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I've played several battles now and I can't help but feel I should just play an army of khorne berserkers. I will, but I like diversity. In a World Eaters, Khorne-only, army using the Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Demons, and Imperial Armor: Chaos codices what are some units that are actually worth taking?

I really like my Demon Prince and I have not had the chance to try out a Dark Apostle or Exalted Champion, yet.

Obliterators are so-so. My group hasn't used the beta rules, yet, so I'm still getting turn 1 deep strikes with them, but 3 of them haven't greatly impressed me, yet. I guess I'm mostly looking for good melee to use with my 'zerkers, but fire-support is still beneficial. Should I be looking at anything besides Oblits, Predators, and Havocs? I'm wondering if a Spartan Assault tank (or a land raider or two) might be worth investing in since I can use them as a transport and firing platform. Like a rhino+predator. Thoughts?

Raptors, Warp Talons, and Bikers seem all right, but whenever I use them I always feel like I should've taken more berserkers. These guys have lower strength and less attacks so even though they get into combat very quickly, they aren't doing anything exceptional and they're not any cheaper.

I've never used possessed but both on paper and from what others say, they aren't worth taking over berserkers.

I know no one likes Terminators, but I've never intended to use warptime on them or give them plasma. Still, lightning claw terminators have less wounds and less attacks than berserkers.

What about Helbrutes and Maulerfiends? I've heard people talk about the x2 scourge helbrutes, but do these things even make it to combat?

I feel like my army is going to slowly become lots of berserkers in rhinos and while this won't be boring to play, I'd like to know if there's anything else that deserves a spot on the table next to the berserkers before it's just a red tide of whirling blades.

As a World Eaters and Khorne Daemons player, yes, Berserkers are your staple. They count as a troop choice, they've got a solid weapon loadout, they fight twice, and they fight twice. Rhino's are going to be your preferred method of transport (outside of FW). The rest of my rosters have typically have a big unit of 30 cultists for use with the Tide of Traitors strategem, a Lascannon Helbrute with either the missle launcher or the power scourge, Daemon Prince(s), Exalted Champ, Dark Apostle, Obliterators and plasma gun Havoks. My go to combo with world eaters is the Dark Apostle + Exalted Champ inside a rhino with 8 berserkers. Anytime I get the chance, you'll find me running this. These all function fairly well to provide an attempt at a balanced list. I do also run a Patrol detachment of Khorne Daemons and they typically get a lot of work done.

I do have units of Terminators and Possessed which are alright. Berserkers do everything that Possessed do, but twice as good. Possessed may have potential while in range of a Khorne Bloodmaster with their Str buff, but that's about it. The terminators are interesting and have potential but there's also a downside. They're expensive especially when they're kitted out, and if you really want them to work you typically have to bring some sort of lord in with them for the reroll aura. At the same time though, bringing a handful of these guys with Combi-Meltas or Combi-Plas can wreak havok on unscreened units. It should be noted though that the beta deep strike rules have impacted their preferred delivery mechanic.

You need to bring some target saturation though because a smart opponent will take out your rhino's and severely neuter your capability to do anything. Either put some ranged targets, such as Las helbrutes or defilers in your backfield, or send some quicker brawlers up field such as a Maulerfiend or assault geared helbrute. Maybe even a heldrake or two? For me, this is where deepstriking Daemon's and Oblits came into play which worked well enough for me to compete as an assault based army. If you do not bring any sort of ranged threats, you are essentially bringing a knife to a gunfight and it will not end well for you.

I'm aware that they're a staple, but what I'd like to avoid is having them be my entire army.

For target saturation I've got the Demon Prince and Blood Slaughterer competing with the Rhinos, but that's it.

How do the deepstrike demons and oblits work for target saturation? They aren't on the field turn 1 and if you aren't going first then they won't be on the field turn 2, either. The only success I've seen with my demons is the turn 1 bloodletter bomb, which now no longer works. Other than that, what exactly are you doing with your demons? How are you deep striking them all?

I have 20 cultists but I haven't had a chance to field them. Outside of objective capping I don't see what use I'd have for them and my group hasn't played any scenarios, yet. We just battle until one side has no more minis.

Most of the dread/daemon engines are solid choice (except the forgefield), and are a good way to add some heavy punching strength to boost the chaff-clearing ability of berzerkers.

