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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

So rather late, but after PP decided to remove most of the faction specific sections and general chatter from their own forums I'm wondering where everyone went too after that. Are there any active and big warmachine/hordes communities online without having to delve into the monster that is Facebook? Or has it all sort of fizzled and its down to lurking in general gamer sites and chatting in places like here on Dakka?

A Blog in Miniature - now featuring reviews of many new Black Library books (latest Novellas) 
   
Made in au
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions






http://lormahordes.freeforums.net

is fairly well trafficked.

My $0.02, which since 1992 has rounded to nothing. Take with salt.
Elysian Drop Troops
Dark Angels, 30K
Kaelis Ra
 
   
Made in us
Rogue





I wonder if there has been an uptick in player retention or new player recruitment since the removal of the PP forums? I can't imagine why they would euthanize a community except to further these goals.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Bloviator wrote:
I wonder if there has been an uptick in player retention or new player recruitment since the removal of the PP forums? I can't imagine why they would euthanize a community except to further these goals.


It seemed to largely be a result of the Magic judge lawsuit and the resulting panic over community volunteer programs.
   
Made in us
Manhunter





Huntsville, Texas

Yeah, it was a bit of an odd move. And I understand why they did it, but it still didn't make growing the community easier. Having a Press Ganger or two around made made it easy to get new players introduced to the game, and to find events.

Lormahordes is nice, but it still feels pretty dead there besides a few diehards.
   
Made in us
Rogue





 LunarSol wrote:
 Bloviator wrote:
I wonder if there has been an uptick in player retention or new player recruitment since the removal of the PP forums? I can't imagine why they would euthanize a community except to further these goals.


It seemed to largely be a result of the Magic judge lawsuit and the resulting panic over community volunteer programs.


I understood the motivations for the removal of Press Gangers, even if it was damaging to the community as a whole. Even with an active friend group, however, I'm not sure I would have stuck around playing Warmachine if those forums weren't there.

Warmachine already has huge barriers to entry. Large model count. The need for two armies. The fact that most people don't want to take the time to play battlebox games with newbies. The fact that those who do will usually put said newbies through the same school of hard knocks we all went through. The fact that the Star Wars IP now has multiple competitive game lines sitting on the shelves next to these weird football player robots. You need a PG around to gin up the human factor, someone who can cultivate a welcoming atmosphere in a group of categorically awkward and competitive people.

EDIT: forums also provide a place to go to see what other people are up to. Facebook discussions are lackluster and I, for one, don't participate in discussions in groups that aren't private. I'm not ashamed of my hobby, but it's not something I need the whole wide world to know, either.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 23:52:05


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Central Valley, California

It's doing well in my area do to the dedicated organizers. But considering you cannot sell your stuff for barely dimes on the dollar, the omens aren't good.
Bartertown in the PP area is all Selling: PP W: every other game system under the sun.

I'm not a business man, but I wish PP would of stopped the warmachine bloat years ago and started another really cool, unique minis game that required painting to sell along side it.

Rolling 1's for over four decades

~Shrap  
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider






Not saying it is dead in my area, but I can say it is a lot quieter. Die hard PP players are now seen playing games of X-wing and 40k.

The new edition plus the removal of press gangers seemed to be a "one- two punch" that they where not able to recover from..

Not sure if x-wing will follow this path but it seems less people where upset with the current PP rules release than what I am hearing from x-wing 2.0.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Shrapnelsmile wrote:

I'm not a business man, but I wish PP would of stopped the warmachine bloat years ago and started another really cool, unique minis game that required painting to sell along side it.


Luckily they are!
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

I've been unable to sell the last of my retribution. Ebay auctions ended at no bids at a dollar for $200 retail worth of miniatures. I posted in local facebook group for the game offering them for $40. No takers. Lowered price to $20. Got offered $10 if I dropped them off.

**** that.

I don't know what happened but it seems like all the people who bought in during GW's decline have all left and are now clearing their old collections.

Was it Star Wars Legion? Did Legion finally get people looking at their miniatures on the shelves and get them thinking they could sell that for stormtrooper money?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/07 14:09:11


Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

people may not be willing to purchase lots. COnsider selling piecemeal?

and, what is your ebay tag?

'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!' 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

Shipping from Canada makes that pointless. Everything would end up at full retail if purchased individually.

In the end I just gave them to some local D&D dungeon masters. At least they seemed excited at having some strange miniatures for a unique encounter, so I know they'll see play and be well loved.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Central Valley, California

 frozenwastes wrote:
I've been unable to sell the last of my retribution. Ebay auctions ended at no bids at a dollar for $200 retail worth of miniatures. I posted in local facebook group for the game offering them for $40. No takers. Lowered price to $20. Got offered $10 if I dropped them off.

