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Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






In Tactics I saw the idea of using Berzerkers in a Rhino with Combi Plasma, and a Sorcerer to warptime the rhino. Overcharge plasma, blow itself up on a 50/50, disembark berzerks, charge. Has anyone used this yet? I plan to this weekend, and will post the results here
   
Made in us
Khorne Rhino Driver with Destroyer





How are you getting the 50/50 to blow up? I get the -1 from firing both shots, but outside of rapid fire range, you're looking at 1/3 chance, inside is 2/3. That being said, I'd never thought of using Rhinos that way. Hope it works well for you!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 13:54:44


"If a man dedicates his life to good deeds and the welfare of others, he will die unthanked and unremembered. If he exercises his genius bringing misery and death to billions, his name will echo through the millenia for a hundered lifetimes. Infamy is always more preferable to ignominy."

-Fabius Bile at the Desecration of Kanzuz IX
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 Cadian16th wrote:
How are you getting the 50/50 to blow up? I get the -1 from firing both shots, but outside of rapid fire range, you're looking at 1/3 chance, inside is 2/3. That being said, I'd never thought of using Rhinos that way. Hope it works well for you!


Inside is about 50%, actually, because statistics don't stack like that.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Neat trick. Wont work every time but when it works - it will blow your mind. If they have a -1 to hit somewhere you can reach youll be at -2. LOL. 50% chance to blow up with a reroll available.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/24 14:08:08


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





That's hilarious! The suicide Rhino!

 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
Made in se
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Sweden

 vaklor4 wrote:
In Tactics I saw the idea of using Berzerkers in a Rhino with Combi Plasma, and a Sorcerer to warptime the rhino. Overcharge plasma, blow itself up on a 50/50, disembark berzerks, charge. Has anyone used this yet? I plan to this weekend, and will post the results here


This is awesome in so many ways. Are rhinos really slain from the combi plasma overcharge? I had not even thought of that. I suppose then that loyalist can do similar with the lasplas razorback

Brutal, but kunning!  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





LasPlas doesn't have the built-in -1-to-hit option. Can still happen, especially with the plethora of -1-to-hit rules out there.

Too bad those aren't Assault plas variants. Built in -1 for moving further would be even better than combi!

Also, Loyalists don't have the same PA CC options CSM have. A few options, but nothing like Berzerkers.

If you could get the inherent -1-to-hit with Loyalists, it'd work, but feel really gimmicky. CSM trying to push their vehicles so hard they blow up feels more "right".
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





I feel like this plasma overcharge “exploit” is the most satisfying thing anyone could pull off in 40k.
   
Made in us
Charing Cold One Knight





Sticksville, Texas

This gives me much joy.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

This is actually a really fun way to "punish" armies that have -1 to hit traits.

What improves your chances more though, getting in Rapid Fire range to get the extra shot, or stay outside 12" to suffer the -1 to hit from an opponent's army trait?
Essentially 2 shots with a 1/3 chance to roll 1 each, or 1 shot with a 1/2 chance to roll a 1.

-

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/04/24 14:53:28


   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Base is 2/6 chance to explode, so 4/6 to not.

Inside RF, you have 1-(4/6)^2 to explode.

Outside RF, you have 1-(3/6)^1 to explode.

So inside RF works better, by a small margin.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

If you want to know the odds...
1/6 normally, -1 for firing both weapons so now blow up on 1 or 2 - 1/3 (33%). Firing both plasma shots means it is now a 5/9 chance of blowing up (56%). Adding a CP means it is now 19/27 (70%).

Edit - didn't see the question about being inside or out of Rapid fire range but that is already answered. Still how about you go crazy and race up, try and shoot a flyer with a -1 to hit for -2 or even -3 if they are sneaky Eldar.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 14:57:09


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

My question was in regards to dealing with outside -1 modifiers, like army traits that grant -1 to hit outside 12"

Are you more likely to roll 1 for Overcharge with 2 shots from within 12" with -1 to hit from combi weapon,
Or only 1 shot from outside 12" with -2 to hit from combi + opponent army trait

I also like the "shoot at a Flyer" idea.

