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Hello all,

I know a wargaming forum isn't the obvious choice for a post like this but I figured there's a huge number of Americans on here so I'll be able to get some good advice.

My girlfriend and I are off to the States at the end of May, and I was hoping I could get some advice from you all about things to do and some general queries. We're flying into San Francisco for a few days, driving down to Los Angeles for a week, then a few days in Vegas. I'm hoping for some answers to the following queries:

1: While we're there we hope to make the most of it. We want to do the typical touristy things, like Alcatraz, Golden Gate Bridge, the USS Iowa just to name a few. Any other attractions that would definitely be worth going to.

2: There'll be a fair bit of driving between the three cities. We both have full UK licenses, will this be an issue anywhere at all? Also I'd imagine the roads are rather monotonous, is this the case or are there opportunities to stop and do stuff? Any other driving things I should be aware of, besides driving on the wrong side?

3: I was originally going to go to the US in 2015 but had to cancel, and one of the things I really wanted to do was to try a gun range. Are they that common along the West Coast? Any particular ones that Dakka's gun enthusiasts can recommend?

4: How much should I expect to pay for a decent hotel? Nothing too fancy or expensive, but something similar to a Holiday Inn or Travelodge we have in the UK.

5: Any other advice or etiquette I should expect or follow while I'm there?

6: We're also hoping to go to the Grand Canyon, although I've heard the Skywalk they have is criminally expensive. Is this the case and if so, are there other areas we can explore that won't break the bank?

Thanks in advance for your advice guys.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Hello all,

I know a wargaming forum isn't the obvious choice for a post like this but I figured there's a huge number of Americans on here so I'll be able to get some good advice.

My girlfriend and I are off to the States at the end of May, and I was hoping I could get some advice from you all about things to do and some general queries. We're flying into San Francisco for a few days, driving down to Los Angeles for a week, then a few days in Vegas. I'm hoping for some answers to the following queries:

1: While we're there we hope to make the most of it. We want to do the typical touristy things, like Alcatraz, Golden Gate Bridge, the USS Iowa just to name a few. Any other attractions that would definitely be worth going to.

Be aware that at least in southern CA and LV, it is likely it will be very hot and very bright. Whatever activities you plan, keep that in mind. More than anything, seek out some excellent mexican food if you havent had it before, try a Carne Asada burrito and definitely seek out some good fish tacos.

I suspect you will find SF and LV to be the more interesting and fun places than LA. There's Disneyland if you are into that, but it will almost certainly be crowded, expensive, and very hot.

If you can get down to San Diego, I would strongly recommend Balboa Park over almost anything in LA.

2: There'll be a fair bit of driving between the three cities. We both have full UK licenses, will this be an issue anywhere at all? Also I'd imagine the roads are rather monotonous, is this the case or are there opportunities to stop and do stuff? Any other driving things I should be aware of, besides driving on the wrong side?

Avoid the CA central valley if you can. Ive made that drive more times than I can count. Its a boring and ugly drive, and nobody likes Bakersfield. That said, its also the fastest route between SF and LA. Theres lots of stuff...just not much terribly interesting for a tourist that I can think of.

3: I was originally going to go to the US in 2015 but had to cancel, and one of the things I really wanted to do was to try a gun range. Are they that common along the West Coast? Any particular ones that Dakka's gun enthusiasts can recommend?

If you're hitting Vegas and really want to do gun things, there is all sorts of stuff there oriented around firearms tourism, including places like Battlefield Vegas and others that will allow you to rent and shoot almost anything that doesnt explode, including things like belt fed machineguns, but also more mundane stuff like handguns. CA will be dramatically more restrictive in what you have available to shoot, and ranges will generally be something of a pain to get to as they wont be near any tourist areas and a lot will be member only. I know there are ranges in the LA/SF areas, but I dont know them well, if you get down to San Diego however there are two great public ones in the Poway area right next to each other (Poway Weapons and Gear is the 3rd largest indoor range in the country).

4: How much should I expect to pay for a decent hotel? Nothing too fancy or expensive, but something similar to a Holiday Inn or Travelodge we have in the UK.

