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Hello and good evening everyone,

Just wanted to ask a couple of questions around the Maggotkin of Nurgle, New player to sigmar, have only ever played a couple of games but this was back during the release of Age Of Sigmar.

I have picked up the Maggotkin book, and have had a read through and really like the rotbringer models, blightkings, the blightkings on drones etc. Can you do a army as just a rotbringer force and if so is it viable for a competitive scene?.

Also what would you normally take in a Rotbringer list as kind of a all comers army.

Cheers

Welcome to the Garden!

Definitely get a feculent gnarlmaw, since the Maggotkin gives you one for free setup anyways.

All Rotbringers will be pretty darn strong! I think you should have Gutrot Spume to bring a unit of Blightkings in from any boardedge to get behind enemy lines. Also look to get a Harbinger of Decay to march up your mortals and grant them extra durability (via the command ability for the Harbinger).

Then also consider perhaps a sorcerer lord and/or that other Nurgley sorcerer to get use out of some interesting Maggotkin spells.

I haven't delved too deeply, but from the looks of the warscroll battalions, that Blightcyst one (I think that's it, with all the Blightkings) is pretty darn good giving Blightkings rend -1. The Plaguecyst is good too but the Lord of Plagues has to survive to make it work really well....and heroes are often easily sniped in Age of Sigmar.

Having a warscroll battalion nets you an additional artefact for another hero in your army, and one that uses battleline units means you can easily fit into the army list without spending extra points on battlelines outside of it. Also helps you go first by dropping down the whole battalion in one deployment drop.

So for a Rotbringers army I think something like this would be pretty good, though I'm not a Nurgle expert:

140 Gutrot Spume

220 Blight Cyst Battalion:
140 Lord of Blights
160 Harbinger of Decay (general)
120 Sorcerer
480 3x5 Blightkings

Then for a 2000 point army you could add maybe Bloab Rotspawned for more wizardry and monstrousness, some Pusgoyle Blightlords for speed, Festus the Leechlord could be good to wither enemy saving throws.

Being Nurgle, you could add other units like Chaos Warriors for backfield objective sitting perhaps....a Skaven Plaguepriest for buffing your wound rolls....some daemons like Beasts of Nurgle for tarpitting and mortal wound retreat tricks; or Nurglings for infiltration and annoyance. Some great options for Nurgle!

Hey, thank you for the reply, great deal of information there for me to go by.

I am also considering stormcast eternals simply as I have not really played aos, to start with I guess the " Space Marine " equivalent would be good for learning.

Not sure if they are any good overall though compared to other armies

Maggotkin are ok. They aren't going to be sitting on top tables, as such I don't consider them overly competitive. They don't do enough damage in my experience (they have been my primary army for the past couple years)

In a casual campaign environment they are quite fun though.

Ninth has a great thread discussing all things Nurgle in the tactics/lists subforum.

I think the Maggotkin could be competitive. The Blightcyst giving all the Blightkings rend -1 helps out nicely.

Throw a Great Unclean one with the bell and a big unit of pusgoyle blightlords becomes very fast coupled with a feculent gnarlmaw. Getting in position and being able to stay there on objectives is pretty key in winning games, and I think Nurgle can do that with a few tricks (like Gutrot Spume).

The Cycle of Corruption mechanic is also intriguing. Not sure how amazing compared to the Blood Tithe yet, but can't hurt!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the Maggotkin could be competitive. The Blightcyst giving all the Blightkings rend -1 helps out nicely.

Throw a Great Unclean one with the bell and a big unit of pusgoyle blightlords becomes very fast coupled with a feculent gnarlmaw. Getting in position and being able to stay there on objectives is pretty key in winning games, and I think Nurgle can do that with a few tricks (like Gutrot Spume).

The Cycle of Corruption mechanic is also intriguing. Not sure how amazing compared to the Blood Tithe yet, but can't hurt!

The Cycle of Corruption is cool but random. You can't plan around it as such.

Isn't there a spell that allows you to set the Cycle of Corruption? Haven't looked through the battletome in a while (been focusing on other armies), but I remember the spell at least let you move it.

 auticus wrote:
The Cycle of Corruption is cool but random. You can't plan around it as such.

Not only do all Nurgle wizards get Foul Regenesis to set the cycle, you can also pick the Grandfather's Blessing command trait to be able to set it forward/backwards once automatically. The only really random thing is where it starts. From the starting position you know where it will tick next, and you can start to factor in your chances to manipulate it through traits or spells with bonuses to cast etc.

I think it's cool too, and with good enough chances to try and bank on manipulating it if you want to, or just enjoy the bonuses as they come along.

Yes, and I tend to rely pretty heavily on it. That said, having the wrong army-wide buff and failing the spell to set the one you want can cause problems.

I see Maggotkin, rotbringers especially, being something like Primarch lists in 40k, a strong wall for competitive armies. Any army worth a chance at placing in any major competitive event will need to be able to deal with them, but the maggotkin will likely have a hard time placing themselves.

 auticus wrote:
Maggotkin are ok. They aren't going to be sitting on top tables, as such I don't consider them overly competitive. They don't do enough damage in my experience (they have been my primary army for the past couple years)

In a casual campaign environment they are quite fun though.

