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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Eastern Washington

I'm thinking of getting back into games workshop stuff with some 30k. I'd probably start with some BaC and BoP boxes. I was wondering if the Custodes and Sisters in the BoP box would be any good at taking out a Primarch? Fluff wise I know they are, but on the table top they may be a hot bucket of suck. I've been outta the loop a while.

TYVM

4,000 Word Bearers 1,500 
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster





Newcastle

In the box? Not really but you could probably make the custode officer and he could help with the fight but a primarch is a primarch and you arent gonna kill with basic bodies outside of a fluke. Between eternal warrior awesome weapons and awesome rules primarchs are quite naturally beatsticks that only get worried by other primarchs and a few special characters.
   
Made in us
Abel





Washington State

Even the weakest Primarch would eat a squad of Custodies and Sisters of Silence and ask for more. Fluff != gameplay. The only thing that can stand up to a Primarch is another Primarch, a Titan, Valdor, and that Mechanicus special character. There are some specialized squads out there that cost as much as, if not more than, Primarchs that can do the job, but...

Personally, I like that aspect of 30K. Primarchs should be big, bad that strike fear into your opponents.

As King Amroth wrote, there is nothing in the BaC or BoP boxes that can really challenge a Primarch.

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

A tooled up Custodes Praetor can handle most primarchs, the 3++ with the -1 to hit and eternal warrior make for a very tough nut to crack.
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster





Newcastle

 Formosa wrote:
A tooled up Custodes Praetor can handle most primarchs, the 3++ with the -1 to hit and eternal warrior make for a very tough nut to crack.

That is not true, a custodes praetor and bodyguard unit could give some of the Primarchs a hard time and perhaps get lucky if they are on their own but thats it. The math on that is not good.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

 King Amroth wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
A tooled up Custodes Praetor can handle most primarchs, the 3++ with the -1 to hit and eternal warrior make for a very tough nut to crack.

That is not true, a custodes praetor and bodyguard unit could give some of the Primarchs a hard time and perhaps get lucky if they are on their own but thats it. The math on that is not good.


3++ re rollable save with -1 to hit give every primarch a hard time, doubtful it will kill the primarch but that primarch is going nowhere for almost the entire game, thats good enough, so yes, its true.
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster





Newcastle

 Formosa wrote:
 King Amroth wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
A tooled up Custodes Praetor can handle most primarchs, the 3++ with the -1 to hit and eternal warrior make for a very tough nut to crack.

That is not true, a custodes praetor and bodyguard unit could give some of the Primarchs a hard time and perhaps get lucky if they are on their own but thats it. The math on that is not good.


3++ re rollable save with -1 to hit give every primarch a hard time, doubtful it will kill the primarch but that primarch is going nowhere for almost the entire game, thats good enough, so yes, its true.

Okay yea in that case you are right, about 600 points of custsodes could hold up the weaker primarchs if they were on their own for a few turns. I would deffinetly suggest that no one consider this as an actual counter.
Unfortunatley the stronger primarchs will walk through that unit as if it were wet tissue paper even on their own.
   
Made in us
Abel





Washington State

The OP did specify the 5 Custodies and 5 Sisters of Silence models in the BoP being the anti-primarch force, and I don't see how you could tool up either one of those units to challenge a Primarch.

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nottingham

I'd be more inclined to make a ten man plasma support squad by picking up a couple of extra plasma guns and send them after a primarch. They'll shave enough wounds off for another unit to swoop in after said primarch has killed them in combat.

Have a look at my P&M blog - currently working on Sons of Horus

Have a look at my 3d Printed Mierce Miniatures

Previous projects
30k Iron Warriors (11k+)
Full first company Crimson Fists
Zone Mortalis (unfinished)
Classic high elf bloodbowl team 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Eastern Washington

I imagined the sisters would have some strong debuffs. As a duo can they work a double whammy?

Mostly I'm cheap. And I'd just like to use the models in the basic boxes

4,000 Word Bearers 1,500 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nottingham

Well between the two boxes you already have 6 plasma guns, and sixty bodies, so it would be easy to turn a couple into support and heavy support squads. You can do five man squads with what you have, or pick up 4 extra of the special/heavy weapons off friends that have spares or for cheap on eBay. Worth considering.

Have a look at my P&M blog - currently working on Sons of Horus

Have a look at my 3d Printed Mierce Miniatures

Previous projects
30k Iron Warriors (11k+)
Full first company Crimson Fists
Zone Mortalis (unfinished)
Classic high elf bloodbowl team 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

 King Amroth wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
 King Amroth wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
A tooled up Custodes Praetor can handle most primarchs, the 3++ with the -1 to hit and eternal warrior make for a very tough nut to crack.

That is not true, a custodes praetor and bodyguard unit could give some of the Primarchs a hard time and perhaps get lucky if they are on their own but thats it. The math on that is not good.


3++ re rollable save with -1 to hit give every primarch a hard time, doubtful it will kill the primarch but that primarch is going nowhere for almost the entire game, thats good enough, so yes, its true.

Okay yea in that case you are right, about 600 points of custsodes could hold up the weaker primarchs if they were on their own for a few turns. I would deffinetly suggest that no one consider this as an actual counter.
Unfortunatley the stronger primarchs will walk through that unit as if it were wet tissue paper even on their own.



Unit?