$80-180 a night depending on where, it can vary a lot in just a few blocks.

1. Fisherman's Wharf is a very touristy place with some very entertaining hobos. Ghiradelli Square is worth a visit. If you like action films, Lombard street is where they filmed the iconic car chase from Steve McQueen's Bullitt. Maybe try to view a protest or March if you have the chance--they can get crazy.

What part of LA will you be near?

Vegas is Vegas. You should probably buy tickets to any shows you want to see well in advance, and make reservations for all the great restaurants you want to visit. I don't know if it has changed much since the 2000's, but Vegas was a wonderful place to walk around and people watch through the wee hours of the night.

2. The fastest way to drive from SF to LA is to head east and take the 5. Don't do that. Take the 101 south. There are lots of beautiful places to stop along the coast, amazing sights, and a much more fun drive. There are almost too many roadside attractions to name. Traffic will become an issue during rush hour, but on a vacation you can wait it out someplace charming.

Time your drive to Vegas to avoid traffic. When we would drive there late at night, we'd always look for the 187 marker. I don't know why they labeled the patch of highway one Murder-Death-Kill away from Vegas, but it sure sets a tone for the drive.

3. There is at least one excellent gun range in Vegas. It's not cheap, but you get an opportunity to shoot almost any kind of gun you could want. I don't remember their name, but their ads used to say, "I shot a machine gun in Las Vegas"...and they probably don't say that now. Call ahead before you go, because the wait time was ridiculous. California has gun ranges, but they are harder to find and don't have pink assault rifles.

4. It depends on where you stay. In SF, likely a couple hundred per night. In someplace like Santa Maria on the 101, more like $100 to $130. In LA? Where in LA? In Vegas? How close to the Strip do you want to be?

5. See the tipping thread. Some phrases that seem fine to you will be horribly insulting to others, so try to be laid back about cultural misunderstandings. Also, people will try to ask you about politics, religion or your homeland's culture. This is almost certainly a trap. Talk about Star Wars instead. Er, wait.

6. The Grand Canyon is humongous, and you will need to drive for hours just to see a small part of it. The area to the south with the Hopi House and all the museums and information centers is a decent place to start, but it's nowhere near the Skywalk. It might help to decide ahead of time what tiny fraction of the Grand Canyon you two actually want to see. Also, the temperature will be excruciatingly hot on a summer day and freezing windy at night, so come prepared. Bring lots of water.

Be aware that traffic around LA varies between tolerable and horrific. So plan for an extended drive time in that area.

Hit up the north side of the Grand Canyon. Less expensive, less people, just as amazing. It's really a sight to see, highly recommend it.

If you make it down to the San Diego area there is the zoo and the safari park (other zoo) both are great. Sea World... Eh IMO it's worth passing over for other things. At Ease Games is a sight to see for wargamers

At Eases new location is awesome (their old one on poway road was...cramped). Though I guess their "new" location is 4 years old now...i feel old

I know of a range close to Vegas that's let's you blow stuff up. I'll try to find the name later after work. But it's an outdoor range so will be hot.

Also I've been to Battlefield Vegas, and although I had already shot most of the weapons they have, my wife hadn't. She had fun. I definitely recommend it.

Hey, native Southern Californian here. Here's some tips if you want to go to LA:

1. It will be hot. While May/June isn't the peak of SoCal heat it will likely be in the mid 90's. Dress accordingly.

2. Avoid Disneyland if you can. It's overcrowded and overpriced. Really the regions biggest tourist trap.

3. I recommend Universal Studios and Six Flags Magic Mountain. They're both pretty decent theme parks especially Universal if you're after the "Hollywood" experience.

4. The Hollywood sign is a lot smaller in person than it appears in promotional material.

5. The Mexican and Sushi restaurants around here are delicious. While my realm of knowledge is more specific to the northern parts of LA county consult some travel guides.

6. Rent a car. Yes, the traffic will suck. It's still faster than public transit and safer than taking a bike around especially if you want to visit the interesting parts of the city. LA county is huuuuge and the tourist-y spots are all over the place. Metro LA has terrible bus service and it probably won't even take it you where you want to go. Also, study the freeway paths ahead of time so you don't get lost. Some of the interchanges are just plain insane and it's hard to tell whether or not you will wind up on the same freeway you started out on when you enter one.