Bloodslaughterers: Expensive, but really fast and throws out a ton of attacks that are all deadly. Take the harpoon.

Decimators: Basically Helbrute-plus. Both shooty and combat versions are good, with daemon engine benifits, and better attacks/speed over a regular dread. I like running mine with stormlasers and then feeding it daemon forge every turn to chew through heavy infantry.

Contemptors: Well worth taking. Take chainfists and plasma/soulburners if you have points to spare. Butcher cannons are good too. The chainfist is flat 4 damage and will evaporate whatever you nick with it. 4++ in combat and eating fools to regen wounds is also awesome.

Leviathans: For bigger games, they kickass, but they are the same points as a landraider. Flamer and melaguns want to be upclose, so take a fist and the butcher array or grav bombard.

Deredeo: Good firesupport if you need some. Butchercannon or plasma is good choice. Use stratagem to move and shoot if you need to, and keep a cheap lord nearby to reroll 1s.

Defilers: Cheap and durable with bolters and scourge, and can open up t8 targets on a 2+ in combat. Good for sucking up lots of bullets and then crushing things with daemon forge (or a nearby apostle. WS4 hurts). Treat any shooting they have as a bonus.

Helbrutes: Think of them like "troop" walkers. They're relatively cheap, but also don't perform that highly by themselves. You'll need at least 2 for redundancy and a lot of other threats to help them out. Punchy ones with 2 combibolters are about 125pts and still hit like a truck if they can get into combat.

Maulerfiends: Unfortunately the wound table hurts them pretty bad, neutering both their speed and strength. With lashes they can be decent at killing larger units, but they really need to be supported by an apostle or daemonforge, and they work best with warptime or a slaanesh herald to speed them up a bit. For worldeaters, there's probably better critters to pick.

As a fellow World Eater player, here's my top 5 picks.

1. BLood Slaughterer of Khorne. A faster, anti-heavy maulerfiend, and is pretty balanced in cost.

2. Bloodletters. Although it seems weird to have both in an army, I can't stress enough how nice -3 AP is at times. Some things you want high attacks for ,but you may find that things with high AP like terminators just laugh at Berzerkers. That's when the Blood Letters come.

3. Defilers. Be it ranged, melee, or mixed this thing is a threat magnet, and can take a lot of abuse before going down.

4. Las-Preds. Just like the Bloodletters, you need something to punch a BIG hole in your opponent's big stuff, and this thing doens't need to worry about silly things like bubblewrap!

5. Lord of Skulls. And finally, the big daddy. I can't stress enough how underrated this thing is. It's a fire magnet that has hard staying power from its regen and 5++, it can put out a great number of shots, and is nearly unmatched in melee. For about 600 points, this thing more than makes up for its cost, and is one of the best LoWs in the game (outside of Primarchs, but screw those guys.)

Thanks guys!

I have:

Demon Prince
16 Bloodletters
Bloodthirster
30 Zerkers
Blood Slaughterer
Kytan Ravager (how does this compare to the Lord of Skulls?)
Obliterators and Terminators

Next thing on my list is a Predator. I might play around with a Defiler cuz my friend wants to buy one for his Iron Warriors. We'll see how this Blood Slaughterer plays out. I'd love a 2nd one, but first I'll have to see how this one performs. It's the same price as a demon prince!

 Kharneth wrote:
I'm aware that they're a staple, but what I'd like to avoid is having them be my entire army.

For target saturation I've got the Demon Prince and Blood Slaughterer competing with the Rhinos, but that's it.

How do the deepstrike demons and oblits work for target saturation? They aren't on the field turn 1 and if you aren't going first then they won't be on the field turn 2, either. The only success I've seen with my demons is the turn 1 bloodletter bomb, which now no longer works. Other than that, what exactly are you doing with your demons? How are you deep striking them all?

I have 20 cultists but I haven't had a chance to field them. Outside of objective capping I don't see what use I'd have for them and my group hasn't played any scenarios, yet. We just battle until one side has no more minis.

I don't know if I'd say that bloodletter bombs no longer work. I'm still unhappy about the beta rules, but they can still absolutely come in on turn 2 and wreck face. On the flip side though, that turn delay to get them in can be devastating - it really all depends on your opponent.