**** that.

I don't know what happened but it seems like all the people who bought in during GW's decline have all left and are now clearing their old collections.

Was it Star Wars Legion? Did Legion finally get people looking at their miniatures on the shelves and get them thinking they could sell that for stormtrooper money?


This right here regarding not being able to sell stuff. I could not sell SEALED protectorate locallly or on ebay at next to nothing.
Members can mock my thought that privateer bloated this game to hell, but the barrier of entry is overwhelming. I've seen people buy a battle box then go on forums asking the usual, "how to
expand" question, look at 100 unit to choose from, buy a few, get told they "suck now get this intead" and then put it in their closet of shame forever.

I really don't think it's just Legion man. But the star wars game are one of many that PP didn't seem to prepare for. I think it is a combination of GW being more accessible now, and so many wonderful game systems available, including Bolt Action and others specific
to cool genres that have lower starting costs.

I love Warmahordes, but I simply cannot keep up anymore.

Rolling 1's for over four decades

~Shrap  
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

I think you're on to something there. The stuff I had for retribution was not the type of stuff the common game wisdom says is the best. It was just a bit of this and that from the initial retribution release.

I guess when Privateer grew and warmachine spread, GW was giving away their market share. Now that GW isn't doing that and other people in the market like Warlord with their Bolt Action and the endless barrage of kickstarter wargame-board game hybrids, Star Wars X-Wing and Legion, the explosion of 28mm historical plastics, and on and on and it's just a different environment than the one that allowed Warmachine to flourish in the first place.

The only reason I mentioned Legion was there seems to be a flood of stuff for sale, but I guess it's just as likely to be 40k or anything else that's making people look into their closet of shame and want to clear their warmachine stuff out.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Central Valley, California

 frozenwastes wrote:
I think you're on to something there. The stuff I had for retribution was not the type of stuff the common game wisdom says is the best. It was just a bit of this and that from the initial retribution release.

I guess when Privateer grew and warmachine spread, GW was giving away their market share. Now that GW isn't doing that and other people in the market like Warlord with their Bolt Action and the endless barrage of kickstarter wargame-board game hybrids, Star Wars X-Wing and Legion, the explosion of 28mm historical plastics, and on and on and it's just a different environment than the one that allowed Warmachine to flourish in the first place.

The only reason I mentioned Legion was there seems to be a flood of stuff for sale, but I guess it's just as likely to be 40k or anything else that's making people look into their closet of shame and want to clear their warmachine stuff out.


FFG will run legion into the ground I'm sure. But yes, I agree with your observations. Personally, I hope Privateer Press survives this. I really do.

Rolling 1's for over four decades

~Shrap  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I do think PP's biggest challenge is just that a lot of their groundbreaking features like game balance and rules clarity aren't nearly as novel as they used to be. In the wake of MK2, pretty much every game not made by GW (and even GW is finally getting with the times) has taken PP's approach towards consistent wording and mechanical timing resolutions. If I want to play a game I feel could support a tournament, there are a lot more options than there used to be.

Locally our biggest problem is just that no one has picked up the PG torch. I had to cut back after my daughter was born and wasn't able to run nearly as many events, but unfortunately no one else was willing to take my place. Prepping for local tournaments has been a major driving factor for the game for a while and without them I see a lot less time spent on casual play.

It's a shame because in many ways the game is way closer to what I wanted when I first started than its ever been. That said, I haven't played nearly as much as I used to. In part, its because I've been playing for years and newer shines are new and shiny. Also though, its hard to ignore just how hard it is to paint PP stuff. Smaller games make painting really rewarding and let you put in a little more effort on each model to good effect. When I come around to painting PP stuff these days it feels daunting.

I don't know how to fix any of this, but if there's a problem, I think its entirely a matter of the game asking a lot of its players in a time when players have endless options to do other things.
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

Regarding selling Warmahordes, you've really got to know the themes, and what's "good" right now.

If you're selling collections that don't fit a theme, that's low value. Retribution, in particular, has...

Shyeel Jack theme with Battle Mages.

Dawnguard theme, with Jack support, usually Vyre.

Mage Hunter Theme, mostly Strike Force with the odd Infiltrator unit in a weird list. Uses a ton of the good MH solos.

"Houseguard" theme, which is a catch-all for everything else but only gives benefits to Halberdiers and Stormfalls.

So if people are playing a pair of lists, they're only looking for models in those lists, so a big chunk of the models are "exclusive" of one-another.