7. I highly recommend taking some hikes out in the local mountains around here. They're quite beautiful if you're into Mediterranean landscapes. Just take some precautions for the rare instances of running into mountain lions.

8. LA County Zoo, Galileo observatory and the La Brea tar pits are pretty neat places to visit at least once. Go check them out.

9. There are some pretty decent game shops around the LA county region too. Though I've never visited it myself I've heard good things about Game Empire in Pasadena.

10. As for etiquette in my experience people here in LA are polite if somewhat indifferent towards others but this changes when they get behind the wheel. Some of the drivers around here are flying rodent gak crazy and if you dare obey the speed limit they will ride your bumper as if there were free heroin on it. Hell, I've been speeding and gotten tail gated because I wasn't speeding fast enough for these Mad Max wannabes. Overall, I'd suggest you keep your head cool and try to ignore the tailgaters as they'll just go around you. Don't ever expect people to go the speed limit because in my experience no one ever does except when the cops are around. Generally 5 MPH above is what what most people do but a lot of folks go 7-10 MPH. While I obviously won't recommend that a tourist break the law I'll just suggest keeping pace with traffic and sticking to the right lanes. You should be fine doing that.

11. Another thing to note is that California is one of the few states in the union that allows motorcycles to pass between lanes. The polite thing to do is to give them room but this isn't really expected. Keep steady in your lane and you should avoid problems with the bikers.

12. Bicyclists can sometimes be found riding on the roads and they are allowed to be there. This is kind of rare in my experience because, well, LA traffic can be scary. at times. Most of the time they will stick to the bike lanes or the sidewalk. This is different in other parts of California so be prepared.


Overall, LA isn't a bad place to visit as long as you don't buy into the hype Hollywood likes to generate about the city. It's not really that interesting a place to visit but if you avoid the really high profile tourist attractions you should have a good time. There is a good variety of cuisines in the cuisines but be wary of going to just any mexican place as some are pretty terrible.

The shooting range I mentioned earlier is called Pro Gun Club. They have a website also if you want to check them out ahead of time.

Mexican (though really it's tex-mex) and sushi places are really good down here in SD as well. In regards to Mexican specifically it's worth asking locals what's good. Because there are a LOT of Mexican places. If in LA there's a place called Pinks Hot Dogs that's delicious and entirely reasonable on price. Also second that LA Brea tar pits are a great spot, really cool stuff and not too crowded.

To my understanding Game Empire pasedena doesn't specialize in wargames (though it does have plenty) but rather spreads into a lot of board games and old electronic games. Just what I've heard though.

And unlike At Ease it doesn't have a bar

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
To my understanding Game Empire pasedena doesn't specialize in wargames (though it does have plenty) but rather spreads into a lot of board games and old electronic games. Just what I've heard though.

Sorta accurate. Game Empire Pasadena is my LGS. Their sales floor is about 50/50 wargames and board games. The video game section is no longer there and was revamped to carry more wargames (Flames of War currently). They also have a wonderful used section that is fun to pick through.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
And unlike At Ease it doesn't have a bar

Across the street is a British Pub - Lucky Baldwins! Good food and drinks there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Follow up recommendation for the LA Arboretum if you want a nice nature hike/picnic. The arboretum has wonderful trails to walk, beautiful grounds with ponds, flora of all types, and animals walking around including peacocks. The peacocks are allowed to wander the grounds and the surrounding neighborhoods, so be careful driving in.

http://www.arboretum.org/

Plus it is only a few miles east of Game Empire Pasadena, too, so you could easily fit both in on one day.

The Huntington Library is also a great spot. Wonderful museums, gardens, and it is also in Pasadena, so you could get your game fix on too.

http://www.huntington.org/

Thanks for all the great replies guys, really appreciate it

In terms of LA, I'm not sure exactly where we'd be but possibly around the Long Beach area. As much as you all say it's not worth it, I'm afraid Disneyland is happening for sure. Disney is to my girlfriend what 40k is to me so no chance of avoiding it, at least they'll have a bar or two I'm sure.

