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No Method of Death Stratagem with Out-Of-Phase Soulburst  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut









Explanation: This one is a fun one, and a classic example of what happens when "out-of-phase" interactions get FUBARed.

Suppose you have an an allied Dark Eldar detachment, to unlock Stratagems for a Ynnari detachment. Said Ynnari detachment has a unit of Reaver Jetbikes, which destroys an enemy unit in melee, then pops Soulburst to destroy another unit through shooting, and then uses the listed Stratagem. Alternately, a unit uses Soulburst in the Shooting Phase to destroy an enemy unit in melee, then pops the Stratagem.

RAW, "shooting as it is the shooting phase" is ambiguously defined. A conservative ruling (must actually be in said phase) versus an open ruling ("as if" means "for all intents and purposes") is going to be subjective. Muddying things, the Tyranid Stratagem Opportunistic Advance is used "in the Movement Phase," but was FAQed to work with the Swarmlord and the Overrun stratagem, both which let you move "as if it were the Movement Phase," despite being respectively used in the Shooting and Assault phases.

The questions raised this Stratagem combined with Soulburst are:
-Does acting as if it was another phase universally mean you can use Stratagems from said phase?
-Does acting as if in another phase mean you are acting like you are no longer in the phase you are actually in?
-Depending on the answers to the first two, what would the actual steps be? I actually am confused as to how this one is supposed to play out.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





We'll have to see what the rest of the Drukhari codex says. You might not be able to have a unit in the Ynarri detachment also be CULT OF STRIFE. If not, you don't have to worry about this being used with Soulburst.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Ynnari can't use Dark Eldar stratagems per Chapter Approved 2017.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







 DarknessEternal wrote:
Ynnari can't use Dark Eldar stratagems per Chapter Approved 2017.


Citation?
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 MagicJuggler wrote:
 DarknessEternal wrote:
Ynnari can't use Dark Eldar stratagems per Chapter Approved 2017.


Citation?


It says

Designer's Note: The following rules cannot be used by any units in a detachment that contains units with the Ynnari keyword


In Chapter Approved 2017 (per his citation).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Found it. However, that only applies to Warlord Traits and Chapter Approved Relics. This stratagem is from the Codex, which presumably will override said restrictions.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





It applies to the "following rules" of which stratagems are among them.

And when you actually have a codex that overrides this, feel free to bring the question back up. Until then, Ynnari can't use that stratagem, so there's no question to debate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/31 04:55:22


"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 DarknessEternal wrote:
It applies to the "following rules" of which stratagems are among them.

And when you actually have a codex that overrides this, feel free to bring the question back up. Until then, Ynnari can't use that stratagem, so there's no question to debate.
The stratagem in question is FROM the Dark Eldar codex.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Yup. It's funny nobody has really bothered trying to resolve this order of operations...
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 MagicJuggler wrote:
Yup. It's funny nobody has really bothered trying to resolve this order of operations...


I imagine its because it isn't compelling in any way to figure out. Its such a specific rules interaction that I just can't find the energy to attempt to piece together the specifics of it. It triggers from SfD and then a 3 CP Stratagem and who knows when or even if I'll ever see the interaction.
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut





-Does acting as if it was another phase universally mean you can use Stratagems from said phase?
-Does acting as if in another phase mean you are acting like you are no longer in the phase you are actually in?


No to both. If a unit can shoot as if it were the shooting phase it does not make the current phase the shooting phase.

That being said, I really don't see what you are confused about, sorry. Maybe you can rephrase your question?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ynnari can't be cult of strife.

They can never use this so it's not a rules issue.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Ushtarador wrote:

-Does acting as if it was another phase universally mean you can use Stratagems from said phase?
-Does acting as if in another phase mean you are acting like you are no longer in the phase you are actually in?


No to both. If a unit can shoot as if it were the shooting phase it does not make the current phase the shooting phase.

That being said, I really don't see what you are confused about, sorry. Maybe you can rephrase your question?


Pic related explains the issue: Previous faqs imply that "as if" allows for corresponding stratagem use (all 3 Tyranid examples let you "move as though it were the movement phase" ), and Soulburst lets you "shoot as if it is the Shooting Phase."
[Thumb - GWDoneGoofed.jpg]

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/04/03 12:07:50


 
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




I see. I still don't understand which question you want YMDC to answer though, maybe you can make an example ^^ do you want to know if you can kill a unit in melee, then use Strength from Death to shoot and use the Stratagem to shoot again?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/03 15:45:36


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Correct. "What phase am I in?"

Incidentally, the FAQs confirm that Ynnari with DE Stratagems are legal. Enjoy.
   
 
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