I imagine the same is true for the other factions.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Central Valley, California

 LunarSol wrote:
I do think PP's biggest challenge is just that a lot of their groundbreaking features like game balance and rules clarity aren't nearly as novel as they used to be. In the wake of MK2, pretty much every game not made by GW (and even GW is finally getting with the times) has taken PP's approach towards consistent wording and mechanical timing resolutions. If I want to play a game I feel could support a tournament, there are a lot more options than there used to be.

Locally our biggest problem is just that no one has picked up the PG torch. I had to cut back after my daughter was born and wasn't able to run nearly as many events, but unfortunately no one else was willing to take my place. Prepping for local tournaments has been a major driving factor for the game for a while and without them I see a lot less time spent on casual play.

It's a shame because in many ways the game is way closer to what I wanted when I first started than its ever been. That said, I haven't played nearly as much as I used to. In part, its because I've been playing for years and newer shines are new and shiny. Also though, its hard to ignore just how hard it is to paint PP stuff. Smaller games make painting really rewarding and let you put in a little more effort on each model to good effect. When I come around to painting PP stuff these days it feels daunting.

I don't know how to fix any of this, but if there's a problem, I think its entirely a matter of the game asking a lot of its players in a time when players have endless options to do other things.


truth and it is such a tournament driven game. The two local press gangers kept going strong after the program was eliminated, which is why we have about 12 players here.

Rolling 1's for over four decades

~Shrap  
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







I spend most of my time trolling around on facebook, mostly
because my friends who chat the game are on facebook and we
have our separate group chat we can go to to discuss topics that
go the rounds on the facebook groups.

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Poxed Plague Monk




san diego

WM is still going in my area, but has definitely waned. I attribute this mostly to the press gang being disbanded as well as the forum closure. I'm on the loremahordes forum but it isn't nearly as active as the old PP forum was.

I understand disbanding the PG even though I see the wholesale abandonment as a mistake. Without people to pick up the torch, WM/H communities have started to centralize around those who are still active in promoting the game. There are communities that are doing well, but from my experience travelling and playing games those communities are on the decline and their membership is still a touch lower than it was prior to the aforementioned potential causes.

Some will argue that the edition change caused people to leave, and it is true that an edition change almost always sees some leave a hobby. In my experience, it has been more of the ethos that the only lists are theme lists that has become mk3 that has disenfranchised more people. It is far too much of a boon to get 15-20 points of free models to play in a theme that playing a less restrictive list is still not enough of an edge to compete. Now you have to weigh buying 2-3 of a specific unit if you want to play in a theme as well as some support elements.

The game seems largely unapproachable from the perspective of the average new player. In general, WM has been one of the more approachable minis games, but this dynamic is really hurting the ability to recruit new players for the long term.

for 40k

skaven for fantasy. for the under empire!........but it isn't a game anymore.

for infinity 
   
Made in us
Hacking Interventor




It's completely dead in my area and I'm sad to see it go was a pretty fun game up until mk3.

For me it was PP attitude towards it's player base, CID, and the main focus on list building through theme forces.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Theme forces really made the game whole again for me, but I get why they're not for everyone.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Central Valley, California

 heckler wrote:
WM is still going in my area, but has definitely waned. I attribute this mostly to the press gang being disbanded as well as the forum closure. I'm on the loremahordes forum but it isn't nearly as active as the old PP forum was.

I understand disbanding the PG even though I see the wholesale abandonment as a mistake. Without people to pick up the torch, WM/H communities have started to centralize around those who are still active in promoting the game. There are communities that are doing well, but from my experience travelling and playing games those communities are on the decline and their membership is still a touch lower than it was prior to the aforementioned potential causes.

Some will argue that the edition change caused people to leave, and it is true that an edition change almost always sees some leave a hobby. In my experience, it has been more of the ethos that the only lists are theme lists that has become mk3 that has disenfranchised more people. It is far too much of a boon to get 15-20 points of free models to play in a theme that playing a less restrictive list is still not enough of an edge to compete. Now you have to weigh buying 2-3 of a specific unit if you want to play in a theme as well as some support elements.

The game seems largely unapproachable from the perspective of the average new player. In general, WM has been one of the more approachable minis games, but this dynamic is really hurting the ability to recruit new players for the long term.


Yes, the themed lists in Age of Sigmar are called, Warscroll Battalions I believe. GW quickly patched this up by having them cost some points (but still cool abilities). PP should consider IMO.

Rolling 1's for over four decades

~Shrap  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





The thing is, themes are intended to be the way the game is played at a competitive level now. It's how PP has chosen to break up their factions into more manageable chunks to design and balance around. Free build lists are essentially paying the ally tax people so desperately clamor for, and its very much an intended design.