La Brea Tar Pits completely skipped my mind, thanks for that

You have my condolences. On the bright side Disneyland isn't that bad it's just the crowds that really kill it. The rides are actually quite good and the food is delicious but prepared to wait in looooong lines for it all.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
You have my condolences. On the bright side Disneyland isn't that bad it's just the crowds that really kill it. The rides are actually quite good and the food is delicious but prepared to wait in looooong lines for it all.

It was pretty much the same at Tokyo Disneyland, just expecting a lotmore waiting with the LA one.

 Vaktathi wrote:
If you're hitting Vegas and really want to do gun things, there is all sorts of stuff there oriented around firearms tourism, including places like Battlefield Vegas and others that will allow you to rent and shoot almost anything that doesnt explode, including things like belt fed machineguns, but also more mundane stuff like handguns. CA will be dramatically more restrictive in what you have available to shoot, and ranges will generally be something of a pain to get to as they wont be near any tourist areas and a lot will be member only. I know there are ranges in the LA/SF areas, but I dont know them well, if you get down to San Diego however there are two great public ones in the Poway area right next to each other (Poway Weapons and Gear is the 3rd largest indoor range in the country).

Back when I spent too much time in the US than is healthy (in Norco, of all places) I used to visit a range in Corona to keep myself current.

They didn't have the CZ-75 I used to shoot at the time for rental, but in the end I found a member who had one and would let me use it whenever I went over. It was huge (but then again everything in the US looks huge from this side) and the owner was called Mike.

Not that I advise visiting Corona or Norco unless you're forced to, though.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Thanks for all the great replies guys, really appreciate it

In terms of LA, I'm not sure exactly where we'd be but possibly around the Long Beach area. As much as you all say it's not worth it, I'm afraid Disneyland is happening for sure. Disney is to my girlfriend what 40k is to me so no chance of avoiding it, at least they'll have a bar or two I'm sure.

La Brea Tar Pits completely skipped my mind, thanks for that

There are bars in Disney and Downtown Disney. Unless they've really revamped it, California Adventure is a total waste of time. Not too far away from Disneyland is Knott's Berry Farm (my favorite amusement park) and Medieval Times. In Long Beach, there's the Aquarium of the Pacific, whale watching tours, the Queen Mary and the convention center. Between Long Beach and Anaheim, it seems like there's always some nerdy convention going on. Also, there are a lot of great beaches in California, with excellent surfing and those weird beach sports, like spikeball and Foot Volley. If you want to spend a day at the beach, you can get a fire pit and roast hotdogs, burgers, spinach and marshmallows. There are tide pools in some places, too.

If you are going to Pasadena, I second the Huntington Library Gardens. Game Empire is just a few blocks north of it, so you can cap your day there.

If you enjoy nature, there are plenty of places to visit along the coast. Check out a travel guide before you drive. The mountains, forests and deserts north of LA are spectacular.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, and in SF visit Chinatown. However, Oakland has a more authentic Chinatown, so if you want to see old women screaming at each other in Cantonese while attempting murder with their carts full of pork buns, that is where the real action is.

Oooh yeah seconding Knott's Berry Farm and Medieval Times. Both are pretty great attractions for not too much money.

Disneyland isn't the worst place to end up.

Here's some things to think about:

1) For Las Vegas, consider going out to Valley of Fire or Red Rock Canyon. VoF is like walking on Mars, Red Rock Canyon is a great place to go horseback riding. It is a lot cheaper than the strip.

2) In LA, make sure you hit Santa Monica. The Getty Art Museum is worth going to. For eats, find a local Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles. It's legendary.

3) In SF, you are going to be spoiled for places to go. I suggest going to Chinatown and finding a restaurant without too many Caucasians. Tell them to bring you everything.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Oooh yeah seconding Knott's Berry Farm and Medieval Times. Both are pretty great attractions for not too much money.

Indeed. Amazing places without the crowds of Disney parks. Though Disneyland is a fun place to go and I would recommend it.

