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Goals:
-Develop a dynamic system that encourages prediction, tactical planning, and rewarding risk/reward decision making
-Depower alpha-strike while not removing it as a viable strategy
-Encourage usability in a more diverse pool of units and roles
-Create a system of alternating unit activation that does not skew towards MSU or large blob units too heavily.
-Give meaningful mechanical value to power levels, as GW seems more intent on incorporating them into 40k's gameplay
-Develop the above while disturbing core mechanics of 8th edition as little as possible

Changes to The Battle Round
•A battle round begins with ACTIVATION PHASE. In the Activation Phase, each player selects units to activate, noting the units and their combined power levels and keeping this information secret from their opponent. Units may only be chosen to activate if they have not been activated in the same battle round. Units held in reserve count for twice their listed power levels. Units embarked in transports must be chosen to activate at the same time as their respective transport.

•After players have completed their selections, the total power level of the selected units is revealed. The player who chose the lowest value is the winner of the contest, and decides which player gets to take their turn first.

•On a players turn, units chosen to be activated above take part in the Movement, Psychic, Shooting, Charge, and Fight phases. Only activated units may pile in and fight during their respective Fight phase.

•Once a player’s turn has ended, their opponent starts their turn, utilizing the units they chose to activate. Once both players have had a turn, the Activation Phase repeats until no more units remain on either side to be activated. Once no more units remain to be activated, the Morale Phase takes place, then the battle round has been completed, and the next one begins.

Changes to The Morale Phase
•Models slain in a Fight Phase during the battle round count as twice as many when making a Morale test.
•Abilities that limit the amount of models lost to Morale, or negate Morale tests entirely now make models slain over the battle round count as half as many when making Morale tests.

Potential for unit/faction interactions
-"Commander" style units may be given abilities that count the power level of chosen units as lower for the purposes of unit activation. Similarly, some could also be given that count enemy units as being higher (Banshee War Shout, general Dark Eldar hijinx, etc).
-Stratagems could also be made that provide effects similar to the above. Example:

Networked Neural Interface (3CP)
Adeptus Mechanicus Stratagem
Use this stratagem in the Activation phase, after selecting units to activate, but before revealing the total value to your opponent. Select a <FORGE WORLD> Tech Priest Dominus or Belisarius Cawl. Allied <FORGE WORLD> units within 6" of this unit count as being half their normal value for the purposes of unit activation.

Potential problems
-Unit activation may slow down gameplay (although fighting once per battle round might mitigate this)
-Fight Phase once per battle round reduces overall melee damage output, potentially more than new tactical options and increased leadership penalties might incur

Thoughts? I'm really interested this idea myself, and I want to consider trying it out.

Great stuff! I think your goals and suggestions are great.
I decided to quit my lurking and become a member of this forum because of this post, as I'm looking for something like this for a while now. 8th edition needs something and this might be it.
I'm very happy with the elegance of your rules.


We'll be testing your rules* in the near future. (*slightly amended, see below)
As a pretty experienced gamer (24 years of 40k and still going strong) I can't help playtesting your idea's in my mind though.
So I have a few reflections on your proposal that might refine it a bit more

Fight Phase question / suggestion
One thing I don't get is how Fight Phase once per battle round would reduce the overall melee damage output.

The way I 'see' it (maybe I see it wrong) is that you do your activation bid, and they you play a full (sub-)turn with just the units you won your bid with.
Imagining I'm the lucky one with the least PL in my bid, I start my sub-turn.

During my sub-turn I end up with a few units in close combat. So I go fighting.
Next, the opponent can choose to fight back with the surviving models. Or later (as more juicy opponents might be lurking).
The opponents unit can only fight back once in an enemy part of a battleround though (to keep it in synch with the current rules).
So I would suggest keeping a counter ready for both -activation-, and -fighting back- (/counterattack)- (attacking in enemy part of the battleround).

Upon activation a unit can fight as normal in it's fight phase.

This way you have an equal amount of fighting to the current situation (where all the point values are based on).

