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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




A buddy plays this list. Hes gone to LVO (top 8) and uses it locally for tourneys. Curious to what people think can beat it? He only didn't win LVO because of a mission, but besides the mission, any army have a good way to beat it?

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Sorcerer (120)
Great Unclean One (340)
- General
- Trait: Pestilent Breath
- Artifact: The Endless Gift
- Lore of Virulence: Favoured Poxes
Rotigus (340)
- Lore of Virulence: Glorious Afflictions
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (120)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
10 x Chaos Knights (320)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
- Gongs
- Icon of Pesti
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
- Gongs
- Icon of Pesti

Balewind Vortex

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/22 14:06:53


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






"How to beat" is a pretty vague question, there are plenty of ways any given list can be beaten even beyond the typical strategy of 'bring something more broken' so are there any specifics you are looking for? Also any insights into how he plays the list?

At any rate I can tell you straight off this person is a very skilled player and that is going to be the biggest obstacle to beating him. The list isn't very gimmicky and has tools to deal with a lot of different situations, combined with a top 8 at LVO tells me he really knows what he's doing.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well I have stormcasts and bloodbound. I haven't gotten a chance to play agaisnt it yet as in the last tourney we were not parred up.

Both of my armies have a big issue with mortal wounds. And his dumps tons of them. From what I saw he gets blades off on the rats and his gaunt summoner is on the balewind vortex casting.

He's very good yea. To me AoS is vastly more balanced as a game then 40k so I'm trying to see what could counter this army and am comming up dry.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Trying to do something with Stormcast or Bloodbound is going to be tough. Your one counter is to run Vanguard Chamber to use skirmishing tactics and have Longstrikes kill the wizards. Birds can run interception really well against his list. Either of the battalions with Longstrikes in them are really strong. Also if you get stuck with first turn it means you can hit both monk units hard before inspiring presence goes off, potentially causing huge casualties with battleshock.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Your friend is Bill Souza if so the list you laid out is a bit different to his LVO list but similar enough to not really change how to play against it.

With SCE his list loses to the best army in the meta running Vanguard wing. You lock him in his side of the board turn 1 and snipe his gaunt summoner and he cant chew through the 30 liberators with 2+ re rollable save fast enough.

With Blood bound gore pilgrims giving +3 to hit on big units of blood letters and or skull reapers will give you insane mortal wound output and ability to churn through his horde. Then use the brazen rune to shut down balewind for at least 1 turn plus your 36" portal should help to shut down spells.

A unit of 20 skull reapers (portal & aspiring) can be putting out around 100 attacks (slightly less due to the special weapons) hitting on 2+ re rollable (for normal daemon weapons) with 3+ doing mortal wounds in addition as long as wound roll isnt a 1. Use blood stoker for charge bonus and re roll wound roll to up this damage output even more. The skull reapers will do 60+ mortal wounds and a bucket load of normal wounds in one swing. Just run them in a long line to connect with his entire frontage and delete multiple units.

His list has a lot of bodies and wounds but it lacks reach outside the balewind and no teleporting so you exploit those aspects. Using buff combo heroes and builds to either lock him in or straight kill everything.

Or if you prefer blood letters 3 * 30 = 810 points again run them in long lines one wave in per turn and theyre doing 60 attacks hitting mortal wound on 2+ throw in crimson crown to then do additional attacks on 2+ and delete his entire frontage in 1 or 2 unit swings.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






If you run a 20-man skullreaper unit in one long line and hit him all at once you either got very lucky or he deserves to lose for being so tactically inept as to let that happen. Such a thing will almost never be a viable strategy because of how easily and effectively it can be countered with proper tactics. In fact, spamming mortal wounds in general isn't going to be the best strategy against this list since the vast majority of it has poor saves or no saves at all. Throwing wave after wave of marauders/bloodreavers would be better than that, just from making him lose more points than you before valuable stuff goes in.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




It was more an example of the total damage output possibility rather than what will necessarily happen. Although obviously if you force your opponent to camp in multiple screens it lessens their units effectiveness as well.

