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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I read somewhere that buried in the old fluff there was a rumor that one of the Traitor Legions was, in fact, still deeply loyal to the Emperor and they were waiting for a key moment to turn back and wipe out the other eight Traitor Legions.

Is this an actual thing?
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

That rumor is about Alpha Legion. With anything Alpha Legion, it could be true, it might not be true, and GW is in no way going to feel obligated to stick to it as canon at any point in the future.

So think of them as loyalists. It doesn't matter, they can be Chaos tomorrow.

   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




phydaux wrote:
I read somewhere that buried in the old fluff there was a rumor that one of the Traitor Legions was, in fact, still deeply loyal to the Emperor and they were waiting for a key moment to turn back and wipe out the other eight Traitor Legions.

Is this an actual thing?


It may have been true at some point years ago. But with the current fluff it is patently untrue. Alpha Legion is FULL chaos. And seeing the things they have done, I doubt the imperium would have them back, seeing as they are one of two main culprits who ushered in the maledictum and split the galaxy in two. I don't know why so many hang on to this old lore. If it even was old lore as I have never (not saying it isn't there) seen actual lore to propagate this way of thought. Either way. AL are pure traitors.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Table wrote:
phydaux wrote:
I read somewhere that buried in the old fluff there was a rumor that one of the Traitor Legions was, in fact, still deeply loyal to the Emperor and they were waiting for a key moment to turn back and wipe out the other eight Traitor Legions.

Is this an actual thing?


It may have been true at some point years ago. But with the current fluff it is patently untrue. Alpha Legion is FULL chaos. And seeing the things they have done, I doubt the imperium would have them back, seeing as they are one of two main culprits who ushered in the maledictum and split the galaxy in two. I don't know why so many hang on to this old lore. If it even was old lore as I have never (not saying it isn't there) seen actual lore to propagate this way of thought. Either way. AL are pure traitors.


Agreed. I hold it in the same esteem as Abaddon having no arms at this point with the tired old meme status it has become.

Whatever the AL intended with The Cabal has long since disappeared.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




If you look at Alpha Legion background in the 2nd edition Chaos Codex, it describes how they started waging their own campaign and setting their own military objectives without real reference to what others were doing.

Their "degeneration" may take a different form than just physical mutation. They may very well still think they are fighting for a goal, but they may be deceiving themselves. They may set military objectives as if they were still fighting some organized campaign, but the real objective may simply be to cause random mayhem. They may have lost their true purpose without knowing it.

For example, they may justify raiding and blowing up Imperial supply depots or capturing interstellar transports as disrupting the Imperium's supply lines, but their true effect on the overall logistical situation may be minor, insignificant or irrelevant (if for example the sector has surplus capacity or is not actively engaged in war). In reality, it may just be piracy under a different name, even if they don't themselves believe it to be such.

Even those in the Alpha Legion that believe themselves loyalists in the long run may succumb to this erosion of purpose. Their attacks might be justified as "serving the long term interests of humanity and the Emperor", even though it really just amounts to smash and grab raiding.

With their decentralized structure, it may also be a situation of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Instead of any coherent plan, they might just be individual units acting like any other warband, though in this case they might still be convinced they are serving some higher purpose.
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Iracundus wrote:
If you look at Alpha Legion background in the 2nd edition Chaos Codex, it describes how they started waging their own campaign and setting their own military objectives without real reference to what others were doing.

Their "degeneration" may take a different form than just physical mutation. They may very well still think they are fighting for a goal, but they may be deceiving themselves. They may set military objectives as if they were still fighting some organized campaign, but the real objective may simply be to cause random mayhem. They may have lost their true purpose without knowing it.

For example, they may justify raiding and blowing up Imperial supply depots or capturing interstellar transports as disrupting the Imperium's supply lines, but their true effect on the overall logistical situation may be minor, insignificant or irrelevant (if for example the sector has surplus capacity or is not actively engaged in war). In reality, it may just be piracy under a different name, even if they don't themselves believe it to be such.

Even those in the Alpha Legion that believe themselves loyalists in the long run may succumb to this erosion of purpose. Their attacks might be justified as "serving the long term interests of humanity and the Emperor", even though it really just amounts to smash and grab raiding.

With their decentralized structure, it may also be a situation of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Instead of any coherent plan, they might just be individual units acting like any other warband, though in this case they might still be convinced they are serving some higher purpose.


