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Hey guys;

Gonna drop a little something here and wait for the internet to tear me a new A-hole...

So far I've played 10 games of 8th, of which I've won all 10 (totally not a brag I promise )... but I've been experimenting with what I like to call the rhinoback rush....

my core army is a Captain, lieutenant, 4 company veterans, a basic heavy bolter razorback, 3 rhinos, and 30 tactical marines in 6 squads of 5, Combi-Plasma & Plasmagun
the 3 rhinos form up around the razorback and the 4 tanks move as fast as possible into enemy lines.... once within ideal engagement range; 2 tactical squads jump out of each rhino, and with the Captain and lieutentant bubble, put out 8 overcharged plasma rounds per rhino... a total of 24 shots plus bolters, storm bolters, a handful of pistols and the twin heavy bolter....

my enemies tend to focus on Guilliman and the Heavy Weapons I leave in the backfield due to his fierce reputation; and never seem to expect just how hard 30(36) obsec marines hit if left unfocused upon...

it's not game breaking but deals okay with hordes, survives alpha strikes reasonably well, hurts tanks/creatures etc....

what do people think? I beg you though, don't comment unless you're willing to try the list... on paper it seems fairly crappy but it's a real underdog tactic.

just thought I'd share my experience so far?
GamerGuy

Nice, there appears to be quite a bit of board control with the rhinos and msu marine squads. While each on it's own isn't scary, in number I can see them doing some work. 3 rhinos and a razorback will a bit to take out as well so they definitely clog up the board. I pretty much switched to primaris or I'd try it. One day primaris will get a rhino.

I did try a similar list with drop pods. I think transport are underrated. They don't do much themselves, but man are they annoying. Especially funny when there is a pod in front of the enemy army and they can't target guilliman who is a turn from reaching them. "Target the giant man with the flaming sword!", "I can't tell which one that is sir.", "It's literally just him there, behind the empty pod."

ooooh a pod screen for Gman?!? I hadn't thought of that?? instantly worth 100pts?

-though anything assaulting the pod can't be shot at...

This is a list that messes with the enemy target priority, forcing him to either shoot bad targets (rhinos), or distant not so squishy targets, probably in cover.

The long range supports the rush by eliminating the anti tank, then the rhinos unload the payload and the game is sealed.

I don't have any difficulty believing that this list works, but be warned that you will be blasted badly by loads of people telling you that SM suck, transports are useless and that nothing can beat an IG gunline.

Only thing i would argue in your list is Gman. With so few points invested in the long range, is it really worth 400 points to buff them? Wouldn't more threats actually be better? At that point you could switch to another chapter, i think that all of them would be more useful than UM for this list.

While not bringing the numbers you do, I frequently run 5 man Tac squads with Plasma+Combi-Plas in Razorbacks with a Captain and Lt. For a troop squad and generally the lowest on the threat list, they do hit quite hard. But I think the biggest thing is that they -continue- to hit hard all game while your opponent is worrying about your bigger units, while any minor damage that does get thrown their way has to kill 3/5ths of the squad to actually get to the damage dealers.

I usually run them as Raven Guard in Razorbacks alongside shooty Venerable Dreads and KAC Contemptors, with a couple Stormtalons in the air.

It sounds like your running gulliman as a distraction carnifex that is working so hats off for that. I am a fan of the type of list your running, I run one similar except I use a drop pod with 2 of the 5 man squads in it like that and spend the gulliman cost on additional devastators and a predator. For that 400 pts you can get a 9 man dev squad with 4 laz cannons and a predator with an autocannon and side laz cannons, I think it gives more bang for the buck over Guilliman buffing one dev squad.

Still, it's a good, fluffy list. I like it.

I think ultras are a good chapter tactic for this army. The stratagem to hits on tac squads (Scions of Guilliman?) is worth it with so much plasma. They can't all be in range of a character, and you are going to want to overcharge at some point. I would be interested in seeing the whole list. It would be interesting to see what could replace Guilliman if he isn't the focal point.You could probably fit 2 more transports full of dudes. That's 6 transports. Such a pain to deal with.

