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2018/04/13 22:44:22
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Issodon, as many know, can put some units in what is effectively deep strike for free.
It reads, and I quote:
Master of Ambush: During deployment, you can set up Lias Issodon and up to three friendsly RAPTORS IINFANTRY units (not including TERMINATORS, CENTURIONS or PRIMARIS units) in the shadows instead of placing them on the battlefield. At the end of any of your Movement phases, Lias Issodon and any accompanying units can reveal themselves on the battlefield - set them up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from enemy models.
The way this is played is important, becasue it affects two things, a) who finishes deploying first, as you probably want to be gong first if you're using the Issodon bomb, and b) how much of your army is in reserves, as 50% must start the game on the board.
It seems to me this could be interpreted two ways.
a) You declare Lias will be going into 'the shadows' (effectively deep strike) using his master of ambush ability. Then your opponent deploys a unit, as is done after a unit is placed in DS. Then you declare another unit will join Issodon using his ability, and back and forth until you've gone through your four free DS units.
b) You declare Issodon and three units will be coming in from 'the shadows' using his master of ambush ability. You select his "accompanying units" at the same time you select him, and they all go into 'the shadows' as one.
The issue comes because setting up using this ability is different to all the other deep strikes. Each unit is individually set up in DS, and arrives as an individual unit as and when the player decides. But here, the accompanying units have to come in at the same time as Issodon, and since it'd be pretty stupid to use this on units that can already DS, you've got a bunch of units that would not normally DS coming in this way. Unlike the 'Strike From the Shadows' stratagem, however, the units being given DS are not being given it on an individual basis. They're being given it by Issodon so they can come in with him.
Which leads me to believe they have to be declared as the accompanying units alongside Issodon during deployment.
Which means they're only one drop in terms of deciding who's finished first, but it still isn't clear where it stands regarding the 50% rule.
How would you interpret it?
Edit: just realised this belongs in YMDC, could a mod please move it?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/15 17:11:21
 iGuy91 wrote:You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
 Elbows wrote:You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures... 
the_scotsman wrote:Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
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2018/04/14 00:10:24
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Norn Queen
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I would say option A. All it does is give you an alternative deployment, it's not like Trygon Tunnels, which explicitly say "at the same time".
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/14 00:10:28
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2018/04/14 01:04:21
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I so wish this worked on Primaris. 
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2018/04/14 13:48:21
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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It's option b. It's the same as units in a transport all being deployed at the same time.
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JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
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2018/04/14 14:25:06
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Norn Queen
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 Eihnlazer wrote:It's option b. It's the same as units in a transport all being deployed at the same time.
It literally isn't. Compare it to the Trygon rule.
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2018/04/14 16:26:21
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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It’s option B, so one drop, but each unit will count as one unit not on the board for purposes of the 50% Matched play rule.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/14 16:27:41
 Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2018/04/15 09:53:34
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Option a, multiple drops and counts for multiple of course for the 50% rule.
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2018/04/15 10:54:38
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It's ambiguous. As it doesn't explicitly say they are one drop, i'd stick to the most normal approach, which is option A.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/15 13:19:24
DFTT |
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2018/04/15 11:04:47
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Nothing allows you to treat them as one drop, so you cannot. It just gives you a place to set them up that isn't the battlefield.
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2018/04/15 14:28:28
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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No you actually set them up with issodon, at the exact same time, using his special ability.
They aren't just being allowed to deploy separately in infiltrate.
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JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
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2018/04/15 15:55:21
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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You can setup all the units as a deployment choice, but it is 1+how ever many up to 3 units you setup that are placed in tactical reserves for the 50% max
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2018/04/15 16:33:53
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Eihnlazer wrote:No you actually set them up with issodon, at the exact same time, using his special ability.
They aren't just being allowed to deploy separately in infiltrate.
Agreed. Wording is so similar to Tallarns Ambush etc.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2018/04/15 17:11:00
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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 JohnnyHell wrote: Eihnlazer wrote:No you actually set them up with issodon, at the exact same time, using his special ability.
They aren't just being allowed to deploy separately in infiltrate.
Agreed. Wording is so similar to Tallarns Ambush etc.
So you're saying they only appear together during the game, during deployment they count as separate drops?
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iGuy91 wrote:You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
Elbows wrote:You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote:Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
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2018/04/15 18:10:02
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Is there a reason or faq that people think the tallarn strat is one drop? It doesn't say that.
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DFTT |
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2018/04/15 21:12:05
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Lord of the Fleet
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I've always played him as when deploying, Lias and his cronies are one drop, but they count individually towards the 50% rule.
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2018/04/15 21:21:54
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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 CREEEEEEEEED wrote: JohnnyHell wrote: Eihnlazer wrote:No you actually set them up with issodon, at the exact same time, using his special ability.
They aren't just being allowed to deploy separately in infiltrate.
Agreed. Wording is so similar to Tallarns Ambush etc.
So you're saying they only appear together during the game, during deployment they count as separate drops?
No, I'm not. I'm saying they count as one deployment 'drop' with Issodon, and count as however many units they are for 50% rule. Automatically Appended Next Post: Captyn_Bob wrote:Is there a reason or faq that people think the tallarn strat is one drop? It doesn't say that.
It's similar wording, and we've always interpreteted that as play the Strat = choose up to 3 units in one 'drop' to ambush later via the Strat. Exact same logic as with the ability being discussed in this thread.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/15 21:23:14
Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2018/04/16 16:31:33
Subject: How many drops does an Issodon bomb use?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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JohnnyHell wrote: Eihnlazer wrote:No you actually set them up with issodon, at the exact same time, using his special ability.
They aren't just being allowed to deploy separately in infiltrate.
Agreed. Wording is so similar to Tallarns Ambush etc.
Nothing there indicates it's one drop either
It gives up to three other units an option, without indicating it's all at once. You can decide how many in a unit by unit, drop by drop basis.
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