Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello everyone!

Currently i'm in the process of building a rather fluff heavy IRON WARRIORS army, and as such, looking to acquire some tanks and artillery... and meat shields from the astra-militarum...Imperial guard!

Today at one of my local game stores, i got told of a 'legal' way to include this as an army in 8th edition, in the way of using cypher as a character in my army, thanks to his duel key words in the faction area of being 'chaos / imperium / fallen'

Is this actually game worthy to do, or just plain silly? And what effect would this have on the chaos portion of the army?

The proper way to do this would be to use Renegades and Heretics (aka traitor guard) from Forge World.

Lithiak wrote:
Hello everyone!

Currently i'm in the process of building a rather fluff heavy IRON WARRIORS army, and as such, looking to acquire some tanks and artillery... and meat shields from the astra-militarum...Imperial guard!

Today at one of my local game stores, i got told of a 'legal' way to include this as an army in 8th edition, in the way of using cypher as a character in my army, thanks to his duel key words in the faction area of being 'chaos / imperium / fallen'

Is this actually game worthy to do, or just plain silly? And what effect would this have on the chaos portion of the army?

If you are playing Open/Narrative Play, this is unnecessary. Just purchase your IG units in an Astra Militarum Detachment and your Iron Warriors in an Heretic Astartes detachment and be done with it.

In Matched Play, this is not legal. All units in your entire army must share a Keyword (or be Unaligned). There is on way for Imperial Guard and Iron Warriors to share a keyword and Cypher does nothing to change that fact.

Why not just buy scorpius tanks and rapier batteries and make the whole shebang iw

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
The proper way to do this would be to use Renegades and Heretics (aka traitor guard) from Forge World.

This would be the best and most 'safe' way to do this. If you're looking to save money, use GW models but chaos them up a bit and I can't see many casual opponents being too broken up about them not being blessed resin.


I won't speak of Cypher as this seems like a fringe way of dealing with the issue, so i'll avoid agreeing or disagreeing.

 alextroy wrote:

Lithiak wrote:
Hello everyone!

Currently i'm in the process of building a rather fluff heavy IRON WARRIORS army, and as such, looking to acquire some tanks and artillery... and meat shields from the astra-militarum...Imperial guard!

Today at one of my local game stores, i got told of a 'legal' way to include this as an army in 8th edition, in the way of using cypher as a character in my army, thanks to his duel key words in the faction area of being 'chaos / imperium / fallen'

Is this actually game worthy to do, or just plain silly? And what effect would this have on the chaos portion of the army?

If you are playing Open/Narrative Play, this is unnecessary. Just purchase your IG units in an Astra Militarum Detachment and your Iron Warriors in an Heretic Astartes detachment and be done with it.

In Matched Play, this is not legal. All units in your entire army must share a Keyword (or be Unaligned). There is on way for Imperial Guard and Iron Warriors to share a keyword and Cypher does nothing to change that fact.

Thank you! i'll be obviously using chaos cultist models instead of the guard forces, or trying to make them look penal legion style, as having fresh guardsmen working with the iron warriors wouldn't look right, lol, i don't think i could afford the forge world kits, any other options that would be suggested to create the general meatshield infantry?

Lithiak wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

Lithiak wrote:
Hello everyone!

Currently i'm in the process of building a rather fluff heavy IRON WARRIORS army, and as such, looking to acquire some tanks and artillery... and meat shields from the astra-militarum...Imperial guard!

Today at one of my local game stores, i got told of a 'legal' way to include this as an army in 8th edition, in the way of using cypher as a character in my army, thanks to his duel key words in the faction area of being 'chaos / imperium / fallen'

Is this actually game worthy to do, or just plain silly? And what effect would this have on the chaos portion of the army?

If you are playing Open/Narrative Play, this is unnecessary. Just purchase your IG units in an Astra Militarum Detachment and your Iron Warriors in an Heretic Astartes detachment and be done with it.

In Matched Play, this is not legal. All units in your entire army must share a Keyword (or be Unaligned). There is on way for Imperial Guard and Iron Warriors to share a keyword and Cypher does nothing to change that fact.

Thank you! i'll be obviously using chaos cultist models instead of the guard forces, or trying to make them look penal legion style, as having fresh guardsmen working with the iron warriors wouldn't look right, lol, i don't think i could afford the forge world kits, any other options that would be suggested to create the general meatshield infantry?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/CSM-Cultists-Assault

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Chaos-Space-Marines-Cultists


These could be worth checking out?

 Lion of Caliban wrote:

Lithiak wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

Lithiak wrote:
Hello everyone!

Currently i'm in the process of building a rather fluff heavy IRON WARRIORS army, and as such, looking to acquire some tanks and artillery... and meat shields from the astra-militarum...Imperial guard!

Today at one of my local game stores, i got told of a 'legal' way to include this as an army in 8th edition, in the way of using cypher as a character in my army, thanks to his duel key words in the faction area of being 'chaos / imperium / fallen'

Is this actually game worthy to do, or just plain silly? And what effect would this have on the chaos portion of the army?