Disneyland is better if you can go when school is in session. Slightly less crowds that way. So if you are here in May you'll probably have fewer crowds since most schools are in session till late may/early june, assuming you do NOT go on Memorial day weekend when it will be packed.

Make sure to look for coupons online. For example, Medieval Times' normal ticket price is $60 per person, but you should be able to get in for $35ish per person with a little digging.

If your into pro sports you could catch a LA dodgers, LA Angles, SF giants, or Oakland A’s baseball game in may. Tickets can be found fore baseball at a reasonable price... the nba and NHL are in the playoffs so top dollar for those tickets if the home teams are still around in may.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Disneyland isn't the worst place to end up.

Here's some things to think about:

1) For Las Vegas, consider going out to Valley of Fire or Red Rock Canyon. VoF is like walking on Mars, Red Rock Canyon is a great place to go horseback riding. It is a lot cheaper than the strip.

2) In LA, make sure you hit Santa Monica. The Getty Art Museum is worth going to. For eats, find a local Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles. It's legendary.

3) In SF, you are going to be spoiled for places to go. I suggest going to Chinatown and finding a restaurant without too many Caucasians. Tell them to bring you everything.

Go to Venice Beach. It's the me a of people watching.

Thank you all again for the information

One day in Yosemite Valley. This place is magical.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Make sure to look for coupons online. For example, Medieval Times' normal ticket price is $60 per person, but you should be able to get in for $35ish per person with a little digging.

This is a good suggestion. Check out websites like Groupon prior to your trip for deals on activities you are planning in the area.

I think it was 2015 when I was in the Bay area for military training, possibly 2014. What I remember most vividly about that time was buying some Transformers from Toys R Us and finding out that plastic grocery bags had been made illegal. Just for random things like that it'd be worth doing a quick sweep of local laws and statutes that you may have to plan around. No bags seems kind of mundane, but when the option is paying almost what you paid for one of your toys for a fabric bag you won't use again, I can think of other words to describe it.

 Just Tony wrote:
I think it was 2015 when I was in the Bay area for military training, possibly 2014. What I remember most vividly about that time was buying some Transformers from Toys R Us and finding out that plastic grocery bags had been made illegal. Just for random things like that it'd be worth doing a quick sweep of local laws and statutes that you may have to plan around. No bags seems kind of mundane, but when the option is paying almost what you paid for one of your toys for a fabric bag you won't use again, I can think of other words to describe it.

Or pay literally 10 cents for a paper one. If you're going to bad talk my state make sure it's true first.

In the rest of the state you can buy plastic bags for 10 cents each (although most checkers will spot you a bag or two), and they are far better quality than the old free plastic bags.

The TRU I went to didn't have those. It was the stupid $5 bags. I didn't have enough stuff to justify the bag tax, so I simply carried all my stuff in my arms to the vehicle my battle buddy was driving. Half priced books had no options at all for bags, but I stopped going off post for stuff and eliminated the problem.


I didn't bad talk California, I simply pointed out what my experience was. I could have also pointed out my experience dealing with the endangered species out there, but I doubt he's going to be interacting with those while on his exploits.

Another question.....sales tax.

I was well confused when I went to MA back in 1994. See, some counties (I may have crossed States. This was a very long time ago!) included Sales Tax in the price tag. Others don't.

Where is a good place to find out what's what on that sort of thing? Just generally, not CA specifically.

 Just Tony wrote:
The TRU I went to didn't have those. It was the stupid $5 bags. I didn't have enough stuff to justify the bag tax, so I simply carried all my stuff in my arms to the vehicle my battle buddy was driving. Half priced books had no options at all for bags, but I stopped going off post for stuff and eliminated the problem.


I didn't bad talk California, I simply pointed out what my experience was. I could have also pointed out my experience dealing with the endangered species out there, but I doubt he's going to be interacting with those while on his exploits.

Either you had supremely bad luck or you were dealing with donkey-caves.

However, I will say that the law against free bags has had some of the impact it was designed for. Most people now seem to keep some of those reusable canvas bags and a wad of the plastic ones in their car trunk to use whenever they go shopping, rather than just throwing them away like they used to. As social engineering it was annoying yet effective.