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So, uh...

https://twitter.com/FFGames/status/991365791017730049?s=19

Yeah. Here we go!

Ouch... the conversion boxes are $50 each and have to wait till September to get it

Unless I want to get killed at Gen Con trying to buy a box

Hm. Wasn't expecting that. Hopefully there's less useless ships, pilots, and upgrades. Could also serve to fix power creep

Hmm... Seems then I've got rather a lot of card that will need recycling... I wonder if anyone wants to take up extreme tablet weaving...

Any idea if the new dice are the same as the old dice?

 Genoside07 wrote:
Ouch... the conversion boxes are $50 each and have to wait till September to get it

Unless I want to get killed at Gen Con trying to buy a box

And I'm guessing anyone with an extensive collection is going to require more than one box to fully update their collection.

I'm sort of glad my x-wing group fell apart now.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Genoside07 wrote:
Ouch... the conversion boxes are $50 each and have to wait till September to get it

Unless I want to get killed at Gen Con trying to buy a box

And I'm guessing anyone with an extensive collection is going to require more than one box to fully update their collection.

I'm sort of glad my x-wing group fell apart now.

Not if the squadron builder stuff goes online, and certainly not for casual play. One copy of a card for reference and then cut out some paper markers for the rest, or simply write the list down.

Yeah, most likely with dials, deck and dice unless there are major changes I'll be good. Chances of me getting with 12 parsecs of a tournament are low...

The game has needed this badly for a long time. Bring it on!

 Flinty wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Genoside07 wrote:
Ouch... the conversion boxes are $50 each and have to wait till September to get it

Unless I want to get killed at Gen Con trying to buy a box

And I'm guessing anyone with an extensive collection is going to require more than one box to fully update their collection.

I'm sort of glad my x-wing group fell apart now.

Not if the squadron builder stuff goes online, and certainly not for casual play. One copy of a card for reference and then cut out some paper markers for the rest, or simply write the list down.

You're also going to need new maneuver dials, base inserts and, in some cases, bases (there's a new medium size for stuff like the Punisher.)

As someone on my club's FB page has already noted, to run a traditional TIE swarm you'd need two conversion boxes, or a good printer, a sharp knife and a lot of patience. Side note, TIEs appear to have a bullseye arc now.

I've said I'd be happy to pay to update to a 2nd edition, and I stand by that, but if it feels like these conversion packs are double dipping on existing customers rather than providing the people who've helped get the ga,e where it is a means to keep playing, I may well drop the whole game altogether. But that's 6 months away, lots of water to run under a lot of bridges between now and then.

Fair point on the maneuver dials.

It also seems that Slave 1 goes scum only. Does that mean the title card or the whole Firespray? Probably the latter :(

 Azreal13 wrote:

As someone on my club's FB page has already noted, to run a traditional TIE swarm you'd need two conversion boxes, or a good printer, a sharp knife and a lot of patience. Side note, TIEs appear to have a bullseye arc now.

They are demanding that we buy the new Core set, so with that you'll end up with enough dials to run 6 TIEs. That's been the appropriate number for long enough I don't think its a bad call. The traditional swarms were largely a result of a lack of options. I notice with my own collection the number of duplicates of things I have drops sharply after Wave 4 and honestly this going to be a good time to offload stuff I have too many of to be worth it.

I still have trouble comprehending that the Imperial pack has the components for 3 Decimators but only 2 Defenders, 2 Star Wings and 4 TIEs (and to a lesser extent 3 Aggressors - though I fully understand that's more of a personal thing because most people wouldn't have bought 4 of them like I did).

Don't forget the app! You know, the app that you will need to actually play the game now? The app that will be required at all official X-Wing events? The app that will make or break the game if they frak it up?

The game has been in need of an overhaul for a while now. Let's see what FFG does!

One the one hand the App is a nice idea as it permits all kinds of neat balancing to happen. On the down side when support for the game finally gets dropped there will be no possible way to play it as all the points values will be gone. Maybe that's a bit too forward looking however...

I hate the idea of an app needed to play as I don't own a smart device...

So Turrets have changed,
ordnance is now multi shot with the number of uses on the card, force abilities are in,
squadron abilities maybe in,
medium bases are in,
all ships gain the bullseye arc,
the phases have been renamed to make things clearer (hopefully).
Upgrades are now limited to specific pilots.
Multi actions at once are a thing without cards like PTL.
Actions can now cause stress.
Wave 14 stuff is multi edition.
Reserves are now a thing with new placement options.
Some titles and abilities are now baked into the ship.
Scuurg and Firespray are now Scum only.
Looks like regenerate is now an action.
Pilot skill have gone down accross the board.
Resistance and FO are now their own uniqu factions.

Like the looks of it so far (beyond the app) but not liking $350 US just to update my ships.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
New templates are easier to sort bumps.
Revamp of the organised play system (mostly just renaming stuff seemingly).
200pts system, though we cant tell that because nothing is costed on the card because that's now on the app only (except for GW like power levels).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
New Y-Wing and Fang fighter models with the core set X-Wing being the new moveable wings one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lambda finally gets a rear arc!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And a new damage deck so the new core is a must.

Not have printed points cost is BS, App is BS, so far, not exactly happy with this. And yet I'm going to have to buy it.

Apparently there will be a PDF to print out, think I will just write in pencil on the cards so I can keep it up to date.

this app . you, FFG this is stupid design and going backwards on one of X-Wing's strengths.

So evades just change a dice now instead of adding a result.

 Peregrine wrote:
this app . you, FFG this is stupid design and going backwards on one of X-Wing's strengths.

Don't hold back, say what you mean

 Graphite wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
this app . you, FFG this is stupid design and going backwards on one of X-Wing's strengths.

