Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Does anyone else notice this? It seems like 9 out of 10 people you meet in a day are some mixture of depressed/angry/sulky/or rude. Myself included. Lately I've noticed that I tend to snap at people much more easily than I used to, especially when related to political or social topics. I see a lot of general negativity online and offline these days, and it seems to be more than usual. With all of the things going on in the world, I can sort of understand that many people feel trapped or backed into a corner for one reason or another. But, it's kind of frightening once you realize you aren't immune and that it has gotten a hold of you too.

I sort of feel as though reasonable discourse, the ability to "agree to disagree" has died a slow death. There are so many "either or" fallacies being spread around these days, nowhere more so than the political theater [At least here in the US]. I used to have republican and liberal friends, but a lot of them won't talk to me because I'm a "fence sitting Independent" and they won't talk to each other because one accuses the other of being an "Obama Muslim immigrant loving commie" while the other screams about gender, race and police. I mean really, I've actually seen some of my friends fight in this manner, and they look like two blind people on opposite sides of a road trying to fist fight each other, when in reality they're sparring off with a couple of Saguaro Cacti.

I try to do things like help the homeless, smile at people and wish them a nice day when I can. But even then, the negativity still feels overwhelming.

Heck, I even see it in my hobbies. Lots of arguments over "MLG vs Casuals" and the like. People accusing others of cheating, making fun of their choice in paint jobs! What's the deal?

Here is something that can be helpful: unplug from news, talking heads and preachy FB or other stuff for a bit. It's like a whiny pessimist constantly whispering in your ear.

 Frazzled wrote:
Here is something that can be helpful: unplug from news, talking heads and preachy FB or other stuff for a bit. It's like a whiny pessimist constantly whispering in your ear.

No doubt. I've actually set my FB account up in such a way that all I see are the following.

Posts from my mother and father (all good)
National Park photos, programs and information
Space Pictures
Miniature Painting.
Weather stuff (because I am an armchair chaser)

On the news side, I stopped reading it a while back and only sparingly read it now. I'm actually noticing this stuff coming from physical people now.

1. Tell them to call their tits and get on the happy train.
2. My FB has tanks, Weiner dogs, and sarcastic humor.

 Frazzled wrote:
1. Tell them to call their tits and get on the happy train.
2. My FB has tanks, Weiner dogs, and sarcastic humor.

Weiner dogs are what make the world a better place.

I've definitely tried to play peacemaker, but sometimes I feel like the dude from the TNG episode who couldn't speak. He was a diplomat and had to learn how to communicate and do his job without his proxies because they were killed. It was extremely difficult for him.

I guess I just wonder to myself sometimes, can we put the blame for this on anyone but ourselves?

Let me relate a story:

I have a couple of very good friends from Syria. They're actually both Armenian, and they're from Aleppo originally, though they came to the US many, many years ago. They're married to each other and the Husband is an PhD Research level astronomer. Recently they were traveling for their annual vacation and they love to visit Japan on these excursions. I was discussing their trip with them and they had told me that a lot of the negativity that is so pervasive here doesn't exist there. Ms. PhD used the phrase "The Japanese treat you like a person, they're respectful and kind."

I found this comment to be quite interesting, because on some level I already knew this was the case just knowing how that culture works. Respect and dignity is kind of built into the Japanese, which can be both a good and bath thing depending on the situation. But I realized that they aren't struggling with the same kinds of things that we are.

Yeah you've pretty much got the assessment right IMO.

Our politicians may represent the worse side of us, but that means they are still a respresentation of us. Which ties into the topic because, quite frankly, our politics is filled with nasty, selfish people because ON AVERAGE we are nasty selfish people. Making an excuse to get out of jury duty, speeding forward in the exit lane to cut into traffic, or even just pirating video games is the common citizen's equivalent to what we readily criticize people in power for.

And a huge factor that should not go unstated is that rich people have so much influence these days; they are and have always been especially preoccupied with harming society for their own short-term gain. And they foster social conflic among the lower classes to distract from them doing it, often by pegging a specific group of people (immigrants are a favorite) as a scape goat.

 Frazzled wrote:
1. Tell them to call their tits and get on the happy train.
2. My FB has tanks, Weiner dogs, and sarcastic humor.

"Hello, is this Tits? I would like one ticket for the Happy Train. Yeah sure, I'll take the complementary Happy Ending." - Frazzled, probably

I decided to become a hermit..... that has helped a lot.

I have realized that the circumstance is more or less analogous to that youtube video of a guy jumping into a cactus. Which is to say, pretty dam funny. I am genuinely more amused these days than annoyed by the symptoms we are discussing, by a fair margin.

