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Hey folks!

Put together a Chaos Soup brew recently for a competitive tournament, and something I realized might be possible; bringing more than 3 Relics to a battle. Normally you can bring one, and every Faction has a Stratagem that lets you bring another Relic for 1 Command Point, or two Relics for 3 Command Points. However, I realized that these Stratagems specify which Relic list they allow you to take Relics from, and the Stratagems themselves all have different names. As such, would it be possible in a Soup list to bring 1 Relic from your base allotment, plus 2 from a Faction for 3 Command Points, plus another 2 from another Faction for another 3 Command Points? This would apply to the 1 or 3 cost stratagems for each faction.

My thinking is yes, you can, and I can't see anything that would say otherwise.

This won't affect my list, as there is only 1 relic I want between three factions anyways, but was something I hadn't considered as being possible, so I just wanted to confirm.

You are correct. Your only limits are how many factions strategies are available to you and how many CPs you want to spend.

From the Codex Death Guard FAQ:

Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death Guard Character?

A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.

Yes you can have a lot of relics.

I think Chaos max out at 9 (10 on a technicality)

Imperium can probably get a lot more .

Min/max on relics, if you take 2 cheap Astra Militarum brigades for CP (600 or so points each), I would think it's possible to get 2 reilcs for every Imperium faction that has a codex. Other detachments would be Patrol, with possibly an Auxiliary Support or two with spare CP.

So I hypothesise in a 2000pt game you could could have 13 or so relics with an Imperial Soup army.

Stux wrote:
Min/max on relics, if you take 2 cheap Astra Militarum brigades for CP (600 or so points each), I would think it's possible to get 2 reilcs for every Imperium faction that has a codex. Other detachments would be Patrol, with possibly an Auxiliary Support or two with spare CP.

So I hypothesise in a 2000pt game you could could have 13 or so relics with an Imperial Soup army.

The issue with that would be the 3 detachment (soft) limit.

You can't use the Relic Stratagem once per detachment, you can only use it once, period.

Even if you have 30 Astra Copywritum detachments, you can only have a maximum of 3 Astra Copywritum relics, 1 free via warlord and 2 via the stratagem.

You can do this, though in most cases it probably isn't a terribly effective way to spend command points.

Don't the entries for Relic state that you can only use a factions relics if they're led by a Warlord from that faction? Seeing as you can only have 1 Warlord, I can't work out how you'd have access to multiple relic lists.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Don't the entries for Relic state that you can only use a factions relics if they're led by a Warlord from that faction? Seeing as you can only have 1 Warlord, I can't work out how you'd have access to multiple relic lists.

Read the FAQ posted above (specifically the Death Guard FAQ).

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Don't the entries for Relic state that you can only use a factions relics if they're led by a Warlord from that faction? Seeing as you can only have 1 Warlord, I can't work out how you'd have access to multiple relic lists.

Read the FAQ posted above (specifically the Death Guard FAQ).

The FAQ specifically mentions Strategems. While yes there is a strategem that lets you take multiple relics, I'd be inclined to say you're still bound by the limitation of needing a Warlord from your faction. Additionally, such Relic Strategems say you can take an extra Chapter Relic for 1CP, you can't take an extra one if you couldn't take the first one anyway.

 Valkyrie wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Don't the entries for Relic state that you can only use a factions relics if they're led by a Warlord from that faction? Seeing as you can only have 1 Warlord, I can't work out how you'd have access to multiple relic lists.

Read the FAQ posted above (specifically the Death Guard FAQ).

The FAQ specifically mentions Strategems. While yes there is a strategem that lets you take multiple relics, I'd be inclined to say you're still bound by the limitation of needing a Warlord from your faction. Additionally, such Relic Strategems say you can take an extra Chapter Relic for 1CP, you can't take an extra one if you couldn't take the first one anyway.

It says if my army is led by a CSM Warlord may I use the DG stratagem to add a relic to a DG character and the answer is yes. It is literally saying you may use the stratagem to purchase a relic for a detachment that does not include your warlord.