(Something similar could be applied to Overwatch, but this is less necessary I think (and more complex, as Overwatch can be repeated if Overwatch ends in a failed / vapourized charge).)

Morale and close combat suggestion
I think my main issue with the semi-alternating unit activation is that at the end of the Battle Round, you effectively did your own and your opponents turns in one. Which is great. Except for morale.

Morale is designed to work with a tresh-hold (leadership). By adding up lost models in your own and your opponents turn, you bypass that treshhold.
This will be especially felt for units in combat (as the fighting back usually occurs in the other players turn).
Shooting casualties mostly are happening during the opponents turn (except for Overwatch), so (except for Overwatch) morale due to shooting is less of a problem here.

So I would suggest adding to the morale for units that engaged in combat that turn. Simply add half the units leadership (rounding up) to units that participated in close combat during that battleround (yes, another counter I guess).
Rationalization for this would be the adrenalin rush / combat focus / survival instinct that kicks in when you're head to head with the enemy.


Simple gameplay suggestions
One simple suggestion would be to use Playing Cards (you know, Ace of Spades and the like) as substitutes for your Power Level 'poker' (just note on your armylist which playing card represents which unit).
As playing cards already have the more common Power Level values on them it'll be pretty fast adding them up.

Another suggestion would be to limit the maximum amount of chosen units in your bid to about 50% of your total Power Level, so an 'all or nothing' approach can be sidestepped (one playing bidding a single or a few unit, the other bidding -all- units).

Also one could 'time' the activation phase (you got one minute to decide!!) to speed things up. Makes for realistic combat as well

Lastly, I would suggest a clear way to break ties (both players bidding PL 9 or something, then what?). Usually that would end up rolling off (without CP rerolls!), so we'll go with that.


Anyways, thanx for your post! I hope you enjoyed my reply.

I've been doing some thinking concerning alternating activations as well.

Short rundown:
Player's simply take turns activating a unit (no bidding or anything of that sort, very simple) until every unit has been acitvated. When activated, the unit goes through the phases per usual,
only that the morale phase happens after every unit has been activated and is again, taken in turn by the players.
CHARACTERS have a special ability, to be activated at the same time as another friendly unit within 6" unless they have 10 or more wounds. Some units that belong together,
like grot artillery and their respective crews.. You can (usually) never activate more than two units at a time.
Units arriving per deep-strike are always the last units a player can choose to activate.
The player who finished activating all of his units first, gets to start on the next battle round.


Things that make for tricky situations right now are transports and combats with more than two units involved (not counting characters that have been activated alongside one unit).

So far I have it that the transport and the unit it carries count as one activation while the unit is embarked, embarks or disembarkes from the transport.
Things get complicated when you start piling multiple small units iniside of it, though...

Close combat gets complicated when you have two units trading blows and then a third one charges in. If the assaulted unit survives, does it get to fight back another time?
And is it only allowed to hit the unit that charged or can it hit any target close enough? Though I guess that adds another "tactical" level to the game when you have to consider charging into an established brawl.
Will you be able to annihilate the opposing unit? Or are you running the risk of having pummel your other dudes again?



I've thought about doing the fight phase the way you want to handle it, as well. Having only the unit that is active lash out.
But then, what about units with special abilities like daemonettes and banshees? A general problem your and my solution is, that there is always only one active fight going on,
so player's don't swap back and forth activating units in the fight phase, which in turn makes these 'counts as having charged' abilites useless during the first round of combat.
And unless both units in CC get to strike during one of their activations, these abilities will never be of use.

I've been doing some thinking concerning alternating activations as well.

Short rundown:
Player's simply take turns activating a unit (no bidding or anything of that sort, very simple) until every unit has been acitvated. When activated, the unit goes through the phases per usual,
only that the morale phase happens after every unit has been activated and is again, taken in turn by the players.
CHARACTERS have a special ability, to be activated at the same time as another friendly unit within 6" unless they have 10 or more wounds. Some units that belong together,
like grot artillery and their respective crews.. You can (usually) never activate more than two units at a time.
Units arriving per deep-strike are always the last units a player can choose to activate.
The player who finished activating all of his units first, gets to start on the next battle round.