Sadly most of that lore is outdated and ret bombed. Currently AL makes full use of demons to destroy imperial worlds. Has demon princes in it up echelons of command and has done more than any other legion or warband to destabilize the imperial war machine. This is all recorded in the CSM codex 8th edition. There is no loyalist agenda now, Its done. For better or worse AL is bad badie bad guy now.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Right Behind You

Let's face it though, the AL turning good would be met with a big uproar from CSM fans, just like one of the major SM chapters falling to Chaos.
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut




Table wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
If you look at Alpha Legion background in the 2nd edition Chaos Codex, it describes how they started waging their own campaign and setting their own military objectives without real reference to what others were doing.

Their "degeneration" may take a different form than just physical mutation. They may very well still think they are fighting for a goal, but they may be deceiving themselves. They may set military objectives as if they were still fighting some organized campaign, but the real objective may simply be to cause random mayhem. They may have lost their true purpose without knowing it.

For example, they may justify raiding and blowing up Imperial supply depots or capturing interstellar transports as disrupting the Imperium's supply lines, but their true effect on the overall logistical situation may be minor, insignificant or irrelevant (if for example the sector has surplus capacity or is not actively engaged in war). In reality, it may just be piracy under a different name, even if they don't themselves believe it to be such.

Even those in the Alpha Legion that believe themselves loyalists in the long run may succumb to this erosion of purpose. Their attacks might be justified as "serving the long term interests of humanity and the Emperor", even though it really just amounts to smash and grab raiding.

With their decentralized structure, it may also be a situation of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Instead of any coherent plan, they might just be individual units acting like any other warband, though in this case they might still be convinced they are serving some higher purpose.


Sadly most of that lore is outdated and ret bombed. Currently AL makes full use of demons to destroy imperial worlds. Has demon princes in it up echelons of command and has done more than any other legion or warband to destabilize the imperial war machine. This is all recorded in the CSM codex 8th edition. There is no loyalist agenda now, Its done. For better or worse AL is bad badie bad guy now.


Actually the BL novel Sons of the Hydra show it is not outdated or retconned. That novel only came out a few months ago. There are a few in the Alpha Legion that still view themselves as loyalists (the main character in that novel is one of them). They view themselves as either deep cover agents or they view themselves much as Istvaanian Inquisitor might. In other words, they believe they test the Imperium and strengthen it by cutting away the corrupt and the weak. Of course, the main character himself could be criticized as being self-deceiving and delusional. It all depends on POV.

The wider view of the Legion is what I described above. It has splintered into many individual warbands and cells pursuing their own goals, often with no greater purpose beyond the individual desires or preoccupations of their leader.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/19 15:04:19


 
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Iracundus wrote:
Table wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
If you look at Alpha Legion background in the 2nd edition Chaos Codex, it describes how they started waging their own campaign and setting their own military objectives without real reference to what others were doing.

Their "degeneration" may take a different form than just physical mutation. They may very well still think they are fighting for a goal, but they may be deceiving themselves. They may set military objectives as if they were still fighting some organized campaign, but the real objective may simply be to cause random mayhem. They may have lost their true purpose without knowing it.

For example, they may justify raiding and blowing up Imperial supply depots or capturing interstellar transports as disrupting the Imperium's supply lines, but their true effect on the overall logistical situation may be minor, insignificant or irrelevant (if for example the sector has surplus capacity or is not actively engaged in war). In reality, it may just be piracy under a different name, even if they don't themselves believe it to be such.

Even those in the Alpha Legion that believe themselves loyalists in the long run may succumb to this erosion of purpose. Their attacks might be justified as "serving the long term interests of humanity and the Emperor", even though it really just amounts to smash and grab raiding.

With their decentralized structure, it may also be a situation of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Instead of any coherent plan, they might just be individual units acting like any other warband, though in this case they might still be convinced they are serving some higher purpose.


Sadly most of that lore is outdated and ret bombed. Currently AL makes full use of demons to destroy imperial worlds. Has demon princes in it up echelons of command and has done more than any other legion or warband to destabilize the imperial war machine. This is all recorded in the CSM codex 8th edition. There is no loyalist agenda now, Its done. For better or worse AL is bad badie bad guy now.