To be clear:

Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death Guard Character?

A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.

CSM warlord
Death Guard Character uses stratagem to get relic
Relic is gained for a non WL detachment.

 Valkyrie wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Don't the entries for Relic state that you can only use a factions relics if they're led by a Warlord from that faction? Seeing as you can only have 1 Warlord, I can't work out how you'd have access to multiple relic lists.

Read the FAQ posted above (specifically the Death Guard FAQ).

The FAQ specifically mentions Strategems. While yes there is a strategem that lets you take multiple relics, I'd be inclined to say you're still bound by the limitation of needing a Warlord from your faction. Additionally, such Relic Strategems say you can take an extra Chapter Relic for 1CP, you can't take an extra one if you couldn't take the first one anyway.

That flies in the face of the Death Guard FAQ answer, however.

 Valkyrie wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Don't the entries for Relic state that you can only use a factions relics if they're led by a Warlord from that faction? Seeing as you can only have 1 Warlord, I can't work out how you'd have access to multiple relic lists.

Read the FAQ posted above (specifically the Death Guard FAQ).

The FAQ specifically mentions Strategems. While yes there is a strategem that lets you take multiple relics, I'd be inclined to say you're still bound by the limitation of needing a Warlord from your faction. Additionally, such Relic Strategems say you can take an extra Chapter Relic for 1CP, you can't take an extra one if you couldn't take the first one anyway.

Max relics you may take (CP permitting):

1 free from your Warlord's faction (Faction A)
2 extra from your Warlord's faction (Faction A) via the Faction A strategem
2 from the faction of your second detachment (Faction B) via the Faction B strategem
2 from the faction of the third detachment (Faction C) via the Faction C strategem

TOTAL: 7

This presupposes that all three detachments are different factions and that each detachment is a pure faction detachment (which is required to unlock the faction-specific strategems and relics).

 Cadian16th wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Don't the entries for Relic state that you can only use a factions relics if they're led by a Warlord from that faction? Seeing as you can only have 1 Warlord, I can't work out how you'd have access to multiple relic lists.

Read the FAQ posted above (specifically the Death Guard FAQ).

The FAQ specifically mentions Strategems. While yes there is a strategem that lets you take multiple relics, I'd be inclined to say you're still bound by the limitation of needing a Warlord from your faction. Additionally, such Relic Strategems say you can take an extra Chapter Relic for 1CP, you can't take an extra one if you couldn't take the first one anyway.

Max relics you may take (CP permitting):

1 free from your Warlord's faction (Faction A)
2 extra from your Warlord's faction (Faction A) via the Faction A strategem
2 from the faction of your second detachment (Faction B) via the Faction B strategem
2 from the faction of the third detachment (Faction C) via the Faction C strategem

TOTAL: 7

This presupposes that all three detachments are different factions and that each detachment is a pure faction detachment (which is required to unlock the faction-specific strategems and relics).

Why are you limiting yourself to three detachments?

 Ghaz wrote:
Why are you limiting yourself to three detachments?

Because of the Recommended Limit to Detachments for Matched Play at 1,001-2,000 points, which 99% of games will follow.

You mean the suggestion for 'Organised Events' (i.e., tournaments)? It's nothing more than that and definitely not a hard and fast rule (they even tell you to be free to modify these guidelines to better suit your event’s own needs, schedule, etc.).

 Ghaz wrote:
You mean the suggestion for 'Organised Events' (i.e., tournaments)? It's nothing more than that and definitely not a hard and fast rule (they even tell you to be free to modify these guidelines to better suit your event’s own needs, schedule, etc.).

Hence my first post referring to it as a (soft) limit. But if nearly every tournament adheres to that restriction, it's fairly safe to base any answers on these forums on the same.

Have you polled all of these tournaments to see if they follow this 'suggestion'?

 Ghaz wrote:
Have you polled all of these tournaments to see if they follow this 'suggestion'?

Anecdotal evidence to be sure but I've not played in any tournament in my significant travels that didn't operate on the 3 detachment limit. Its a fairy practical assumption to operate with unless your specific event states they're using a different set of rules.