A more general comers list as I was mentioning at the end using blood letters could be.
Gore Pilgrims - 180
Bloodsecrator - 120 (Brazen Rune)
Priest - 100 (+1hit)
Priest - 100 (+1hit)
Priest - 100 (+1hit)
10 Blood warriors - 200
40 reavers - 240 (axes)
40 reavers - 240 (axes)
------
Aspiring Death Bringer - 80 (General violent urgency)
Bloodstoker - 80 (Talisman of burning blood)
30 Bloodletters - 270
30 Bloodletters - 270
1980 - 193 wounds - 5 drops

This list gives you wave after wave with a massive wound count and board control. Even the reavers can be a real threat stacking up to 4 attacks each 2+ to hit re rolling 1s to wound and -1 rend.

You may want to juggle a few things round to get a second bloodsecrator in case the gore pilgrim one gets sniped.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/25 19:24:59


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Yeah using the brazen rune (and potentially blood tithe) to cancel his horde-killing spell that list would work well.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

I’m lost; how is he allying in a Gaunt Summoner? I thought Nurgle couldn’t ally with Tzeentch StD and had no alliance with DoT? The GS that is Everchosen has the bravery killing spell. Not the horde killing one. What am I missing?

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




 timetowaste85 wrote:
I’m lost; how is he allying in a Gaunt Summoner? I thought Nurgle couldn’t ally with Tzeentch StD and had no alliance with DoT? The GS that is Everchosen has the bravery killing spell. Not the horde killing one. What am I missing?


The way it works is due to the keyword. The DoT listed gaunt summoner still has the Everchosen keyword so he can be taken as Everchosen allies. Its the same way you can include say Archaon in a Khorne army even though hes listed under Everchosen he has the Khorne keyword (works the same for loads of slave to darkness units as well). Dont worry so much about which group the warscroll is listed under in the Generals Handbook its what keywords the warscroll has.
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

Gotcha. I didn’t realize that one counted as everchosen too. Whoops. Still...man. The idea of including a Tzeentch model in a Nurgle army is wrong. Ew!! Ha.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Well in the conventional sense yes and it's something I would regard as not very sporting, BUT this is competitive AoS so it's pretty much cheese or lose. I know my tourney army doesn't even hit the table outside them (or practice for).

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




RParker wrote:
Your friend is Bill Souza if so the list you laid out is a bit different to his LVO list but similar enough to not really change how to play against it.

With SCE his list loses to the best army in the meta running Vanguard wing. You lock him in his side of the board turn 1 and snipe his gaunt summoner and he cant chew through the 30 liberators with 2+ re rollable save fast enough.

With Blood bound gore pilgrims giving +3 to hit on big units of blood letters and or skull reapers will give you insane mortal wound output and ability to churn through his horde. Then use the brazen rune to shut down balewind for at least 1 turn plus your 36" portal should help to shut down spells.

A unit of 20 skull reapers (portal & aspiring) can be putting out around 100 attacks (slightly less due to the special weapons) hitting on 2+ re rollable (for normal daemon weapons) with 3+ doing mortal wounds in addition as long as wound roll isnt a 1. Use blood stoker for charge bonus and re roll wound roll to up this damage output even more. The skull reapers will do 60+ mortal wounds and a bucket load of normal wounds in one swing. Just run them in a long line to connect with his entire frontage and delete multiple units.

His list has a lot of bodies and wounds but it lacks reach outside the balewind and no teleporting so you exploit those aspects. Using buff combo heroes and builds to either lock him in or straight kill everything.

Or if you prefer blood letters 3 * 30 = 810 points again run them in long lines one wave in per turn and theyre doing 60 attacks hitting mortal wound on 2+ throw in crimson crown to then do additional attacks on 2+ and delete his entire frontage in 1 or 2 unit swings.


Yea he is That was his list for local tourney a few weeks back. Looks like I need 60 more blood reavers! I'll have to build that up for next tourney and see. Thanks for the tips! I forgot about the stacking of +1s to proc mortal wounds

Do you have a stormcast list also?
   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






I could give you "the" skaven list that dishes out 32 mortal wounds per shooting phase if you roll 1s for all your damage and an average of 62 mortal would if you roll statistically average.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

Ow! That sounds EVIL!!

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






I run skryrefyre for tournaments, it's not particularly stronger against this list than it would be against anything else, because with all those marauders and plague monks he will easily be able to bubble-wrap all the important targets sufficiently to protect them. It would basically come down to who played the better game. Of course this is assuming skryrefyre didn't go second and get double turn because then it just wins and there's very little anyone can do about that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/28 18:35:13


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Storm fiends and engine covens to null deploy and just cause maham

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I run skryrefyre for tournaments, it's not particularly stronger against this list than it would be against anything else, because with all those marauders and plague monks he will easily be able to bubble-wrap all the important targets sufficiently to protect them. It would basically come down to who played the better game. Of course this is assuming skryrefyre didn't go second and get double turn because then it just wins and there's very little anyone can do about that.