Sounds like fun little list outside hyper competive tournaments. Bit of worry if you go 2nd and board isn't generous with LOS blocking. How your army would survive if enemy opens up first turn by blowing up 2-3 rhino's? I lose often enough russ + chimera hull(maybe one more of either type) on first turn and doubtful rhino is tougher customer to deal with.

Salamanders are also an awesome tactic for this army, especially on the squads packing meltas. It means you don't even have to worry about having the buffing hqs nearby, as they'll reliably deliver two melta shots most times.

Rhinos, while I think still being objectively overpriced, are typically considered pretty worthless to shoot at, can still be quite annoying to kill, and can be great at tying units up in combat or soaking up overwatch.

I had some reasonable success early this edition with 1-2 of them, and have been thinking about trying out at least 1 in my next list.

Another thing I might try soon is bringing a weird set up for devastators squads: 5 men, a churub, grav cannon, and a combi-plasma. For 113 points it's only sightly more expensive than a tac squad, but can jump out of a transport and do 8 shots with grav hitting on 3+ as well as the plasma shot(s). 3 of those squads with Roboute nearby seems kinda scary.

Roboute seems like the natural choice for these sorts of lists since he makes everything so much better at everything. His typical downside is he is so pricey that the rest of your army is fairly small, but if all you are taking is relatively cheap tanks and infantry, I think it could still do pretty good work in less than ultra completive enviorments.

If Marines got a 1-2 point reduction to get them in line with other troops, and the rhino chassis went down 10-15 points, I think could actually be a decent army again, clogging up the midfield with tanks and power armored bodies.

Channeling martel -

“I don't have any difficulty believing that this list works, but be warned that you will be blasted badly by loads of people telling you that SM suck, transports are useless and that nothing can beat an IG gunline.”

Thanks for all the replies guys, honestly thought this would just sink through the threads like a pebble in the ocean, nice of you all to take the time!

-Yes Guilliman is 400pts of distraction carnifex... but he's an absolute bullet magnet! I'm experimenting with buying him some additional wounds via company veterans to ensure the primarch of my legion doesn't die quite so often... also he has a reasonable movement stat so he could hypothetically advance up with the tanks... but that draws fire towards them as it resembles the deathstar builds of old...

-I'll post a full list if people would like to see that? I believe there was a request above?

I originally drafted this list in response to a sweaty old neckbeard down the FLGS who was sh*ting on a pair of new marine players for using tacticals over scouts.... when he responds to my email (sent last night, as the final tactical's paint dried) and accepts my challenge; I will be taking great joy in utterly erasing his army....

GamerGuy

Well you can't shoot him if he isn't the closest, so just hide him behind the rhinos?

Drop pods don't tie thing up in melee. So even if they charge your pods you can stil shoot them (immobile rule).

Other than that I actuallys tumbled onto a similar situation at one of my FLGS. I tend to out play most of the people there, so I have been purposely trying to make bad lists so I can make them feel better about themselves. I played a 1k with 3 10 man tac squads, plasm/combi-plasma/missile launcher and put them in rhinos. Added a Gravis Cpt and a Primaris Lt and I did surprisingly well against a Newcron list.

In general I find Rhinos and Razorbacks passable if you are already running other vehicles. I prefer putting better things in them than tacticals, but they will pass if needed. I still don't think I would ever run more than 2 if I was playing a serious game, but I do like the idea of running a Chaplain Dread with the 2 and using the stratagem to give him a captain aura when they get out. Bonus pts for doing the same thing with BT and Crusader Squads, but the Emperor will probably smite you for heresy.

I would be interested in seeing the list. I currently run no Primaris. I have 4 rhinos/razorbacks i magnetized, and with the changing DS rules having mobility to strike from my deployment T1 could be a surprise for many people.

Had you considered not taking G'man as others have pointed out. Maybe Calgar instead?

What do you do against nids that can surround those rhinos so you can't deploy and can't fallback?

Fan them out.

 Zimko wrote:
What do you do against nids that can surround those rhinos so you can't deploy and can't fallback?

Against a horde list I don't really see that being a simple answer. Would need to see the rest of the list.