Bring some Obliterators in on turn 1 if you need to. They don't necessary have to be behind enemy lines. They've got a 24 inch range which isn't too shabby. Put them down at the enemies front line and have them chew a hole to get your DS forces ready for turn 2.

And also, again, Havoks can be quite useful. Get some Las havoks, throw them in ruins and have them take pot shots. Same with plamsa havoks.

I am a fan of autocannon havocs. Those guys can put out 8 str 7 ap-1 d2 shots for 190 pts with 6 extra wound guys. Put them in cover and sit there making somethings life miserable, be it infantry or vehicle. Bikes get wrecked by these things, DA hellblasters will just die outside of fight back range, excellent fire Support.

 Kharneth wrote:
Thanks guys!

I have:

Demon Prince
16 Bloodletters
Bloodthirster
30 Zerkers
Blood Slaughterer
Kytan Ravager (how does this compare to the Lord of Skulls?)
Obliterators and Terminators

Next thing on my list is a Predator. I might play around with a Defiler cuz my friend wants to buy one for his Iron Warriors. We'll see how this Blood Slaughterer plays out. I'd love a 2nd one, but first I'll have to see how this one performs. It's the same price as a demon prince!

Honestly, get a second DP before you get another Slaughterer. And a Kytan is functionally the same as a Lord of Skulls, it just has a few things different along with a different model. So i'd say you're absolutely fine with a Kytan, it gets just as high praise as the tank treads version.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Kharneth wrote:
Thanks guys!

I have:

Demon Prince
16 Bloodletters
Bloodthirster
30 Zerkers
Blood Slaughterer
Kytan Ravager (how does this compare to the Lord of Skulls?)
Obliterators and Terminators

Next thing on my list is a Predator. I might play around with a Defiler cuz my friend wants to buy one for his Iron Warriors. We'll see how this Blood Slaughterer plays out. I'd love a 2nd one, but first I'll have to see how this one performs. It's the same price as a demon prince!

Honestly, get a second DP before you get another Slaughterer. And a Kytan is functionally the same as a Lord of Skulls, it just has a few things different along with a different model. So i'd say you're absolutely fine with a Kytan, it gets just as high praise as the tank treads version.

Thanks for the input! Technically I'll have 2 demon princes, but my Be'Lakor model is missing his hand/weapon so once I get my new forgeworld one (today!) I'll be shelving him 'til I can figure out what to do with his missing hand! You think I should field 2 DPs for 360 points? I'd like to, the DPs are insane. Would it still be right to keep one of them as my warlord? Is there any reason to make an apostle or champion a warlord?

Glad to hear the Kytan will be a viable alternative to the Lord of Skulls. I really dislike that model and much prefer the walking version.

As for Havocs, I love the autocannons and feel like their way more worth it in terms of relative price. With that said, should I kit my Predator out with all lascannons or should I magnetize it because sometimes I might need the autocannon and/or heavy bolters? Thoughts?

Remember that you can take Havocs with Plasma Guns, Melta Guns, and Flamers for that close support that can keep up with your Berzerkers.

 Kharneth wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Kharneth wrote:
Thanks guys!

I have:

Demon Prince
16 Bloodletters
Bloodthirster
30 Zerkers
Blood Slaughterer
Kytan Ravager (how does this compare to the Lord of Skulls?)
Obliterators and Terminators

Next thing on my list is a Predator. I might play around with a Defiler cuz my friend wants to buy one for his Iron Warriors. We'll see how this Blood Slaughterer plays out. I'd love a 2nd one, but first I'll have to see how this one performs. It's the same price as a demon prince!

Honestly, get a second DP before you get another Slaughterer. And a Kytan is functionally the same as a Lord of Skulls, it just has a few things different along with a different model. So i'd say you're absolutely fine with a Kytan, it gets just as high praise as the tank treads version.

Thanks for the input! Technically I'll have 2 demon princes, but my Be'Lakor model is missing his hand/weapon so once I get my new forgeworld one (today!) I'll be shelving him 'til I can figure out what to do with his missing hand! You think I should field 2 DPs for 360 points? I'd like to, the DPs are insane. Would it still be right to keep one of them as my warlord? Is there any reason to make an apostle or champion a warlord?

Glad to hear the Kytan will be a viable alternative to the Lord of Skulls. I really dislike that model and much prefer the walking version.