If you are playing Open/Narrative Play, this is unnecessary. Just purchase your IG units in an Astra Militarum Detachment and your Iron Warriors in an Heretic Astartes detachment and be done with it.

In Matched Play, this is not legal. All units in your entire army must share a Keyword (or be Unaligned). There is on way for Imperial Guard and Iron Warriors to share a keyword and Cypher does nothing to change that fact.

Thank you! i'll be obviously using chaos cultist models instead of the guard forces, or trying to make them look penal legion style, as having fresh guardsmen working with the iron warriors wouldn't look right, lol, i don't think i could afford the forge world kits, any other options that would be suggested to create the general meatshield infantry?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/CSM-Cultists-Assault

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Chaos-Space-Marines-Cultists


These could be worth checking out?

Those were what i was looking at to represent the 'guard' portion of the army, and i'd likely use Iron warrior crewmen on the things like the basilisks and leman russ tanks, running alongside the predators and possibly defliers, not sure on running the hellbrute but i'd try to find old style dreads for them, i'm trying to avoid the fleshy or daemon-engine look.

The IW fluff has them running essentially slave levies of human armies and looted guard weapons crewed by human troops, the R&H rules as noted would probably fit best.

Lithiak wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

Lithiak wrote:
Hello everyone!

Currently i'm in the process of building a rather fluff heavy IRON WARRIORS army, and as such, looking to acquire some tanks and artillery... and meat shields from the astra-militarum...Imperial guard!

Today at one of my local game stores, i got told of a 'legal' way to include this as an army in 8th edition, in the way of using cypher as a character in my army, thanks to his duel key words in the faction area of being 'chaos / imperium / fallen'

Is this actually game worthy to do, or just plain silly? And what effect would this have on the chaos portion of the army?

If you are playing Open/Narrative Play, this is unnecessary. Just purchase your IG units in an Astra Militarum Detachment and your Iron Warriors in an Heretic Astartes detachment and be done with it.

In Matched Play, this is not legal. All units in your entire army must share a Keyword (or be Unaligned). There is on way for Imperial Guard and Iron Warriors to share a keyword and Cypher does nothing to change that fact.

Thank you! i'll be obviously using chaos cultist models instead of the guard forces, or trying to make them look penal legion style, as having fresh guardsmen working with the iron warriors wouldn't look right, lol, i don't think i could afford the forge world kits, any other options that would be suggested to create the general meatshield infantry?

I feel like the Orlock gangers are a great fit for Iron Warriors cultists. Right coat of paint and they'd fit the aesthetic perfectly.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The IW fluff has them running essentially slave levies of human armies and looted guard weapons crewed by human troops, the R&H rules as noted would probably fit best.

Yeah, i've got the rules for those, they do look suitable, its just finding the models without resorting to forgeworld for it now. haha.

Just use normal Guard models as "Renegades and Heretics". WYSIWYG is not a rule and it's not even a rule you have to use the "correct" model to represent the "correct" datasheet. Running normal GW guard models with the Renegades and Heretic ruleset is perfectly legal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lithiak wrote:
Today at one of my local game stores, i got told of a 'legal' way to include this as an army in 8th edition, in the way of using cypher as a character in my army, thanks to his duel key words in the faction area of being 'chaos / imperium / fallen'

This does not work. While Cypher has both keywords, that doesn't change the fact that EVERY unit in a Matched Play detachment must share a keyword in every detachment. IW don't have IMPERIUM and Guard don't have CHAOS.

I’m building a similar army. What I’ve been doing is mixing parts from the Cadian, Catachan, Genestealer Neophyte, And Neophyte Hybrids kit for my cultists. Just try to remove as many Tyranid symbols as possible.

Renegades and Heretics are the best way to get that army in matched play. You’re gonna need the Forces Of the Astra Militarum Index from Forgeworld as well as the Imperium Index 2 for the rules to bring Renegade and Heretic tanks.

If you want to really line up rules, you can, ironicly, use the Imperial Fists rules, with IG allies. This would be an *Imperium* list, rule-wise, but would get you what you want: Cool Marines with IG tanks and troopers at their side.

The models can look like anything from there, so Cultist away!

Second to R&H stuff. Pretty much all their tanks and artillery stuff is copy/paste from AM. Sounds like R&H infantry (cultists or crappy guard) would be perfect for the theme of the army. Or you could just bring a few spearhead detachments of R&H with some iron warriors around them.

Though, you will need the index from FW, and the AM codex, as codes models replace index. So your leman russes will have grinding advance.

one idea i had with IW and loads of human bods was use the likes of horrors (shooty and inv save) but model them as borg looking cyborg servitor dudes with laser gun arms.

more bulky close combat pit slave looking cyber jerks as plague bearers

evil reprogrammed servo skull swams or hijacked tau drones etc any robotic drone type stuff as brimstone horrors or nurgling basses

admech Kataphron's as rapiers (in fact a lot of the admech range is good for kitbash)