Things that make for tricky situations right now are transports and combats with more than two units involved (not counting characters that have been activated alongside one unit).

That was the reason I quite liked the clustering / bidding idea. If you group a few units that you think should act together, you can.
They only issue is that it takes a bit more time to organize, so you might end up activating after your opponent.

In a simpler format (like the one Star Wars Legion uses) your initiative is actually directly based on the number of units you are trying to activate.
But I was thinking that Powerlevel is a slightly more precise mechanism. Not sure yet though.
Just number of units has an elegance as well (for one, simplicity). And it puts a bit of a stop to MSU tactics (at least, if you want to act quickly with some good firepower).

In case of a tie, one would still roll off.
Legion has a max of about 3 or 4 units in a single activation, which is pretty elegant as well. Problem in 40k is that you can put a lot more units in a transport if you really want to. So that's not gonna translate under all circumstances.
A Stormlord with 18 Heavy Weapon teams in and 2 Characters in it (8 units) would require 10 activations for all of them to do something.

Slight rule modification: You could add a 'Disembark' option upon Transport activation (making disembarkment from a transport a part of the Transports turn/activation, and not part of the disembarked units turn/activation), so they chose models can be ditched on the spot by a transport upon activation, Models using the transport as a fighting platform / gundeck would be able to activate later, but wouldn't be able to disembark after the Transport already moved.

Close combat gets complicated when you have two units trading blows and then a third one charges in. If the assaulted unit survives, does it get to fight back another time?

Good point. I think this can be resolved within the framework though.
That's the reason I added a 'fight back counter'.
Though I didn't include rules about -when- you can fight back. Didn't think that through completely, to be honest.
That should be : Use fightback any one time during a battle round after you were engaged in close combat by an enemy unit that has been activated this battleround (in normal fight phase order). Note: you can use 'fight back' only once per combined battleround.

This means you can choose to wait fighting back until your opponent piles in more units (even in a later activation, or in your own activation), or you can fight back at once in the current enemy activation (using normal fight phase rules like who strikes first).

So if your opponent activates multiple units in one activation and charges with those at the same unit(s), they are all going to fight (as per normal fight phase rules).

But then, what about units with special abilities like daemonettes and banshees? A general problem your and my solution is, that there is always only one active fight going on,
so player's don't swap back and forth activating units in the fight phase, which in turn makes these 'counts as having charged' abilites useless during the first round of combat.
And unless both units in CC get to strike during one of their activations, these abilities will never be of use.

Also good point
Those special abilities for daemonettes, banshees and any Emperors Children unit, alternate when they are being charged anyways. Starting with the unit who's turn (/activation) it is. So one charging unit strikes first and that's that. If there are more, they alternate.
The effect is a lot more effective in a prolonged combat though.

Rule modification:
Units with this trait always fight first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with,starting with the player whose -activation- is taking place.

So if an activation includes multiple units that charge such a 'lightning reflexes'/'formerly strike first' unit, the rule still has an effect.
And two (or more) units are already locked in combat at the start of an activation in which such units are included, that's the moment these strike first abilities work best. In that case the Daemonettes / Banshees etc. strike first, as per normal fight phase rules.


Example:

A unit of 5 Assault Marines and a 3 model Marine Biker unit charge a unit of 15 Daemonettes (after shooting) during their activation.

The Marine player decides to let the Assault Marines strike first. They roll badly and kill 2 Daemonettes.
As the surviving 13 Daemonettes have their special rule, they can choose to strike back next, and are targeting the Bikers as they have yet to strike. They kill 2 Bikers (sorry, Chaos bias).
After that the surviving Biker can strike the Daemonettes, killing 1.