Don't hold back, say what you mean

I'm with Peregrine on this one, am still curious to see how it pans out but making the app more or less mandatory is pants on head daft

I'll agree that only having the app seems foolish. Put the squad values in a .pdf where you can get them without a smart phone and it should be OK, though. Would require updates for fine tuning.

They are. So its okay! They are also making their own version of the numerous squad builders that are out at the moment.

So, some good stuff definitely, cleaning up the bloated mess that the rules have become, improving balance, and apparently scaling back some of the power/complexity creep and dice inflation that has become a problem. Most of it seems ok, or at least ok enough that I'm willing to give it a try before I dislike it. But there are definitely some things I am not happy with:

1) App-only list building is so ing stupid. One of X-Wing's biggest strengths has been the fact that everything you need for a card is printed on the card itself. Need to know what upgrades you have? Read your card. Need the point costs? Read the cards. No flipping through rulebooks, no trying to remember rules because your phone died and you can't get the rules app. Now that's gone and you're going to be spending way too much time on the app instead of playing the game. And even worse is the hints about different costs in different tournament formats, bans/rotations, etc. Stupid gimmick formats need to die, not be encouraged. I'm afraid that list building is going to become far more of a mess and for negligible gain.

2) The pre-made ships are fine, but dammit FFG they had better stay a newbie teaching thing. Building your own squad is a key part of the game, both in fun and strategy. The idea that was mentioned of the pre-made ships being used for organized play events needs to die, now. It's a really stupid idea and the community needs to collectively say "NO".

3) I'm disappointed that the biggest problem with the core rules was not addressed at all: coupling accuracy and firepower. You can't make a ship more likely to hit without also making it deal more damage, which puts ships like the a-wing at a huge disadvantage and makes clumsy bombers with their 4-dice weapons the best counter to aces instead of the slow big-stuff killers they should be. It kind of "works" if you scale back the dice inflation, and maybe 2.0 will be like the early days of the game where coupling wasn't that big an issue and it kind of worked out about right in the end. But it puts the game in a dangerous situation where dice inflation can quickly put us right back to the current problem, and dice inflation is a very difficult problem to avoid.

4) I am concerned about the nerfs to shields ("we need to make crits matter") and apparently to HP regen (R2-D2 being much weaker and limited to three uses). In the current game rebel regen is the counter to imperial arc dodging and token piles: rebel ships take damage but repair it, imperial ships never take damage. Both have their strengths, and both are viable endgame strategies. But if you kill off regen as an endgame strategy while not imposing a similar nerf on the imperial side you completely break imperial aces. Granted, the changes so far seem to be a nerf to token stacking, but if Soontir Fel keeps his current arc dodging ability it won't matter. You can't hit something that isn't in arc, especially with turrets getting a massive nerf. So you end up with a game where rebel ships will eventually lose any game that goes more than a few turns, while imperial players can have their aces stick around forever. And that is not balanced or fun.

5) I'm not convinced on the PS changes. Yeah, VI was a problem, but it was also the only thing allowing lower-PS ships to exist at all. Now you simply get out maneuvered if you don't bring PS 6. And encouraging ties makes initiative far more important, driving ridiculous bids. IMO the PS system needed more of a fix than this seems to be, and I'm not convinced that the new system is an improvement.

6) I'm also not convinced on the action economy nerfs. Yeah, PTL was an auto-take a lot of the time, but it was also the only thing that allowed a diverse action bar to matter. If using a repositioning action (or action upgrade, etc) means giving up on dice modification it encourages no-outcome exchanges where you boost/BR out of arc but can't return fire effectively and the turn is wasted. And it increases the value of jousting ships that mindlessly line up and exchange dice, since focusing is still the best action when you joust effectively. And as bad as arc dodgers can be currently driving the game in the direction of BBBBZ style jousting lists is a really dumb idea.

On your number 4 Peregrine, the designers have said the change to how barrel rolls work is intended to limit the effectiveness of arc dodging.
Personally I really like the change to how multiple actions work as it makes it a real toss up between what actions/stress actions you can/want to take and when.

Also Evade Tokens now change one Green Dice result to an Evade, rather than just flat out adding an additional Evade result, so token stacking won't be enitely as powerful.

 ingtaer wrote:
On your number 4 Peregrine, the designers have said the change to how barrel rolls work is intended to limit the effectiveness of arc dodging.
Personally I really like the change to how multiple actions work as it makes it a real toss up between what actions/stress actions you can/want to take and when.

It's a limit, but not a very significant one. You're talking about a quarter ship base worth of difference, perpendicular to the primary direction of the barrel roll. The left/right displacement, the main reason you do it, is unchanged. And if you want forward displacement boosting is also unchanged.

 Peregrine wrote:

1) App-only list building is so ing stupid. One of X-Wing's biggest strengths has been the fact that everything you need for a card is printed on the card itself. Need to know what upgrades you have? Read your card. Need the point costs? Read the cards. No flipping through rulebooks, no trying to remember rules because your phone died and you can't get the rules app. Now that's gone and you're going to be spending way too much time on the app instead of playing the game. And even worse is the hints about different costs in different tournament formats, bans/rotations, etc. Stupid gimmick formats need to die, not be encouraged. I'm afraid that list building is going to become far more of a mess and for negligible gain.

This could be a major problem in rural america where a lot of gamers are; cell phone reception is a major thing and most game shops do not supply free wi fi.. I really don't like this either... I play the table top games to put down my phone for an hour or two.. Now I need it
as a part of a game.. GW did something like this with their points I understand but they supplied it in a physical copy.. App building should be an option, not a requirement.

There will be a PDF download.

The App is goint to be a problem if done the wrong way
but the FAQ says App/Website and as long as doing the list at home and print it out is possible everything is ok