 Ghaz wrote:
Have you polled all of these tournaments to see if they follow this 'suggestion'?

ITC, LVO, BAO, Nova, Adepticon, and GW Official tournaments all follow the "suggestion". Most events follow at least one of these formats and therefore limit armies to 3 detachments.

However, this is off-topic to the original question. My response was based on the (not absurd) presumption that the tournament will have a three detachment limit. If you have a tournament that does not follow this restriction (an outlier), my response does not apply.

A local store is having a 1,000 point tournament. Your number would be wrong if they were to follow the 'suggestion' in the rulebook. However you look at it, your answer is based on an assumption that may not always be in use and therefore your answer is wrong when your assumption is wrong. The only correct answer is that in a Matched Play game you can have three relics from the codex that your Warlord is from, plus two relics from each additional codex that has a detachment in the army, assuming you have the required Command Points to use the required stratagems. This also does not take into consideration any relics that special characters may come with.

 Ghaz wrote:
A local store is having a 1,000 point tournament. Your number would be wrong if they were to follow the 'suggestion' in the rulebook. However you look at it, your answer is based on an assumption that may not always be in use and therefore your answer is wrong when your assumption is wrong. The only correct answer is that in a Matched Play game you can have three relics from the codex that your Warlord is from, plus two relics from each additional codex that has a detachment in the army, assuming you have the required Command Points to use the required stratagems. This also does not take into consideration any relics that special characters may come with.

You picked a super weird line in the sand to defend on this one, especially given that it has 0 relevance to the actual question.

How does giving the answer to the question asked in the original post have no relevance?

 Ghaz wrote:
How does giving the answer to the question asked in the original post have no relevance?

His question was - can I take multiple relics in multiple detachments using CP. The answer is yes, you for whatever reason decided to take issue with a post illustrating the max number of relics in a 3 detachment list.

No, I took issue with someone saying you could only take a total of seven relics because he's making an assumption that you can only take three detachments. That assumption is false because not everyone uses the 'suggested' number of detachments and not everyone plays between 1,001-2,000 points.

Which is exactly why I said you picked a weird line in the sand. Whatever hill you want to die on man.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
You can't use the Relic Stratagem once per detachment, you can only use it once, period.

Even if you have 30 Astra Copywritum detachments, you can only have a maximum of 3 Astra Copywritum relics, 1 free via warlord and 2 via the stratagem.

Bit late getting back to this, but my estimate of 13 relics was based on using 6 different Imperium factions. Only the two brigades would be Astra Militarum.

I tried some things in Battlescribe and the best I could manage legally was 11 though, as each faction needs two characters to give the relics to and Grey Knights and Custodes were prohibitively expensive to do this. Other marines get Tech Marines who are super cheap by power armour standards! Once we get Codexes for Sisters/Deathwatch then 13 might be doable though!

To answer your later point, I am also of course assuming no limit on number of detachments. You say 99% of games use the limit, but it has yet to come up in any game for me. From my POV it's purely a tournament thing, which clearly this list is not!

Stux wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
You can't use the Relic Stratagem once per detachment, you can only use it once, period.

Even if you have 30 Astra Copywritum detachments, you can only have a maximum of 3 Astra Copywritum relics, 1 free via warlord and 2 via the stratagem.

Bit late getting back to this, but my estimate of 13 relics was based on using 6 different Imperium factions. Only the two brigades would be Astra Militarum.

I tried some things in Battlescribe and the best I could manage legally was 11 though, as each faction needs two characters to give the relics to and Grey Knights and Custodes were prohibitively expensive to do this. Other marines get Tech Marines who are super cheap by power armour standards! Once we get Codexes for Sisters/Deathwatch then 13 might be doable though!

To answer your later point, I am also of course assuming no limit on number of detachments. You say 99% of games use the limit, but it has yet to come up in any game for me. From my POV it's purely a tournament thing, which clearly this list is not!

Yeah this "99% of all games" is but an opinion, and hardly researched!

We never abide by it, tbh.