I played an experimental list with Rhinos a little while back and I found them to be incredibly annoying for my opponent. I was able to build barracades with them to block would-be assaulters, and block LOS from some would be shooters. Since the FAQ messes with my intended Pods list a bit, I may try out the Rhinos again and see how far I can take it. My hope is that I can bring a mix of Rhinos, Pods and Razors, but I might start with the classic Rhino Rush again.

 Captain Garius wrote:
Drop pods don't tie thing up in melee. So even if they charge your pods you can stil shoot them (immobile rule).

I don't think that's what the Immobile rule does.

Immobile: After this model has been set up on the battlefield it cannot move for any reason, and no units can embark upon it.

Drop pods do tie things up in combat. They just can't move, so they can't fall back. (which makes them a bit of a liability, as it's easy for enemies to hide in combat with them for a turn).

Most enemies can't fall back and charge again, so if they're choosing to attack a pod, they might be giving up potential a turn later. You can use pods to make obnoxious walls for opponents too.

Im thinking of running a similar list for my next tournament. 2-3 rhinos with 6 grey hunter squads, a droppod with wolfguard and HQ buffs, long fangs to screen backfield, and then fill the rest of the list with dreadnoughts and termies.

I know that threat title says ultramarines, but this thread got me thinking and I'll just throw this here. I know that this lists has a total lack of long range dakka, but in a 1k game I'm expecting my tin cans to reach forward. Mr. Slam is for T2+ deep strike with re-rollable 3d6 charge and still have CP to fight twice or if I die, honor the chapter. This is so far from how I normally play my BA, so thought if someone could have an idea could this work, even in 1k competitive play?

So, total there's only total of 4 drops, so I have a good chance getting the first turn and cruise them in position to disembark and bring the pain. Hopefully with transports providing cover from unwanted angles to live another turn.

Or is this just a stupid idea for as a 1k list.

I did go back and look after you said something. There are different rules that are both called Immobile. The one on Drop Pods don't say anything about shooting, and it is the one on Fortifications and Tarantulas that say you can still shoot enemy models within 1" of them. I wish they would rename the rules, as it seems silly that a sentry turret and a drop pod wouldn't be treated the same kind of Immobi

 Captain Garius wrote:
I did go back and look after you said something. There are different rules that are both called Immobile. The one on Drop Pods don't say anything about shooting, and it is the one on Fortifications and Tarantulas that say you can still shoot enemy models within 1" of them. I wish they would rename the rules, as it seems silly that a sentry turret and a drop pod wouldn't be treated the same kind of Immobi

That's how everything is this edition - it's all bespoke rules. You have to read each datasheet to know what that unit's rule does, even if it has the same name as a rule on another datasheet.

See also: Explodes

You're using 5 man combat squads - rhinos lost the firing ports and they cost the same as a Razorback. Razorback assault cannons also literally doubled the number of shots.

Please advise why you wouldn't just use Razorbacks instead with the same strategy. Me no understan.

I'm really keen to try this, I think it might play well against my usual Necron oppo. I play BA but have gone more for the mechanised infantry rather than the usual BA CC specialists, how does this compare to your list? (p.s. you think you might get shot down, I play Power Level games so it's 100PL)




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm really aiming for target overload with the razorbacks and the bikes to run around getting objectives.

Lots of people do use Razorbacks, but they are significantly more expensive, only hit on 4s on the move, and you lose more if you use them to tie up units in CC.

I like Razors for gunlines, but a mix or just Rhinos is probably better for the rush strategy that this thread is about.

I've tried the list, a couple of rhinos with dual storm bolters are putting out 16 hits at 12" on a fairly ignored and quite tough platform. Coupled with some scout bikes they have done me well in the past couple of games.

Bascally, this combo moves fast and puts out a lot of low strength hits, useful I think.

I think rhino rush is a pretty solid way to go for take all comers. Especially if you use the rhinos offensively after you have disembarked. I charged one into 2 land raiders in a recent game. My opponent just kept falling back and trying to kill the rhino with what little other shooting he had. It's a fantastic way to deal with non flying or melee blobs and castle lists.