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I'm assembling a Tyranid army and had a question about a couple unit types:

1) Gargoyles

2) Tervigon

I got some Gargoyles in my start collecting box and love the idea of playing a swarm army with tons of cheap units. However, I never see these guys in any lists or battle reports which makes me think they might not be good for the cost. I would also use them with that rule that allows you to re-spawn a unit of gargoyles for 2cp once they are completely dead.

As for the Tervigon, like I said I love the idea of a swarm army so this guy contributes by pumping out units every turn. This also seems like it may be a meme strategy and not actually effective.

Any advice? Thanks

kNyne wrote:
I'm assembling a Tyranid army and had a question about a couple unit types:

1) Gargoyles

2) Tervigon

I got some Gargoyles in my start collecting box and love the idea of playing a swarm army with tons of cheap units. However, I never see these guys in any lists or battle reports which makes me think they might not be good for the cost. I would also use them with that rule that allows you to re-spawn a unit of gargoyles for 2cp once they are completely dead.

As for the Tervigon, like I said I love the idea of a swarm army so this guy contributes by pumping out units every turn. This also seems like it may be a meme strategy and not actually effective.

Any advice? Thanks

Gargoyles get hated on a lot, but I love them. Their biggest use is tying up backfield units in close combat. I like to drop them down with swarmlord, Hive Commander move them over the first line of troops, and charge everything I can.

That stratagem does not work in matched play though unless you pay reinforcement points.

*Edit* just checked FAQ. The Gargoyles are probably useless now. Welp

Why are the useless now? I saw the Winged Hive Tyrant went up 20 points, was that a main part of the gargoyle attack?

Oh, the fact that you can't deploy behind on first turn.

kNyne wrote:
Why are the useless now? I saw the Winged Hive Tyrant went up 20 points, was that a main part of the gargoyle attack?

Oh, the fact that you can't deploy behind on first turn.

More importantly, can't cast Hive Commander on them the turn they drop in from DS. You can still start them on the board and try to move them into position of course, but they're gonna get shot to pieces before you can get in position for the double move + assault.

I think the main complaint about gargoyles is that they fill the same tactical role as hormagaunts. A fast wall of bodies that ties up enemy guns for a round or two.

Hormagaunts are generally seen as being better. I will say though that Kraken gargoyles being able to disengage from combat, jump over a screening unit, and assault whatever they were guarding, is still pretty good.

Ultimately though I think the two units are just too similar

kNyne wrote:

I got some Gargoyles in my start collecting box and love the idea of playing a swarm army with tons of cheap units. However, I never see these guys in any lists or battle reports which makes me think they might not be good for the cost. I would also use them with that rule that allows you to re-spawn a unit of gargoyles for 2cp once they are completely dead.

Biggest issue with Gargoyles is transporting them due to their fiddily wings and flight stems (I have ~50 of the things and keep having to reglue them to their stems...). As far as gameplay goes they sit between Hormagaunts and Termagants as a tarpit that can shoot a bit and fight a bit but does neither role as well as their dedicated counterparts (no Scything Talons/no Devourers). Where they shine is their maneuverability, being able to fly over enemy units and charge them from behind to enable lock downs and being able to traverse rough terrain with impunity. They are fairly good at forward screening roles, since their speed allows them to keep ahead of whatever they are protecting and thanks to fly they can withdraw from combat and still shoot.

The Endless Swarm stratagem does require setting aside points in matched play games, but is fairly useful since the returned unit is set up from any table edge at the end of any of your movement phases (bypasses the Strategic Reserves matched play rule).

Gargoyles work best with Kraken, Leviathan, or Hydra.
- Kraken allows them to charge after withdrawing on top of being able to shoot after withdrawing and makes them faster through the more reliable advance (though due to fly they can't benefit from Kraken's stratagem).
- Leviathan makes them slightly more durable while close to a synapse creature and they are a good enabler for Leviathan's stratagem.
- Hydra likes swarms in general and improves their accuracy in melee. Hydra also gets an enhanced version of Endless Swarm that can respawn any infantry unit, so if you were already planning on setting aside points Hydra offers more utility.

Honorable Mentions:
- Kronos gives them rerolls to hit in shooting, which compliments their horde bonus rerolls to wound while shooting. While they don't like standing still, they are fast enough to get into position to set themselves up for the next turn. Gargoyles also are good enablers of Kronos' stratagem since they can move over screens or deep strike into position.
- Gorgon gives them rerolls to wound in melee, which helps their Blinding Venom ability. Gorgon's main issue is generally delivery, so being able to deep strike themselves coupled with their high speed is appreciated.

kNyne wrote:

As for the Tervigon, like I said I love the idea of a swarm army so this guy contributes by pumping out units every turn. This also seems like it may be a meme strategy and not actually effective.

Tervigons aren't really that great in a swarmy army at all due to their cost (basically 60 Termagants each) and the need for reinforcement points to add new units rather than replenish. Their main utility lies in being able to "transport" Termagants by setting aside the points for them and as a means to maintain screens. The former ability is handy for monster-mash lists since they can keep said Termagants in reserve indefinitely until required (thus preserving threat saturation by leaving anti-infantry guns no good targets) and the latter ability is mainly useful for gunline-style lists that want a screen to hide behind. In either case though they really want to be run in pairs for both saturation and for replenishment purposes (being able to take a depleted 30 strong unit back to near full strength in one go is handy).

"Tervigons aren't really that great in a swarmy army at all due to their cost (basically 60 Termagants each) and the need for reinforcement points to add new units rather than replenish. Their main utility lies in being able to "transport" Termagants by setting aside the points for them and as a means to maintain screens. The former ability is handy for monster-mash lists since they can keep said Termagants in reserve indefinitely until required (thus preserving threat saturation by leaving anti-infantry guns no good targets) and the latter ability is mainly useful for gunline-style lists that want a screen to hide behind. In either case though they really want to be run in pairs for both saturation and for replenishment purposes (being able to take a depleted 30 strong unit back to near full strength in one go is handy)."

Oh, so I think I misunderstood how tervigon works. When it says "Add a new unit of 10 Termagants to your army and set them up..." it means you literally have to pay for these units with points? I thought that you were getting 10 free termagants every turn.

In humty dumty casual games you do not pay for them.

But in any game you ever play you do have to sett aside points before hand if you want to create a new unit. And good is thay. No 7th edition demon spawning demonspawning demons.

While bad for the tervigon that was the 5th edition troop of choise, take comfort in reinforcing groups is free.

kNyne wrote:
Oh, so I think I misunderstood how tervigon works. When it says "Add a new unit of 10 Termagants to your army and set them up..." it means you literally have to pay for these units with points? I thought that you were getting 10 free termagants every turn.

That is how it works in Open Play (Apocalypse games) and Narrative Play (asymmetrical scenarios like Planetstrike or Stronghold Assault), but in Matched Play (1v1 tournament-style games) any abilities that create new units require so-called "reinforcement points". Basically you can set aside a number of points during army construction to use on abilities that create new units. Abilities that replace lost models in existing units (like the second half of Spawn Termagants or Necron Reanimation Protocols) do not require reinforcement points.

I take 12 Gargoyles and some spore mines to fill out a Brigade. They look cool, they’re cheap, and they’re quick. Are they gonna kill much? No. Are they gonna tie something up for a bit and/or cap a hard to reach objective? Yup.

Tervigons are not great. Too expensive and not very dangerous.