-

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/04/24 15:05:59


   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






Even if it were equal chance outside of 12, you still wanna be as close as humanly possible to get that charge in. Even a 5" with rerolls is failable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im playing a 4000 stronghold game and im changing my list to get this in. Bringing 4 berzerker vans instead of 2, and bringing 2 Slaanesh DPs and 2 Jumppack Sorcerers of Slaanesh. Will only cost me about 1600, so I still got well over 2k for the rest of my World Eaters to back this up. Fitting strategy considering my army is a World Eaters/Slaanesh Renegade army named Authors of Pain

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 16:18:54


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 vaklor4 wrote:
Even if it were equal chance outside of 12, you still wanna be as close as humanly possible to get that charge in. Even a 5" with rerolls is failable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im playing a 4000 stronghold game and im changing my list to get this in. Bringing 4 berzerker vans instead of 2, and bringing 2 Slaanesh DPs and 2 Jumppack Sorcerers of Slaanesh. Will only cost me about 1600, so I still got well over 2k for the rest of my World Eaters to back this up. Fitting strategy considering my army is a World Eaters/Slaanesh Renegade army named Authors of Pain

Oh, no doubt you want to be as close to the unit you want the 'Zerkers to assault, but you could choose to shoot at a target outside 12" if it increased your chance to roll a 1.

My thinking is that more shots is probably better, especially if you can also shoot a Flyer or other unit that has an innate -1 to hit + an army trait that gives another -1.

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 16:28:16


   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






 Galef wrote:
 vaklor4 wrote:
Even if it were equal chance outside of 12, you still wanna be as close as humanly possible to get that charge in. Even a 5" with rerolls is failable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im playing a 4000 stronghold game and im changing my list to get this in. Bringing 4 berzerker vans instead of 2, and bringing 2 Slaanesh DPs and 2 Jumppack Sorcerers of Slaanesh. Will only cost me about 1600, so I still got well over 2k for the rest of my World Eaters to back this up. Fitting strategy considering my army is a World Eaters/Slaanesh Renegade army named Authors of Pain

Oh, no doubt you want to be as close to the unit you want the 'Zerkers to assault, but you could choose to shoot at a target outside 12" if it increased your chance to roll a 1.

My thinking is that more shots is probably better, especially if you can also shoot a Flyer or other unit that has an innate -1 to hit + an army trait that gives another -1.

-


Aaah I see what youre getting at. Charge something as close as possible, but SHOOT a -1. Good usin of that noggin!
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Bharring wrote:
LasPlas doesn't have the built-in -1-to-hit option. Can still happen, especially with the plethora of -1-to-hit rules out there.

Too bad those aren't Assault plas variants. Built in -1 for moving further would be even better than combi!

Also, Loyalists don't have the same PA CC options CSM have. A few options, but nothing like Berzerkers.

If you could get the inherent -1-to-hit with Loyalists, it'd work, but feel really gimmicky. CSM trying to push their vehicles so hard they blow up feels more "right".

No warp time ether - this is pretty crucial - just crap spells.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 vaklor4 wrote:
 Galef wrote:
 vaklor4 wrote:
Even if it were equal chance outside of 12, you still wanna be as close as humanly possible to get that charge in. Even a 5" with rerolls is failable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im playing a 4000 stronghold game and im changing my list to get this in. Bringing 4 berzerker vans instead of 2, and bringing 2 Slaanesh DPs and 2 Jumppack Sorcerers of Slaanesh. Will only cost me about 1600, so I still got well over 2k for the rest of my World Eaters to back this up. Fitting strategy considering my army is a World Eaters/Slaanesh Renegade army named Authors of Pain

Oh, no doubt you want to be as close to the unit you want the 'Zerkers to assault, but you could choose to shoot at a target outside 12" if it increased your chance to roll a 1.

My thinking is that more shots is probably better, especially if you can also shoot a Flyer or other unit that has an innate -1 to hit + an army trait that gives another -1.

-


Aaah I see what youre getting at. Charge something as close as possible, but SHOOT a -1. Good usin of that noggin!

The ideal target is ghost keel beyond 12" or an aliotoc flyer at beyond 12". You will be at -3 to hit - with a reroll its 82% chance to be slain.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/24 16:40:03


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






Also worth mentioning is that I plan to have a heat magnet. My lord of skulls will be rolling right down the middle of the field, so in the case of them getting first turn before me or me somehow failing MULTIPLE plasma or warp times, that big daddy will probably save the rhinos from certain doom.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Is there anything a Chaos player can do to help improve the odds of a plasma misfire? Or is it down to relying on enemy -1 traits?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Is there anything a Chaos player can do to help improve the odds of a plasma misfire? Or is it down to relying on enemy -1 traits?