As for Havocs, I love the autocannons and feel like their way more worth it in terms of relative price. With that said, should I kit my Predator out with all lascannons or should I magnetize it because sometimes I might need the autocannon and/or heavy bolters? Thoughts?

Absolutely worth the points to play two. And despite what people say, you don't HAVE to go 2 claws....It's just the best all round loadout. But an axe is real scary too. And eh? Besides fluff reasons, you're better off making a DP, or something else with more staying power your warlord. I personally use a Terminator Chaos Lord, for that exact reason. And Havocs are pretty nice, I usually just run 5 plasma on them because it's cheaper than running Chosen with Plasma, and has the same general stats that are noteworthy.

And lastly, I cannot magnetize, I do not want to put the effort to learn in anyways. But if you can, absolutely magnetize. I personally think the quad lascannon pred is the best loadout, because it's the most compact amount of anti-tank you'll get for the points. I found predator autocannon is lacking, simply because you're paying for such a big body when just running Berzerkers deals with chaff way better

Maybe I'll use the Bloodthirster as a second Demon Prince unless it proves itself useful as a Bloodthirster. The model looks amazing, I can't not have one! But a demon detachment isn't worth it just for the Bloodthirster and Bloodletter bomb, especially since everyone says that the Greater Demons < Demon Princes.

My biggest two issues with having 2 DPs are 1) If I use the same model I'm worried I'll get confused over which is the Warlord and which isn't, plus I can only take 1 artefact for free and I'd dislike that kind of imbalance and then 2) a Demon Prince is a reward of Chaos and is the biggest honor you can grant your Warlord, having 2 of them feels like it detracts from the prestige of my warlord. But idk, it feels like it'd be so nasty to have 2! I dislike the Demon Axe because it reduces my chance to hit! Maybe having 1 to stay by the rhinos (with the dark apostle and exalted champion) would be good with an axe with rerolls while the other with the Talisman of Burning Blood flies ahead on his own to get a turn 1 charge. 2xClaws on a World Eaters Demon Prince of Khorne just wrecks face! 9 attacks on the charge, each with 2 damage!

Can we talk about the Predator? It's 190 points for quad-lascannon, which is roughly the same points cost as 3 obliterators or 6 havocs w/ 4 lascannons. To me, it feels like the Obliterators are the best choice here as they have the most firepower. The predator is definitely tougher than the obliterators, but I feel like I'd be paying for extra toughness at the cost of some offensiveness. Maybe I'm underestimating the power of the lascannon, though, I haven't used one in 8th.

I just want to make an additional point about the Daemon Prince. I've been running a Patrol detachment of Khorne Daemons with a Daemon Prince w/o wings as my Warlord. I gear him out with the Skullreaver - that thing is a beast. Even if you're not fighting titanic models, the wound rolls of 6's are just atrocious. The banner of blood really helps as well for getting that initial charge roll as well.

eternalxfl wrote:
I just want to make an additional point about the Daemon Prince. I've been running a Patrol detachment of Khorne Daemons with a Daemon Prince w/o wings as my Warlord. I gear him out with the Skullreaver - that thing is a beast. Even if you're not fighting titanic models, the wound rolls of 6's are just atrocious. The banner of blood really helps as well for getting that initial charge roll as well.

I already have a Demon Prince as a CSM and if I was going to take a demon detachment, the Bloodthirster would be the very first thing I took. I guess I could try to take a Demon's Bloodthirster, Demon Prince, and x3 bloodletter units for a battalion and then leave the CSM with the dark apostle and exalted champion as their HQ.

The quad laz is a go to good option, but I prefer the laz defiler. It hits on 4's, but if you go dual laz, battle cannon, and scourge you have a monster of a tank hunter and a scarry close combat monsters to boot for just over 200 pts.

Defiler also gets 5++ save, and for 1 CP you can reroll all failed hits and all failed wounds, meaning your going to probably hit and wound with enough stuff to do serious damage. I can normally destroy an enemy predator in one turn of shooting with my defiler with tzeentch without any spells cast on it, just using the stratagem. If not, it's definitely going to be down to its lowest teir. And if you put kharn next to it just for the rerolls you have an incredible range monster that no one will want to "charge to tie it up" like they'd do to a predator because the defiler will wreck face.

Oh and the defiler reheals 1 wound a turn too.

