Carcharodons Outer Dark - Dreadnought issues

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**Banville**

I'll try and do this without spoilers. Here goes. Anyone else read this and think, 'Hang on. That's not a Contemptor he's describing. That's a Leviathan. Contemptors don't have Siege drills or torso mounted heavy Flamers.'

Surely, such an egregious misnomer couldn't repeatedly escape the editors at Black Library. Say it ain't so.

**Slayer-Fan123**

1. Possibly forgotten tech
2. Dreads CAN get Siege Drills so it isn't out of possibility.

I'll grant ya the Heavy Flamers bit though.

**Tygre**

Possibly an Ironclad Dreadnought.

**Banville**

Definitely not an Ironclad. Consistently termed a Contemptor but with these features. Helmeted head between two hulking shoulders. Claw and Drill for weapons. Heavy Flamers built into torso. Towering. Driven insane. Tortured angry screams instead of saying anything. Everyone is veeeeery reluctant and wary about deploying it.

It's obviously a Leviathan. And the Carcharodons seem to have three of them attached to their third company alone.

Not that it matters that much. It just bugs me when you have such an obvious and easily caught mistake in what was otherwise a very good book.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Maybe they're called Leviathan Contemptors? I dunno.

**BrianDavion**

Possiably a dread configuration that we've not seen before and is not codex?

**Banville**

I think the dread configuration is clearly that of a Leviathan. Just named wrongly. Occam's Razor and all that.

**Coolyo294**

Each and every dreadnought is a relic warmachine of ancient and unique providence. The idea that there's a Contemptor out there with a siege drill and a heavy flamer mounted in its torso doesn't strike me as particularly far-fetched, especially for a chapter like the Carcharodons that frequently operates for centuries on end without contact with other Imperial forces.

**Jape**

Coolyo294 wrote:
Each and every dreadnought is a relic warmachine of ancient and unique providence. The idea that there's a Contemptor out there with a siege drill and a heavy flamer mounted in its torso doesn't strike me as particularly far-fetched, especially for a chapter like the Carcharodons that frequently operates for centuries on end without contact with other Imperial forces.

This is absolutely acceptable headcanon its basically what I told myself when I read it. But yeah its clearly human error on the writer's part. Stuff happens.

**EmpNortonII**

Haven't the Sharks spent 10,000 years in the Void patching up their gear with spit and bailing wire?

They might have used Leviathan parts to patch up the Contemptor.

I kinda wondered why they didn't bust out the Dreads in Red Tithe. Does this book provide an answer?

**Banville**

Yeah. That's the thing. They don't bust them out because they aren't Contemptors. Leviathan dreads drive their pilot insane. And that seems to be the case here. The Sharks are reluctant to release them because it literally means unchaining them and letting them go kill-crazy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Coolyo294 wrote:
Each and every dreadnought is a relic warmachine of ancient and unique providence. The idea that there's a Contemptor out there with a siege drill and a heavy flamer mounted in its torso doesn't strike me as particularly far-fetched, especially for a chapter like the Carcharodons that frequently operates for centuries on end without contact with other Imperial forces.

Actually, the novel sets out that this isn't the case. The Carcharodons have a pretty open back channel with the Mechanicus. To such an extent that, in return for stuff found in the Outer Dark, Mars trades them brand spanking new materiel. So brand spanking new that the stuff is gleaming metal, unpainted, straight off the production line.

**AndrewGPaul**

Banville wrote:
I'll try and do this without spoilers. Here goes. Anyone else read this and think, 'Hang on. That's not a Contemptor he's describing. That's a Leviathan. Contemptors don't have Siege drills or torso mounted heavy Flamers.'

Surely, such an egregious misnomer couldn't repeatedly escape the editors at Black Library. Say it ain't so.

I can't see any good reason that a Contemptor chassis couldn't mount a siege drill. There's always been things in novels that haven't been represented by miniatures.

**beast_gts**

I picked up on the hull flamers too. It's possible Robbie MacNiven intended it to be a Leviathan but someone pointed out you can't drop pod them so he quickly replaced Leviathan with Contemptor.

**Magister**

At the be of the day, a dreadnought is a dreadnought and given the hints regarding the Carcharadons heritage it’s entirely possible it wasn’t the dread chassis that drove the occupant less than sane.

**Banville**

Magister wrote:
"At the be of the day, a dreadnought is a dreadnought and given the hints regarding the Carcharadons heritage it’s entirely possible it wasn’t the dread chassis that drove the occupant less than sane."

They're not, though. There are umpteen variations of dread with umpteen different purposes, chassis and aesthetics. Seriously, read the passage and the description of it. It's definitely a Leviathan but, for whatever reason, it's mislabelled as a Contemptor.

Wand-waving or resorting to headcanon in order to explain stuff, to me, defeats the purpose of buying Black Library novels. Don't get me wrong. I actually love the way Macniven has dropped just the right amount of hints as to the history of the Carcharodons. And I love the mystery of their relationship with the Ashen Claws. I live them because they're welk-crafted and deliberate. The dreadnought thing is just sloppy editing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The above post is a reply to Magister. His original post is the first paragraph of it. My stupid phone/fat fingers are to blame for the quote box.

**Lion of Caliban**

Could just be a simple misunderstanding on the writers part. Plus the books aren't always consistent on what does what. I remember in one book a regular human rolls through a doorway and comes up firing an autocannon. Which rather baffled me.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Lion of Caliban wrote:
Could just be a simple misunderstanding on the writers part. Plus the books aren't always consistent on what does what. I remember in one book a regular human rolls through a doorway and comes up firing an autocannon. Which rather baffled me.

Well they have a 33% chance to hit in 8th doing that so...

**craggy**

Ah, Sergeant Countsas. He was interred in a dreadnought hundreds of years ago, but was well known for breaking the rules even before then.

**Magister**

There are lots of different chassis to be sure, that doesn't mean that (like power armour) they can't have bits swapped in and out. I did read the passage in question and I also read the passages in the previous book and In 'Outer Dark' that describe the anger management problems that some Carcharadon's appear to have. So to me it's feasible that it could happen to a contemptor pilot. However and as you have pointed out, it's likely we buy BL for different reasons - for myself, the author/narrator isn't omnipotent and the novels will have errors, as that's the nature of the historical record.

Anyhoo!

It's a good book and i'd really like them reveal a bit more about the heritage of the Carcharadons (or Chardonnays as autocorrect would have them) for sure!

**Kdash**

So, I completely missed the “torso” heavy flamers, I must have just read it as heavy flamers and presumed they were the weapon arm’s inbuild flamers. Wasn’t too concerned about the whole siege drill arm myself though, as it is likely that those weapon arms exist for the Contemptors. They aren’t currently available in game, but, it doesn’t mean certain Chapters don’t utilise them – another example of this is the Carcharodons using chain axes.

Another thing to note – is that Leviathans can be drop podded (as per 30k anyway).

Certainly gonna go back and re-read this passage later!