Yeah. I've been seeing it. I had a conversation with a friend go something like this, last Wednesday:

me: (Talking about pendulum theory being part of the reason for the rise of the far right)
them: "God you're way too republican."
me: "I haven't supported a republican for office in, like, ever. I've voted green party before for feth's sake."
them: "Then why do you always support them?"
me: "When did I support them? And which republican?"
them: "You always take their side! Like when you go on about why white people voted for Trump! And when you talk bad about liberals but never republicans!"
me: "Look, literally every single time for the last several years anyone has mentioned a Republican's name in any context in your presence, you immediately say precisely how it is that you feel about Republicans, as a whole. The reason I don't bother saying anything about Republicans isn't because I want to defend or support them. It's because of the fact that the news, comedians, talk shows, the internet as a whole, and you immediately spew your unsolicited opinions of them, which is consistently the same angry but ultimately hollow "feth trump" or whatever. It's not just empty, it's kind of boring at this point. Yes. The Republican party is largely fethed. Yes, it's a dog and pony show, all around. No, saying it now isn't going to do anything more than give you your Five Minutes of Hate, and that's not really got you over this yet in the last few years, so if you don't mind, I'd like to hear the radio now please."
them: (Angry silence for the rest of the trip)

I fell like there's at least one generation who has felt all their hopes dies, and that probably doesn't help. I'm sure a lot of people are still fine and have got theirs, but not as many as there used to be.

I’ve managed to make it pretty clear that I have zero interest in talking about anything political at work. It was already somewhat easy to blow people off, but now I just hide behind my political restrictions due to wearing a uniform and people manage to leave me the fetch alone with their political bull crap.
I also managed to extend that to social media and I have a Facebook feed that consists of shower thoughts and pictures of my kids for my distant family to enjoy.

There are 4 people that I will usually talk politics with, either on Facebook messenger or in person. The only reason I talk with them is because we can disagree politely and spend a couple hours shooting the crap without either of us getting pissed off at each other. I’m the token liberal, they are pretty conservative, but we have a libertarian streak that gives us a little common ground. We have also all done public service in various uniforms, so we take comfort in knowing that aside from bitching about politicians and policies we have all taken time and poured sweat and blood to make our communities a better place for everyone.

People have always disagreed, we just need to get back to disagreeing without being disagreeable.

Politics-wise, I use Twitter a lot and I'm left-of-centre, but still fairly centre, so I daren't say anything. The only side social media/general internet political extremsists hate more than the opposing one is the centre; that's probably the biggest unifier between extreme left/right, that no matter how awful the other side is, they can all agree centrists are worse.

Politics aside... I still daren't say a whole lot online. There's little you can say outside of whichever echo chamber would suit your viewpoint that won't elicit hostile responses from people looking for arguments.

Real life I've less experience with, given I rarely interact with people in any meaningful way. I've never come across shouting public shouting matches, and whatever heated debates/arguments I've seen or been part of have generally been swept aside after a few minutes of cooling off and terse conversation. The general feel of people where I am hasn't changed much, people are still largely civil, but that's the North of England for you; the further down South and East you go, the more I'd wager it's a completely different story

I live in Michigan, where people are notoriously rude and Ive got to say.....it feels about the same really

I own two businesses that are public facing and it is always amazing to me the number of people who walk in and just start spewing their misery at me. I guess they need someone to talk to and I am as good as anyone. I generally just nod and mumble some words of empathy.

Regarding politics, I live in a very Conservative town. A local Democratic politician hired us for an event. It was hilarious how our business fell in half after that event as many regulars stopped showing up once they all assumed we were Democrats. Now, my wife and I jokingly refer to our businesses as the "Democrat" business in private. All because we took a job and got paid for it. Crazy!

Interesting topic.

Focusing on the bad:
My impression is that it is easier to be motivated by anger and general unhappiness, even news is completely geared toward bad news.
It is "easier" for everyone to respond negatively.
We have so many venues for this to be presented to us.

Lately there is a fair bit of VERY negative and worrying things in the world:
- Trump and his behavior is really scary for a leader in charge of the "most powerful nation in the world".
- Russia's government is doing pretty much whatever they feel like and getting bolder with each success.
- Brexit is really making a mess of the EU with what little stability that afforded.
- More than ever mass-murder-suicides are prevalent in the world, why kill yourself quietly when you can kill a bunch of people and go out with a bang?
- There is more... fanaticism, a general feeling of misery and there absolutely needs to be a change, any change is better right? We seem to have less imagination now: it REALLY can get a lot worse, not ANY change at all is for the better.
- Economic stability is still an issue. NA free trade agreement being looked at again, China getting aggravated, Britain cant figure out how they will interface with their neighbors the EU, heck, here in Canada our bloody provinces are into oil pipeline and free trade wars.
- I am from a generation that was born before the internet and cell phones (that makes me sound positively ancient). It is incredibly tough to be in a meeting with some of the younger generation and I make zero eye contact the entire time because they are on their phone the whole time. I had to send a text saying "Have you been following a single word I have said?"... he had not. Unfortunately, the recent social dynamic seems more isolationist than the much touted collaborative: I simply do not see working together geling better than even the last one or two decades. I will happily try anything suggested and even that is lacking... too much passive rather than active behavior.