Azuza001 wrote:
The quad laz is a go to good option, but I prefer the laz defiler. It hits on 4's, but if you go dual laz, battle cannon, and scourge you have a monster of a tank hunter and a scarry close combat monsters to boot for just over 200 pts.

Defiler also gets 5++ save, and for 1 CP you can reroll all failed hits and all failed wounds, meaning your going to probably hit and wound with enough stuff to do serious damage. I can normally destroy an enemy predator in one turn of shooting with my defiler with tzeentch without any spells cast on it, just using the stratagem. If not, it's definitely going to be down to its lowest teir. And if you put kharn next to it just for the rerolls you have an incredible range monster that no one will want to "charge to tie it up" like they'd do to a predator because the defiler will wreck face.

Oh and the defiler reheals 1 wound a turn too.

Can't vehicles just back up and shoot? Granted it's at -1 to hit, but it's not like you can lock down a Predator. Plus, I rarely worry about my units being charged or locked into combat since literally everything in my army is a melee monster. They'd have to deep strike to get a charge off on the Predator.

No, they can not. If you back out you can't shoot unless you have a special rule which would allow it which chaos does not have.

Also don't forget the defiler has an incredible size, sticking it on an objective or even running up and hitting something with it with a deamon prince is effective. It's one of the odd ducks in the game where it's actually not bad depending on how you want to run it. Sit on an objective shooting, then when something gets a bit too close it can rush forward and engage in cc reliably.

Azuza001 wrote:
No, they can not. If you back out you can't shoot unless you have a special rule which would allow it which chaos does not have.

Also don't forget the defiler has an incredible size, sticking it on an objective or even running up and hitting something with it with a deamon prince is effective. It's one of the odd ducks in the game where it's actually not bad depending on how you want to run it. Sit on an objective shooting, then when something gets a bit too close it can rush forward and engage in cc reliably.

Really??? Vehicles get locked in combat? My friends have just been backing their Land Raiders from my zerker blobs and firing. I'll have to remember this! Still, though, I'm not convinced a Defiler is what I want. It's an expensive model that has a variety of uses. I generally prefer specialized units. Plus it's so ugly lol. When/if my friend buys one I might try it out.

 Kharneth wrote:

Really??? Vehicles get locked in combat? My friends have just been backing their Land Raiders from my zerker blobs and firing. I'll have to remember this! Still, though, I'm not convinced a Defiler is what I want. It's an expensive model that has a variety of uses. I generally prefer specialized units. Plus it's so ugly lol. When/if my friend buys one I might try it out.

lol - oh man, thats one of the biggest tactic's in the game that they've been ignoring. That's a substantial gip for you. Yes, unless a vehicle has the fly keyword or some other special ruling then if it does not want to be in close combat then it can fall back. The penalty for this is that they can no longer shoot (or charge, or advance, or overwatch or smoke). In most cases, it means that you will likely continue the pursuit and charge the model again sans overwatch. A smart player will have their gunline set to where when their vehicle falls back, they have a unit or two providing fire support to the pursuing unit.

Your friend is definitely playing it wrong. Vehicles can back out of combat, but that prevents them from shooting. Only units with FLY can leave combat and still shoot.

Tying up vehicles so they can't fire at you is one of the primary tactics in a combat army.

You can still pop smoke if you fall back, keep that in mind. The only condition for using smoke launchers is you don't shoot any other weapons. Why your not shooting is not even part of the situation, I advance my rhinos and pop smoke all the time. It's just smart tactics.

Azuza001 wrote:
You can still pop smoke if you fall back, keep that in mind. The only condition for using smoke launchers is you don't shoot any other weapons. Why your not shooting is not even part of the situation, I advance my rhinos and pop smoke all the time. It's just smart tactics.

Yeah, I advance and pop smoke turn 1 and then get my charges turn 2. I just didn't realize I could lock tanks in combat.

Two things get around falling back and not being able to fire without a special unit/army rule, assault weapons take a -1 or a unit with fly can ignore the penalty

Nicanthrope wrote:
Two things get around falling back and not being able to fire without a special unit/army rule, assault weapons take a -1 or a unit with fly can ignore the penalty

Sorry, that's incorrect.

Page 177 BBOR

There isn't anything there that says if you use an assault weapon you can shoot at -1. Also under assault weapons rules there isn't anything that says that either.