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I have a whole bunch of marines on sprues that are ready to be turned into night lords. I was a modeller/painter/collector before I recently started playing and as such, I am biased toward variety. Already having a bunch of bolter maines, I am wondering if the bolt pistol/chainsword marines arfe any good on the table. I play Night Lords, so my legion trait only works within 6 inches. I am guessing probably not, as they will not be as cost effective as cultists nor as brutal as bezerekers but maybe someone has a different view?

Use Raptors and a couple squads of Warp Talons, CSM are too slow.

As a counterpoint, a bare bones CSM squad is only a few points more expensive than a cultist squad. If you place it in cover then you get a 2+ save as well. They can be a sturdy back line unit that's just hard enough to shift that an opponent has to devout something serious to the unit. If they're firing at you CSMs then something else is not taking those hits.

How is being a few more points (several, actually) a selling point?

The regular Chaos Marine entry needs to be deleted and Chosen should've been the troop choice from the get-go. The basic profile is useless to the army


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How is being a few more points (several, actually) a selling point?

The regular Chaos Marine entry needs to be deleted and Chosen should've been the troop choice from the get-go. The basic profile is useless to the army.

I think bolters is a better choice as a back line unit.

I wouldn't call nearly 3 times the cost a few more points when comparing CSM to Cultists. That is part of the issue with CSM. I don't think they bring nearly 3 times the quality compared to that quantity of Cultists (quantity has a quality all its own and all that). The weight of fire cultists can put out make up for their weak firepower. A good babysitter (such as the Dark Apostle) makes their Leadership irrelevant (Especially Black Legion). I don't like those facts as I always say, "I want to play a CSM army not a Chaos Cultist one." But that is how things work right now.

At the same time, I wouldn't necessarily want Chosen as a CSM replacement either as they aren't much better than regular CSM with extra weapon options which are likely going to make them 50% more expensive once outfitted. Sure Chosen have a better leadership and more Attacks, but there are ways to make up the leadership and extra attacks aren't useful to a more ranged focus squad. I wouldn't complain if Chosen were moved from Elite to Troop as there should be more troop options available.

I think that is big issue right now. Chaff troops like Cultists are pretty cheap and basic elites like Chosen (or Fallen if you don't care about the no ride or legion rules) are kinda expensive to field in large numbers like you would as basic infantry troops. The basic Chaos Marine leans too heavy on points for what you get as an intermediate step between the two.

As for the OP, I don't have a lot of experience with 40K yet least of all 8th edition. However, I don't think Bolt Pistol and Chainsword CSM are as good as Boltgun ones which, as mentioned, aren't great to begin with for what they cost. You could use them as Chosen (more Attacks) and put them into a Rhino they might get some work done, although; mechanically you would probably be better served using Khorne Berserkers or Raptors at that point.

No matter what direction you go with them, one of better strategies is to use them to force your opponent split fire to deal with them instead of your good heavy hitters.

Unfortunately, basic CSM are pretty lackluster.

For troops you’re better off with cultists and anything you’d want the basic CSM to do, another unit can do much better.

Backline Support? Havocs
Assault blob? Berzerkers or Warp Talons

But as long as they’re different enough, there’s no reason you couldn’t use those Bolpistol/chainsword marines as Berzerkers if you’re wanting to use them

The question was Bolt Pistol / Chainsword instead of Bolters, not please tell me your gripe about CSMs.

The Chainsword gives an extra attack, the pistol lets you shoot in close combat. While I would normally be all for this, they have to be in close combat for them to matter.

It's hard to get CSMs into close combat. Sure, you can use a Rhino, and sure, they could hop on that Land Raider you were planning to bring regardless.

But... why go to all that trouble? You're playing Night Lords. You must have some Raptors in your list already, they will be able to get into close combat on their own.

The reason you take a Bolter on a CSM is rapid fire 1 at 24 inches. You will probably also take a heavy weapon, like a Lascannon, which you will use from a distance to increase wounds on units facing morale checks thanks to your Raptors. You want to defend that Lascannon, and you can do so more effectively with guns that operate at range.

So Bolters. Not pistols, not chainswords.

Hmmm, Thanks guys. I do have raptors and warp talons, of course, but I seem to have a lot of 30k Night Lords stuff. I don't know how well they can be converted to bezerkers, though, as they are a bit too clean for being a unity fallen to a chaos god... I will have a think