Focusing on the good:
We can choose more than ever before to subscribe to what is important to us so we have a wee bit more control on what is presented to us.
We can reach out to anyone in an inexpensive and very present way like never before.
We can easily join groups and band together and coordinate in real time in ways I could not have dreamed of in my teens.
We have access within seconds to information we would have needed to go to a library or call up someone you know who has the knowledge.

Possible reasons:

I think my bitchiness is derived from: what is my purpose?
I try to point my children to easily obtained knowledge and they have no will or want to explore it (that I would have killed for as a teenager).
I work on things and try to demonstrate I have brought some nice things in the world and others easily point out there is MUCH better examples out there (because there is ALWAYS someone better than you out there). So these efforts are "cute" but pointless.
I try to invest in my local community and my general surroundings and it still feels like "every man for himself", you are a fool to speak of social conscience and local activism.

I loved the advent of Kickstarter or crowdfunding, at last a means of getting the garage inventor resources. Most stuff I got into fell through or became a garbage form of pre-pay for companies.

I think I need to buy a 3D printer so I can at least be happy on my own tinkering and making what makes me happy: depending on others for your happiness appears to be foolish as well.

As a teenager I dreamed of virtual reality.
My son got a VR headset.
I think he did some 20 sessions with it and it collects dust now.

Passion, excitement, drive... I just do not see it.
A little excitement? Please?

I think this is why I am "driven" to Dakka, we all like tabletop or at least the models right?
We know that the act of doing the hobby is fun.

Ignorance can be bliss, we are surrounded with so much information of others FAR better at something than we are so why even bother to try right?

Performing tasks however humble to the best of your ability is a worthy thing, seeing ineffectual behavior is distressing to see, it begs the question: what are saving yourself up for?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I have realized that the circumstance is more or less analogous to that youtube video of a guy jumping into a cactus. Which is to say, pretty dam funny. I am genuinely more amused these days than annoyed by the symptoms we are discussing, by a fair margin.

I had to go see this. WHY WOULD HE DO THAT?

 Togusa wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I have realized that the circumstance is more or less analogous to that youtube video of a guy jumping into a cactus. Which is to say, pretty dam funny. I am genuinely more amused these days than annoyed by the symptoms we are discussing, by a fair margin.

I had to go see this. WHY WOULD HE DO THAT?

So that someone could offhandedly talk about some guy jumping into a cactus somewhere and anyone who went to find the video would immediately and only find the video of him doing it.

Some people do crazy gak for attention.

 d-usa wrote:
I’ve managed to make it pretty clear that I have zero interest in talking about anything political at work. It was already somewhat easy to blow people off, but now I just hide behind my political restrictions due to wearing a uniform and people manage to leave me the fetch alone with their political bull crap.
I also managed to extend that to social media and I have a Facebook feed that consists of shower thoughts and pictures of my kids for my distant family to enjoy.

There are 4 people that I will usually talk politics with, either on Facebook messenger or in person. The only reason I talk with them is because we can disagree politely and spend a couple hours shooting the crap without either of us getting pissed off at each other. I’m the token liberal, they are pretty conservative, but we have a libertarian streak that gives us a little common ground. We have also all done public service in various uniforms, so we take comfort in knowing that aside from bitching about politicians and policies we have all taken time and poured sweat and blood to make our communities a better place for everyone.

People have always disagreed, we just need to get back to disagreeing without being disagreeable.

This has been the hard thing for me. I'm in that extremely awkward position, such that I work for a University. My coworkers are all a good 10 to 15 years older than myself. But all of the students are a good 10 years younger than me. Making a connection with either side has so far met with extreme failure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 daedalus wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I have realized that the circumstance is more or less analogous to that youtube video of a guy jumping into a cactus. Which is to say, pretty dam funny. I am genuinely more amused these days than annoyed by the symptoms we are discussing, by a fair margin.

I had to go see this. WHY WOULD HE DO THAT?

So that someone could offhandedly talk about some guy jumping into a cactus somewhere and anyone who went to find the video would immediately and only find the video of him doing it.

Some people do crazy gak for attention.

True, but holy cow what did that poor man think would happen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkxIHXKlkeo

Many days I feel like this poor bird.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I fell like there's at least one generation who has felt all their hopes dies, and that probably doesn't help. I'm sure a lot of people are still fine and have got theirs, but not as many as there used to be.