Plaguetouched battalion & blightkings being totally OP gives them some competitive tools. GUO, Bloab, and to a lesser extent Glottkin being undercosted doesn't hurt either. The only thing that stops Nurgle from topping tournaments isn't that they don't have OP builds it's that Stormcast have even more cheesy options and Tzeentch is all sorts of OP.


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 Fafnir wrote:
Yes, and I tend to rely pretty heavily on it. That said, having the wrong army-wide buff and failing the spell to set the one you want can cause problems.

I see Maggotkin, rotbringers especially, being something like Primarch lists in 40k, a strong wall for competitive armies. Any army worth a chance at placing in any major competitive event will need to be able to deal with them, but the maggotkin will likely have a hard time placing themselves.

I agree with both points, but note that good luck on the right rolls matters more than player skill when it comes down to where one ends up in the top 10%. Anyone who tops a tournament could easily have been 5th or lower had two or three 1d6 rolls for initiative gone the wrong way. Which is dumb, but oh well.

Yeah. When I say I don't think they are competitive I'm not saying that I think they are bad. But in a competitive environment I just don't think they can compete against the handful of things that truly bust the game wide open (that honestly need toned down, but hey I supposed we'll roll the dice with GHB 2018 in a few months to see what they do)

 auticus wrote:
Yeah. When I say I don't think they are competitive I'm not saying that I think they are bad. But in a competitive environment I just don't think they can compete against the handful of things that truly bust the game wide open (that honestly need toned down, but hey I supposed we'll roll the dice with GHB 2018 in a few months to see what they do)

I've really been impressed with the last two battletomes (really only one 'problem option' in each one), so I have high hopes at the moment.

We have a nurgle player that likes to "blow his nose" on the table, for you know..nurgles rot...its very off putting, but helps him win some games (for the expedient of not wanting our models on those spots) kinda gross, but effective.

If GHB 2018 can finally seal the holes brought about by the OP tzeentch, the OP stormcat builds, and the OP undead builds they let loose, I'll be in a much happier place yes, and then armies like nurgle would become decent in the powergaming stratosphere.

We have a few months though so here's hoping.

 auticus wrote:
If GHB 2018 can finally seal the holes brought about by the OP tzeentch, the OP stormcat builds, and the OP undead builds they let loose, I'll be in a much happier place yes, and then armies like nurgle would become decent in the powergaming stratosphere.

We have a few months though so here's hoping.

I am 100% sure there will be at least a half dozen totally OP options but there's a lot of room for improvement.


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 thekingofkings wrote:
We have a nurgle player that likes to "blow his nose" on the table, for you know..nurgles rot...its very off putting, but helps him win some games (for the expedient of not wanting our models on those spots) kinda gross, but effective.

Ew.

 auticus wrote:
Maggotkin are ok. They aren't going to be sitting on top tables, as such I don't consider them overly competitive. They don't do enough damage in my experience (they have been my primary army for the past couple years)

In a casual campaign environment they are quite fun though.

this is going to sound like self felating bs but I was on table 2 at adepticon this year on game 4 with my all mortal nurgle army. Had I used inspiring presence in an early turn rather then The Glotkins command ability I would have been playing for the overall win. Again that didnt happen so technically your point still stands and this is very close to being the most pathetic and pompous post of all time..somehow at the same time.. but MoN not being competitive is not true.


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Shinzra wrote:
Hello and good evening everyone,

Just wanted to ask a couple of questions around the Maggotkin of Nurgle, New player to sigmar, have only ever played a couple of games but this was back during the release of Age Of Sigmar.

I have picked up the Maggotkin book, and have had a read through and really like the rotbringer models, blightkings, the blightkings on drones etc. Can you do a army as just a rotbringer force and if so is it viable for a competitive scene?.

Also what would you normally take in a Rotbringer list as kind of a all comers army.

Cheers

If your going all rotbringer, check out the plaguetouched warband in the Everchosen book. Its 100 points for an INSANELY good warscroll battalion.

Congrats on your placing! I thiink in the tournament world nearly any army can make the top tables with the right person. Its just that as a trend, you'll see the same armies usually represented.

Maggotkin in general I thiink require a great player combined with good luck in their matchups though to make it that far.

In my tournament hey-day, I placed in the top 10 at the GW GTs pretty regularly with my chaos army (5th edition WHFB) or my vampire counts (6th and 7th) because they were busted. A guy from a nearby region that played against us once in a whiile also would place top 10 with beastmen (notoriously putrid) because he was just that damn good.

We have another local here that was placing top 10 in several regional GTs with Blood Angels scouts/tactical army for 40k. ... an army that has no business even playing in the middle tables he would walk up to the top tables with and pwn people.

Because he was just that good.

You'll get those guys every once in a while, and if you can place top tier with nurgle then that says you have a pretty firm grasp on the game's math and probability calculations which is a credit to you to take a middle tier army like nurgle and place high with them.