That’s a custodes praetor with presidium shield, it can also choose eternal warrior and get str 8 ap2 quite easily, custodes praetors (always forget the proper name) are bonkers for the points, it’s a shame that Valdor isn’t even as good as a bog standard custodes hq.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Custodes tribune.
Presidium shield
Iron halo
Digital weapons
Cyber familia
Paragon spear (or solarite power gauntlet for str10 ap1)


So that’s 6 ws7 str6/10 ap2 attack’s with instant death (helps against FNP) on a 6 to wound, generates more attacks on a 6 to hit, 3++ re rollable save and -1 to hit if you target him (he will ALWAYS challenge you) and eternal warrior.

This guy can easily tank most primarchs and beat most primarchs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/28 19:16:32


 
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain




I'm not convinced he'll reliably kill primarchs, but yeah, even if he doesn't he'll challenge one and keep him going nowhere for a substantial length of time, which (since he costs less) is a net win for you as your regular golden boys can smack the snot out of his army whilst he flails at their boss's shield.

Sisters of silence aren't actually that great in a fight, but they are reasonably cheap and provide fearless normal infantry - something pretty unusual in 30k and usually attached to a downside (frenzied and uncontrollable goons like cult horde militia, brainless no-overwatch types like adsecularis, or expensive elites like tactical veterans).

Having some small, cheap infantry squads you can trust to sit on an objective and stay their unless wiped out to the last soldier is a great comfort to an expensive elite army like custodes.

Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Eastern Washington

I'm coming at this from more of a fluffy angle. The SoS are known as powerful debuffers in the fluff. As a guy a long while outta the hobby, can the SoS use equipment or special characters to take a Primarch down a peg? In terms of the BoP legend I could see the duo working well. Hence the thread.

Thanks to the brain trust for all the pro tips.

So....?

4,000 Word Bearers 1,500 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nottingham

Sos can stop a primarch from gaining psychic buffs, but they don't have anything that will reduce them from their initial abilities or stats. A squad will tie up a primarch for one or two rounds of combat before he moves on. BoP, is a different game focussed on a very specific instance, and so what happens there doesn't necessarily transfer to the 30k tabletop. Using a custodes praetor as Formosa suggested is your only real way to achieve what you are after.

Imo, the best way to kill a primarch is just making them take lots of saving throws. Pepper them with shots until they die, don't focus so much on one or two units to do the job, just shoot them with volume.

Have a look at my P&M blog - currently working on Sons of Horus

Have a look at my 3d Printed Mierce Miniatures

Previous projects
30k Iron Warriors (11k+)
Full first company Crimson Fists
Zone Mortalis (unfinished)
Classic high elf bloodbowl team 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Just off the top of my head we have most primarchs at WS7, so at best most primarchs hit you on a 5+, at worst 4+, almost no primarchs have any re rolls to hit (unless they have a chaplain with them... Vulkans hammer isn’t even master crafted ??), and most primarchs will wound the tribune on a 2+ being between str7 and 10, in return the tribune will be hitting on a 4+ most of the time and wounding on between 2+ and 4+ depending on what laodout you take, but at a very very reduced cost, it’s a good trade off, the tribune also can generate more attacks on a 6+ to hit so it has an edge in getting those hits and wounds down.

If you play custodes and you are playing against primarchs you MUST take this tribune, it’s limted to 1 per DETACHMENT of 2k or more, so you won’t be taking them as allies and most of the time you will only be getting 1, except massive games.

It’s because of characters and units like this we (and others) limit custodes to 80% of the points of thier opponents, they make 7th eldar look tame in comparison and are singly the most broken army GW has ever produced, as they should be.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Eastern Washington

Thanks for the input guys. As soulless abominations akin to culexsus and pariahs I thought the SoS may have had some solid debuffs. Apparently not. Oh well, I'll just sell them on EBay or something.

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Fixture of Dakka




Being soulless isn't all that when you aren't a psyker. It makes someone feel uncomfortable. Even if you are a psyker you can punch them to death.

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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Formosa wrote:
Just off the top of my head we have most primarchs at WS7, so at best most primarchs hit you on a 5+, at worst 4+, almost no primarchs have any re rolls to hit (unless they have a chaplain with them... Vulkans hammer isn’t even master crafted ??), and most primarchs will wound the tribune on a 2+ being between str7 and 10, in return the tribune will be hitting on a 4+ most of the time and wounding on between 2+ and 4+ depending on what laodout you take, but at a very very reduced cost, it’s a good trade off, the tribune also can generate more attacks on a 6+ to hit so it has an edge in getting those hits and wounds down.

If you play custodes and you are playing against primarchs you MUST take this tribune, it’s limted to 1 per DETACHMENT of 2k or more, so you won’t be taking them as allies and most of the time you will only be getting 1, except massive games.

It’s because of characters and units like this we (and others) limit custodes to 80% of the points of thier opponents, they make 7th eldar look tame in comparison and are singly the most broken army GW has ever produced, as they should be.


So if a legion player takes a primarch, custodes basically must take a tankibune, in order to not auto loose. So I hope your community is also enforcing a 80% handicap on anyone taking a primarch?
   
Made in us
Abel





Washington State

 Red Marine wrote:
Thanks for the input guys. As soulless abominations akin to culexsus and pariahs I thought the SoS may have had some solid debuffs. Apparently not. Oh well, I'll just sell them on EBay or something.


FW during a recent Twitch show, said book VIII will have a lot more stuff in it to address the psychic balance in the game. They did not go into details, so take that as you will. Sisters might have a possible larger role soon. You might want to sit on them until book VIII comes out. I am.

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
 
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