I don't think people have caught on to the idea that the factions advertised are actually around now 3-5 sub factions similar to the way Mercenaries worked in MK2. I personally think its great and has done wonders for the game's appearance and sense of playstyle, but the conversation around the game definitely hasn't caught up.
   
Made in gb
Malicious Mandrake





England

One of our PG's has gone crazy over Guild Ball and taken most of the WM players with him. Other PG has had IRL stuff to do so we haven't had much organised and the local club scene has dried up.

For me the big turn offs are themes, price and model quality.


The models are a pain to clean up, and the detail is poor compared to e.g. GW. Looking at the releases GW have put out over the last year PP really seem to be dragging.

A couple of the new Legion releases for example seemed quite bland.

The costs per box seem high. I think I have been spoilt because I picked up a lot of my WM stuff second hand.

Then we have themes...which I never used in MK2. However the pressure to use them seems even greater now.

I liked taking a wide mix of units so buying multiples of the same unit that are expensive and a PITA to assemble doesn't thrill me.

Realising that each faction is now a bunch of mini-factions prompted me to sell off all bar two armies and then focus on one or two themes within those.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Please don’t necro to ask if there’s been any news.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Locally the only game that remotely gives Warmahordes a challenge is X-wing. Far and away the most popular game.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Souleater wrote:

Realising that each faction is now a bunch of mini-factions prompted me to sell off all bar two armies and then focus on one or two themes within those.


That's oddly one of the things I've most enjoyed about MK3. Cutting a bunch of factions and really focusing on a couple that really caught my attention in first place.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





It's weird to see people so against themes. Personally, it fixes one of my major problems with WMH. During Mk2, I found it very difficult to be able to play the models I wanted to play. If I took model A, it was borderline worthless unless I also took model B. I played WMH because of the big robots, but Cryx and Khador were both almost entirely dependent on infantry - I wanted big robots, but I found myself looking at buying multiple boxes of doom reavers and winter guards (neither of which I wanted). With Cryx, there was only one warcaster who apparently had a chance with a jack-heavy army (Mortenebra or something) and even then, it seemed more like a glitch in the matrix rather than a valid army building strategy. Some people enjoy building armies from whatever models are most effective, but I can't get passionate about models I don't love and I don't want to feel overly limited in what I can choose to play. If nothing else, it appears that themes open up the possibility of focusing on groups of related models that I like.

I'm actually buying the Man-O-War theme box coming out (mostly to paint - love the Man-O-War designs), and I might actually try playing again. My complaints against WMH are legion, and themes don't fix most of them, but I can't say that a Man-O-War based army doesn't make me waver.

For the record, most of my WMH complaints are community issues. PP has expensive, mediocre quality models, but WMH's worst enemy is the players. My worst miniature game experience EVER was with WMH, with someone who put together a net list that was almost entirely proxied (this Menoth jack is a Retribution solo, this cavalry model is a jack), unpainted and largely unassembled, that tabled me on the second turn through an absurd combo that just kept going - and it was probably my 6th game of WMH ever. I saw a thread over at Lormahordes about keeping new players interested and it was 11 pages of arguing about why veteran players should dumb down how they play for new players rather than just having them learn through constant, overwhelming, and oppressive failure, and all I could think was, yeah, that's WMH for you.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

Sqor that's the same issue Magic the Gathering has and that has even more insane combos to the point where some are totally unbeatable - you basically win or lose based on the draw of the opponents deck. And yet Magic is utterly huge and seems to retain its population well. Granted a much lower buy-in-cost helps and the game can trickle feed better (even though in the long run you can pay way more than a miniatures game if you are keeping up with the current meta and you don't only buy select cards on ebay).



As for themes I think one aspect might be if the army a person plays has a theme for their desires. Eg Legion apparently hasn't got a "pure beasts" style theme (or at least near pure beasts) which is what drew many to that faction. So a Legion player might feel that the themes are bad because they are not covering a key interest. Meanwhile another player might be perfectly happy because the themes are covering what they want

A Blog in Miniature - now featuring reviews of many new Black Library books (latest Novellas) 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 Overread wrote:

As for themes I think one aspect might be if the army a person plays has a theme for their desires. Eg Legion apparently hasn't got a "pure beasts" style theme (or at least near pure beasts) which is what drew many to that faction. So a Legion player might feel that the themes are bad because they are not covering a key interest. Meanwhile another player might be perfectly happy because the themes are covering what they want


FWIW, Oracles of Annihilation has been Legion's Warbeast theme for over a year now.
   
 
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