Rhinos have combi-plasmas and can fire both barrels for the -1.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 vaklor4 wrote:
Also worth mentioning is that I plan to have a heat magnet. My lord of skulls will be rolling right down the middle of the field, so in the case of them getting first turn before me or me somehow failing MULTIPLE plasma or warp times, that big daddy will probably save the rhinos from certain doom.

Aint no one shooting rhinos with a LOS on the front lines.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





An interesting tactic. Seems like it might be subject to bad dice rolls on killing units in the transports when the transport dies. If you go all in on it I can see some merrit in just assuming you will lose some models.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Galef wrote:
My question was in regards to dealing with outside -1 modifiers, like army traits that grant -1 to hit outside 12"

Are you more likely to roll 1 for Overcharge with 2 shots from within 12" with -1 to hit from combi weapon,
Or only 1 shot from outside 12" with -2 to hit from combi + opponent army trait

I also like the "shoot at a Flyer" idea.

-


More shots better. With 2 dice blowing at 1 or 2 55% chance.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BaconCatBug wrote:
Is there anything a Chaos player can do to help improve the odds of a plasma misfire? Or is it down to relying on enemy -1 traits?
If they have Smoke Launchers or Disruption Pods or are a Wave Serpent that advanced... those all work. Nurgle, Tzeentch, Eldar, and I think Astra Militarum have access to a psychic power that can make a unit -1 to being shot at. These would all be ideal candidates.

 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






Oh im sure ill lose a couple models to the explosion. But this isnt for the win...ITS FOR THE MEMES!
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






I played my game last night, and it worked. It freakin worked. I ran 3 berzerker buses up with 3 exalted sorcerers from a t-sons detachment, and managed to actually get the warp time, plasma and charge off! Mind, I burned a lot of CP to make it work.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 vaklor4 wrote:
I played my game last night, and it worked. It freakin worked. I ran 3 berzerker buses up with 3 exalted sorcerers from a t-sons detachment, and managed to actually get the warp time, plasma and charge off! Mind, I burned a lot of CP to make it work.


Nice!

You can only Warptime one of them though right? Or were you not using matched play?
   
Made in us
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





Ohio

Stux wrote:
 vaklor4 wrote:
I played my game last night, and it worked. It freakin worked. I ran 3 berzerker buses up with 3 exalted sorcerers from a t-sons detachment, and managed to actually get the warp time, plasma and charge off! Mind, I burned a lot of CP to make it work.


Nice!

You can only Warptime one of them though right? Or were you not using matched play?

I was thinking the same thing. Also, how have the exalted sorcerers worked for you in other games? I've been toying with the idea of doing them.
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






Stux wrote:
 vaklor4 wrote:
I played my game last night, and it worked. It freakin worked. I ran 3 berzerker buses up with 3 exalted sorcerers from a t-sons detachment, and managed to actually get the warp time, plasma and charge off! Mind, I burned a lot of CP to make it work.


Nice!

You can only Warptime one of them though right? Or were you not using matched play?


This was indeed a narrative game. However, in matched play I would never play more than one warptime Rhino anyways


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 chimeara wrote:
Stux wrote:
 vaklor4 wrote:
I played my game last night, and it worked. It freakin worked. I ran 3 berzerker buses up with 3 exalted sorcerers from a t-sons detachment, and managed to actually get the warp time, plasma and charge off! Mind, I burned a lot of CP to make it work.


Nice!

You can only Warptime one of them though right? Or were you not using matched play?

I was thinking the same thing. Also, how have the exalted sorcerers worked for you in other games? I've been toying with the idea of doing them.


Exalteds are...Pretty ok. With the new rule of 3 they're pretty much one of your only sources of getting more than 3 generic psykers, and their enhanced stats make them a bit more robust incase they actually see combat.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/29 14:27:53


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Atlanta

I’m a little slow, can someone explain to me what your actually accomplishing with this tactic other than popcorn transports?
   
 
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