I suppose that’s true. I hope I didn’t come add as defensive. Maybe I am. And Nurgle is an army where you can’t lose faith. It’s an army that does wel late game. So having a positive mental attitude even when you get kicked in the teeth early rounds..being able to mentally stay in a game when the other player feels they are on cruise control is crucial!

And to your point I had great matchups to get there. Had I managed to get passed mike scaletti’s brass stampede, I would have been rofl stomped by the horror horde chnagehost. And had mike been able to get the major win on me (held him to a minor win) he probably would have gobbled upbthw chnagehost. As it was he lost to a DoK army in the final round. It’s funny how these kings shake out!

If the rumors I have heard are true (no more unitive roll..double turns gone) that is a huge buff to Nurgle armies as healing mechanics are way way better. I don’t mind the double turn..I know some people have it..but ugoigo would be a def. buff to Nurgle armies.

I've been running nurgle for about 18 months now. I do about 50/50. (When I'm running stormcast broken tournament build in comparison, I have about a 95% win rate and my tzeentch force is currently undefeated)

What usually kills my nurgle army when I lose is my opponent will focus fire on the heroes and drop them knowing that the blight kings and plague bearers really aren't doing anything on their own, and with the rules being what they are I can't really screen those heroes very well at all.

Its very much an army that relies on its buffs and then some hot diice to tank against the spammiing of mortal wounds that come in the competitive environment.

If my dice are hot, and I can get into mid game, with some heroes remaining I can do well. If my dice are average or cold, I'm usually done by turn 3 against those armies.

In a casual campaign environment, I do pretty well with them. If not wins then close games.

The reality is if you go against Stormcast or Tzeentch there isn't much you can do. Or against anything shooting/magic heavy that gets round 1-2 double but that's a given.

But then, this is true for almost every army.

Yeah I'd agree. Which ties into my opinion if the army is "competitive" or not. If it can't tango with the broken builds, that is to me an indicator that it is not.

Thing is, those broken builds are one FAQ/updated/GHB away from being mediocre to slightly above average. A change to the way shooting or hero targeting works could go a long way to balancing the game, and seeing how much GW has done to balance 40k over the past year tells me they're going to be making much broader changes to AoS in the near future.

removing random turns would too

The difficulty will be making hero-sniping harder without removing it. Because removing it entirely would also break the game entirely, but right now it's a big excessive how easily 5-wound characters can be sniped. Of course removing random initiative (or just pushing the first roll to round 3) would help with that significantly as well as addressing other issues including the shooting/magic meta in general.

[deleted]

 EnTyme wrote:
Thing is, those broken builds are one FAQ/updated/GHB away from being mediocre to slightly above average. A change to the way shooting or hero targeting works could go a long way to balancing the game, and seeing how much GW has done to balance 40k over the past year tells me they're going to be making much broader changes to AoS in the near future.

My deepest hope is that they fix hero targeting and the inane shooting rules post-haste to make the game more immersive and like what a narrative battle would be like. And yes if they did fix those things, that would make the broken garbage a lot less powerful. Some abilities to "hero snipe" would be ok. But this ridiculousness of entire enemy armies targeting Bob the Chaos Warlord standing behind 20 of his guys because his pinky finger is exposed needs quashed.

Really just everything catering to not needing to really position models but simply get in range needs quashed. Positioning and maneuvering have ALWAYS been a part of wargaming and is a big part of what makes battles feel like battles.

 auticus wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
Thing is, those broken builds are one FAQ/updated/GHB away from being mediocre to slightly above average. A change to the way shooting or hero targeting works could go a long way to balancing the game, and seeing how much GW has done to balance 40k over the past year tells me they're going to be making much broader changes to AoS in the near future.

My deepest hope is that they fix hero targeting and the inane shooting rules post-haste to make the game more immersive and like what a narrative battle would be like. And yes if they did fix those things, that would make the broken garbage a lot less powerful. Some abilities to "hero snipe" would be ok. But this ridiculousness of entire enemy armies targeting Bob the Chaos Warlord standing behind 20 of his guys because his pinky finger is exposed needs quashed.

Really just everything catering to not needing to really position models but simply get in range needs quashed. Positioning and maneuvering have ALWAYS been a part of wargaming and is a big part of what makes battles feel like battles.

I agree with your last to a point, the hero sniping and positioning thing should not devolve into tedious and meticulous need but should keep the spirit of AoS which IMO is faster play, maybe require sniper to pick a hero out of a unit? or something like that? mebbe a "look out sir" kind of thing?

We've been using variant of look out sir. It helps, and is acceptable to me.

I also like the LOTR way of doing things, where you take a -1 to hit for every obstacle, terrain, or enemy model you are crossing to hit your target.

 auticus wrote:
We've been using variant of look out sir. It helps, and is acceptable to me.

I also like the LOTR way of doing things, where you take a -1 to hit for every obstacle, terrain, or enemy model you are crossing to hit your target.

I hope we never get anything like this. Idoneth just got the 40k targeting thing as an army specific rule, it'd be a real silly thing if that becomes the norm.