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I've been working on this for a while so I guess I should post this here. Singles tournament in May is using ITC Champion's Missions.

I know a Dark Talon or three would be good. Maybe I'll get one i dunno.

This is a Battalion detachment and an Outrider detachment. With Azrael that's 8 Command Points.

looks nasty... i have run similar with great results.

Question i have .. given its ITC would you be better off going 9 Bikes to prevent Reaper ? Although its just one .. maybe it doesnt matter but it should also give you points for Plasma Inceptors .. or do you find the Assault bolter versions better ?

BTW... if the new FAQ does do a 0-3 restriction ill have 3 nicely painted up DTs ill need to unload if your interested


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw .. opinions on Aggressors ?

You didn’t buy enough assault bolters for the inceptors. 6 would really cost 270 pts I think. Also you have all the support choices for your hellblasters. I would move things around and take the full 10 man squad.

Flinnyflinn wrote:
You didn’t buy enough assault bolters for the inceptors. 6 would really cost 270 pts I think. Also you have all the support choices for your hellblasters. I would move things around and take the full 10 man squad.

his Inceptor cost is good.

Sorry I read it as 6 inceptors. Not 6 autobolters. My bad. Still get to 10 hellblasters though.

 zedsdead wrote:

btw .. opinions on Aggressors ?

Aggressors gain more standing next to Azrael than any other unit.

Removed the Inceptors post FAQ. Added four bikes to create space for Black Knights.

 axisofentropy wrote:

 zedsdead wrote:

btw .. opinions on Aggressors ?

Aggressors gain more standing next to Azrael than any other unit.

But they have limited threat range? I find aggressors having hard time against units adhering to the rule of 24". Not sure what you mean by aggressors benefit the most from azrael.

The list doesn't really synegize that well. If youre going RW-GW combo, the RW will really benefit from long range support. Currently, you have nearly 1/8 of your list (aggressors) doing something your bikes already do, if not better. You'll get more mileage out of a plas-dev w/ cherub than your aggressors (reroll 1's from grim resolve, +1D from WftDA) if your plan is to park it next to azrael the whole game. Add a chapter ancient and an apothecary, and try to roll for that 1's on your plasma shots - this will proc the ancient's ability and lets you unload another d3 shots before removing the model, which in your subsequent turn you will revive with the apothecary.

Just my two cents.

I have an ancient in the army. Azrael and the primaris park in the middle of the table, which racks up points in ITC Champion's missions. The 4++ protects primaris from multi damage weapons that so often have high AP, so it's more valuable on them than other units.

May I suggest the following revision?

+ HQ +

Azrael [9 PL, 180pts]

Lieutenants [4 PL, 63pts]
. Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

Ravenwing Talonmaster [9 PL, 188pts]: Shroud of Heroes
. Land Speeder: Twin assault cannon, Twin heavy bolter
. Talonmaster: Power sword

Sammael on Corvex [10 PL, 183pts]

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]: 4x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]: 4x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]: 4x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

+ Elites +

Apothecary [3 PL, 55pts]

Apothecary [3 PL, 55pts]

Chapter Ancient [5 PL, 85pts]: Bolt pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Ravenwing Bike Squad [9 PL, 112pts]
. Ravenwing Biker: Bolt pistol
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun
. Ravenwing Biker: Bolt pistol
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun
. Ravenwing Biker: Bolt pistol
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun
. Ravenwing Sergeant: Power maul
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun

Ravenwing Black Knights [23 PL, 460pts]: 9x Ravenwing Black Knight
. Ravenwing Huntmaster: Corvus Hammer
. . Black Knight Bike: Plasma Talon

Ravenwing Darkshroud [7 PL, 138pts]: Heavy bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Devastators [8 PL, 154pts]: Armorium Cherub
. 4x Space Marine (Plasma Cannon): 4x Plasma cannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Devastators [8 PL, 154pts]: Armorium Cherub
. 4x Space Marine (Plasma Cannon): 4x Plasma cannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

++ Total: [110 PL, 1992pts] ++

Rationale is that the primary recipient of WftDA is going to be your RBK squad and not your hellblasters. I've proxied in primaris in my lists before - just not a believer of 2W makes marines tougher in 8th. Also, ancient/apothecary combo works better on devs as when you have a 2W model with 1 point of damage, you can't revive dead models as youre forced to heal the 1W. The list suggested uses dedicated apothecaries per unit of dev's so you can revive a model from each unit. This list also nets you 1 more CP.

Edit - plasmas kill aggressors just as easy as it kills devs. That +1 T only protects you from massed bolter shots, which many oppoents keep it at 24" instead of trying to double tap within range of aggressors should the bolters fail to kill the aggressors.

Why Corvex and not Sableclaw? I think he would do a lot more damage than two extra scouts and a combi flamer.

tedurur wrote:
Why Corvex and not Sableclaw? I think he would do a lot more damage than two extra scouts and a combi flamer.

Scouts are screens. They're not renown for their kill potential. Scouts should be positionedin a way that deep strikers can't deep strike into double tap range of your azrael deathstar. the 33 pts can be spend else where much better.

With limited CP's, you really can't afford to spent it on potshot hellfire rounds etc. Each turn your CP usage priority should be: WftDA, SotR, Command RR, HtC. The firat two is a must every turn, so you're looking at anywhere from 2 to 6 CP spent per turn, with chance for refund via Brilliant Strategist of 2 to 4 CP's.

As for Sammael, I feel that Sableclaw doesn't really justify the increase in costs - I like to keep him cheap and use for the rerolls to hit.

 skchsan wrote:

tedurur wrote:
Why Corvex and not Sableclaw? I think he would do a lot more damage than two extra scouts and a combi flamer.

Scouts are screens. They're not renown for their kill potential. Scouts should be positionedin a way that deep strikers can't deep strike into double tap range of your azrael deathstar. the 33 pts can be spend else where much better.

With limited CP's, you really can't afford to spent it on potshot hellfire rounds etc. Each turn your CP usage priority should be: WftDA, SotR, Command RR, HtC. The firat two is a must every turn, so you're looking at anywhere from 2 to 6 CP spent per turn, with chance for refund via Brilliant Strategist of 2 to 4 CP's.

As for Sammael, I feel that Sableclaw doesn't really justify the increase in costs - I like to keep him cheap and use for the rerolls to hit.

I think you misunderstood. I'm saying that I think that he would be much better of upgrading Sammael instead of the scouts. Right now he has a combi-flamer and 2 additional scouts. They will not really achieve much. Upgrading the TL SB and PC to a TLAC and TLHB will do much more damage and and on top of that he gets increased movement and wounds. I dont see why you would only want to use him for re-rolls. He has 18 shots with the Sableclaw...