I’m curious now... I’m not exactly a big tournament goer, so what is this list and why is it so awesome?
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Warpfire weapons are powerful shooting--they literally just pick a target and roll to see how many mortal wounds they do. On a stormfiend the warpfire weapon option does 2d3, per stormfiend, meaning a unit of 3 will shoot an average of 12 mortal wounds. And for skryre they are battleline. They are a stong unit with any of their various weapon loadouts but with warpfire they are downright OP. The only weakness for their warpfire (and the warpfire weapon teams) is that the shooting is only 8" range. The Clan Skryre battalion gets around that by using the Gautfyre Skorch enginecoven (enginecovens are like mini sub-battalions that are compenents of the larger one).

Goutfyre skorch lets the component units deep strike onto the map in your hero phase, the only restriction being that you place a specific weapon team down first and each unit has to be within 8" of it (meaning the back end of one model in the unit). There is no minimum range restriction at all, only a penalty of d6 mortal wounds if a unit drops in within 3" of an opponent. And this is the hero phase so they are free to be buffed by spells or abilities (including from the wizard that is part of the enginecoven). Then they get to move, shoot, charge, and fight with no penalty whatsoever. This means even a gryph hound is no defense since they can simply come in more than 10" away, move 6" and shoot 8". Now even as strong as it is the battalion that lets you do it is 300 points to balance it out, but that does not account for the raw OP of the stormfiends themselves.

Now the average mortal wound numbers backspace hacker aren't realistic between overkill and an ideal list not going all-in for mortal wound potential, but it isn't so much the number of them that gets thrown out its that those mortal wounds get to go wherever you want them to with little to no chance of failure. Consider that something like 20-25 mortal wounds will easily wipe out every single non-monster character in an army with just one shooting phase. And since the skryrefyre army is one-drop and most of it is off the board at the start of the game they are probably going second, giving the opponent no ability to stop them beyond appropriate bubble-wrapping (difficult because no minimum range) while getting a 50/50 chance of basically losing outright if skryrefyre gets a double turn as does all that shooting AGAIN before the opponent even gets to react. In all my games I've only lost two where I got a double turn like that, both due to tremendously stupid errors on my part. If I'm doing practice games outside of an actual tournament I will just give my opponent turn choice round two simply because I have nothing to gain from practicing round 1-2 double turn since the match has already been handed to me. It's one of the reasons I am really opppsed to random initiative.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/28 23:17:55


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Wow that’s pretty offensive... kinda takes the fun out of it all I’d imagine! Thanks for the rundown though!
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





4 hellcannons! my answer for everything. Which works at least half the time, every other time I try it.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
Wow that’s pretty offensive... kinda takes the fun out of it all I’d imagine! Thanks for the rundown though!
Which is why I never run it outside of tournament/tournament practice, because normally I just want to have fun games. But at a tournament the goal is to win so ensuring my opponent has a fun time comes secondary to that. It doesn't mean I'm impolite or have any false pretense over how ridiculously gimmicky my list is, but it does mean that I've had a lot of games my opponents unfortunately didn't enjoy much. Thankfully the worst ones tend to be over quick.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/29 03:43:31


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






To clarify, the 32 mortal wounds i used was if you roll low for all forms of mortal wounds, this includes spells, and the warp fire throwers, not just the storm fiends, im referring to a list taht runs iirc 9 storm fiends.

It is though absolutely a busted list. The worst part about it is, and this is a rules problem on GWs part, there is no real way to counter it. Like because you can shoot over units, they are almost always going to flame on your synergy units with out question. And whats worse is that storm fiends in combat, are actually pretty damn good too, they hit on 4s wound on 3s do 2 damage at -1 iirc. And then they can still flame on. Worse is they can null deploy so even if you dont get first turn, your enemy cant do anything because there is nothing on the board.

Its not a fun list at all, the only time i play against it is for the lulz or just to show someone how busted you can make a list in AoS.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Oh you can counter it, especially if the skryre player went all-in on mortal wounds and didn't round out the list with anti-horde (hint: if you have 9 stormfiends and all of them have warpfire you're over-investing). It's just that 2/3 the armies at a tournament simply wont be able to. Go outside of tournaments and that becomes even higher.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
 
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