There is a lot of truth here. I worked my rear end off, didn't party, drink or smoke. I have no criminal record. What I got to show for is was 60K in debt that is taking 56% of my monthly income and that doesn't even pay the debt, just the interest. I live in a terrible crime ridden town, with rude people and very few decent friends (I have to drive 125 miles one way just to play warhammer with my good friends once per week). I doesn't seem fair, but I have trouble with that thought because I wasn't raised to believe that life is fair. Still, it shot be at least marginally fair shouldn't it?

I hear you.

Might be worth looking into the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program if that debt is student loans, and then make income based payments on those loans.

 d-usa wrote:
Might be worth looking into the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program if that debt is student loans, and then make income based payments on those loans.

Believe me, I've tried. A lot of the programs I used to use are gone now under the new US Administration. I am making my payments though, I haven't missed a single one in over 17 months of paying. When possible I also do pay extra as well. But, it's quite disheartening. The salaries do not match or haven't kept up with inflation. Not to mention my small employer can't pay me what the national average is for my career. But the other potential employers also won't hire me because 17 months experience just isn't enough for them.

Some days its like you're fethed for doing good, and you're fethed for doing bad. No matter what you do, you just get fethed!

A big problem is the general lack of self-awareness. Just look at the amount of adult temper tantrums that are thrown in public these days. The older I get the more adults act like babies in my eyes.

Only thing that bothers me more is the indignation. If you're a rude little dicksmack. you're not above receiving the same treatment.

 Togusa wrote:

True, but holy cow what did that poor man think would happen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkxIHXKlkeo

Many days I feel like this poor bird.

Oh I know. I have a hard time turning away even when I know how it's going to turn out. Reminded me of the hypodermic scene from Saw 2 (or whichever one that was).

It is rather funny where most women would say that men need to express their "feelings".
Problem is they really do not want to hear them and find most of them a turn-off.
Now though, in the land of personal freedoms, people are entitled to expressing their feelings no matter how disruptive they may be.
I agree there is a marked amount of "man-baby" behavior.
You have a problem?
Go fix it or ignore/move-on, griping about it is ok to do once, then terribly irritating to others when it drags on.
I am seriously considering implementing the "hurt feelings report".

My kids tend to say the words:
"It's not fair!"
My thoughts:
"The world is not obligated to be fair."
My interpretation:
"I don't like it!"
Heaven help me when I ask the question:
"What would you suggest?"
Then the most "unfair" and unreasonable drivel comes out and that is not just from my children.

No-one wants equality.
They just want to be the one in charge with none of the responsibility.

I can not just communicate on forums without being accused of all kinds of atrocities from the bloody Stalinist regime to the bombing of pregnant Arab children.

 Freakazoitt wrote:
I can not just communicate on forums without being accused of all kinds of atrocities from the bloody Stalinist regime to the bombing of pregnant Arab children.

Or a recent favorite of crushing kittens with bricks.
Funny how if you do not agree with someone you are suddenly placed in the same group as history's worst villains.

"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Mind you, being polite helps.
Nothing causes a breakdown in civility than when people get rude... unless they are good friends, then it is comedy.

I think part of the problem is the medium we are using.

If you were sitting next to somebody that was 6 feet 5 and 18 stone, you'd be reluctant to hurl abuse at them.

But sitting on a laptop or using a phone allows you to hurl abuse at people until your heart's content.

We also can't communicate the subtle facial and body language signs over the web that we take for granted in a face to face social encounter, so often what we say comes across wrong, when we know that a smile or a friendly pat on the shoulder would show the person we weren't being serious.

 Togusa wrote:
[
There is a lot of truth here. I worked my rear end off, didn't party, drink or smoke. I have no criminal record. What I got to show for is was 60K in debt that is taking 56% of my monthly income and that doesn't even pay the debt, just the interest. I live in a terrible crime ridden town, with rude people and very few decent friends (I have to drive 125 miles one way just to play warhammer with my good friends once per week). I doesn't seem fair, but I have trouble with that thought because I wasn't raised to believe that life is fair. Still, it shot be at least marginally fair shouldn't it?

I was a lot like you, but for one small difference. I went to college on a free ride scholarship. What I was majoring in (Mechanical Engineering) was one of those few fields where I could have realistically paid off a loan in a few years if I had gotten a student loan, making close to $100,000 starting wage. I ended up taking 300 and 400 level classes as electives, and found out that if I took a few key classes in my last semester I could graduate with a duel major. However, then an economic collapse happened, and a career that was all ready physical and emotionally draining got worse. After 2 years I quit, and bought my own business in my home town. Sure, I took a 40% pay cut, but I'm around family, the hours suck less, and I have a 2 minute commute.

I can definitely say I’ve felt myself becoming more angry and irritable in the past couple years. I live in an area where a large portion of people are...entitled. Trying to be very tactful, but it often feels like I speak the wrong language these days. And I do mean English. In America. The USA version.