Note that when the Daemonettes are activated, the Daemonettes can fight (unless they fall back from combat, but why would they).
And they will strike first then as they have their special rule.
If the Assault Marines and Bikers didn't already do a Fight Back that turn (probably not, as they wouldnt have been able to charge if they did, usually), they can hit after the Daemonettes.

So I think those 'strike first' rules still come in handy.

I would take the easy path for that one and just the alternate activation rules from Mantic Warpath or OnePage FireFight and add it to current 40k

Or just use boltaction/beyond the gates of antares. It's litterally made by a designer of old 40k and it's obviously built from the same foundations. It's very easy to cut and paste any BA BTGoA rules directly into 40k.

 Ma'ra'Kaelis wrote:

Problem in 40k is that you can put a lot more units in a transport if you really want to. So that's not gonna translate under all circumstances.
A Stormlord with 18 Heavy Weapon teams in and 2 Characters in it (8 units) would require 10 activations for all of them to do something.

This could be a potential Problem, but since we're working on houserules here, I think this is a problem that can be ignored for the most part. At my local warhammer store I'd be using the official rules (of course) and I tend to only invite friends and potential friends to have a game at my place. And I tend not to attract powergamers that would want to abuse my system.

Slight rule modification: You could add a 'Disembark' option upon Transport activation (making disembarkment from a transport a part of the Transports turn/activation, and not part of the disembarked units turn/activation), so they chose models can be ditched on the spot by a transport upon activation, Models using the transport as a fighting platform / gundeck would be able to activate later, but wouldn't be able to disembark after the Transport already moved.

My idea for transports so far is, having it and its passengers activate at the same time. And they'd always count as two units activated (Which is the usual limit on how many units you may acitvate at the same time). That applies when a unit (or units) stay embarked and the turn they disembark, but not when you activate a unit to embark on a transport. It buffs having multiple units in a Transport, since you get to activate a bunch of them at the same time, but as mentioned above, I do't see it as too much of a problem in a private setting.

Good point. I think this can be resolved within the framework though.
That's the reason I added a 'fight back counter'.
Though I didn't include rules about -when- you can fight back. Didn't think that through completely, to be honest.
That should be : Use fightback any one time during a battle round after you were engaged in close combat by an enemy unit that has been activated this battleround (in normal fight phase order). Note: you can use 'fight back' only once per combined battleround.

This means you can choose to wait fighting back until your opponent piles in more units (even in a later activation, or in your own activation), or you can fight back at once in the current enemy activation (using normal fight phase rules like who strikes first).

So if your opponent activates multiple units in one activation and charges with those at the same unit(s), they are all going to fight (as per normal fight phase rules).

Right now, I have it that every unit can strike back out of activation when it's stuck in close combat. In the case of a one on one, it's still pretty simple and basically the same as now. If I charge with two uUnits, it's the same as well.
Now, if I move a third unit into an existing fight is where it gets interesting.
Should a unit be allowed to strike back every time it is being attacked by an enemy? I'd say yes, but should that unit also be able to strike an any other enemy unit that it is in CC with? For now, I'd say yes to that as well. You would have to consider moving another unit into CC since, if you won't wipe out the enemy, they will have another chance to strike at your other unit.
Which get's me thinking again...should this third unit also be able to strike back? I guess it would be fun to see all kinds of units charging into a big scramble and have them pummel each other over and over again in one turn.

Also good point
Those special abilities for daemonettes, banshees and any Emperors Children unit, alternate when they are being charged anyways. Starting with the unit who's turn (/activation) it is. So one charging unit strikes first and that's that. If there are more, they alternate.
The effect is a lot more effective in a prolonged combat though.

My solution to banshees and the lot right now is, that these units may basically fight back at the same time as the attacker. Removing casualties at the same time. Don't know how it'll work out in the end, but my thought process was, that you should carefully consider charging into such a unit. And that was the best way to emphasize that.



I've also added some other slightly unrelated rules to my document, like always hitting on natural 6's and attacks of opportunity (which is basically overwatch for cc if an enemy unit retreats from the fight),