Actually the BL novel Sons of the Hydra show it is not outdated or retconned. That novel only came out a few months ago. There are a few in the Alpha Legion that still view themselves as loyalists (the main character in that novel is one of them). They view themselves as either deep cover agents or they view themselves much as Istvaanian Inquisitor might. In other words, they believe they test the Imperium and strengthen it by cutting away the corrupt and the weak. Of course, the main character himself could be criticized as being self-deceiving and delusional. It all depends on POV.

The wider view of the Legion is what I described above. It has splintered into many individual warbands and cells pursuing their own goals, often with no greater purpose beyond the individual desires or preoccupations of their leader.


Interesting. I would like to pick up that book. I "THINK" it is common to value codex lore vs BL. So In this instance I would say the AL in the book are a very rare splintercell. You cannot pretend to be chaos. You cannot pretend to summon demons. You cannot pretend to cut the empire in two.
Alpha Legion is led by many demon princes along with chaos lords. You cant be a demon prince and have any form of loyality. I shall read the book and further my thoughts on this subject. But for now, as per the codex, the vast majority of AL are indeed traitors.
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut




Table wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
Table wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
If you look at Alpha Legion background in the 2nd edition Chaos Codex, it describes how they started waging their own campaign and setting their own military objectives without real reference to what others were doing.

Their "degeneration" may take a different form than just physical mutation. They may very well still think they are fighting for a goal, but they may be deceiving themselves. They may set military objectives as if they were still fighting some organized campaign, but the real objective may simply be to cause random mayhem. They may have lost their true purpose without knowing it.

For example, they may justify raiding and blowing up Imperial supply depots or capturing interstellar transports as disrupting the Imperium's supply lines, but their true effect on the overall logistical situation may be minor, insignificant or irrelevant (if for example the sector has surplus capacity or is not actively engaged in war). In reality, it may just be piracy under a different name, even if they don't themselves believe it to be such.

Even those in the Alpha Legion that believe themselves loyalists in the long run may succumb to this erosion of purpose. Their attacks might be justified as "serving the long term interests of humanity and the Emperor", even though it really just amounts to smash and grab raiding.

With their decentralized structure, it may also be a situation of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Instead of any coherent plan, they might just be individual units acting like any other warband, though in this case they might still be convinced they are serving some higher purpose.


Sadly most of that lore is outdated and ret bombed. Currently AL makes full use of demons to destroy imperial worlds. Has demon princes in it up echelons of command and has done more than any other legion or warband to destabilize the imperial war machine. This is all recorded in the CSM codex 8th edition. There is no loyalist agenda now, Its done. For better or worse AL is bad badie bad guy now.


Actually the BL novel Sons of the Hydra show it is not outdated or retconned. That novel only came out a few months ago. There are a few in the Alpha Legion that still view themselves as loyalists (the main character in that novel is one of them). They view themselves as either deep cover agents or they view themselves much as Istvaanian Inquisitor might. In other words, they believe they test the Imperium and strengthen it by cutting away the corrupt and the weak. Of course, the main character himself could be criticized as being self-deceiving and delusional. It all depends on POV.

The wider view of the Legion is what I described above. It has splintered into many individual warbands and cells pursuing their own goals, often with no greater purpose beyond the individual desires or preoccupations of their leader.


Interesting. I would like to pick up that book. I "THINK" it is common to value codex lore vs BL. So In this instance I would say the AL in the book are a very rare splintercell. You cannot pretend to be chaos. You cannot pretend to summon demons. You cannot pretend to cut the empire in two.
Alpha Legion is led by many demon princes along with chaos lords. You cant be a demon prince and have any form of loyality. I shall read the book and further my thoughts on this subject. But for now, as per the codex, the vast majority of AL are indeed traitors.


That particular group was not summoning daemons or possessed or becoming daemon princes. Obviously becoming a daemon prince means being fully Chaos else they would not have reached that status in the first place. Summoning daemons and trafficking with daemons could be debated by those that do it. Like Radical Inquisitors or the original Thousand Sons, they would probably argue that they were in control and not serving the daemons, but they could also be deceived or lying to themselves.

The more interesting view I think is not whether they are physically mutated (which the team in that novel is not) but whether they are lying to themselves. They are not just pretending. They might genuinely believe they are loyalists and look down about the "true" Chaos traitors but they might act otherwise nearly the same. Although not personally doing some of the things that the other Chaos followers do, they certainly do not seem to be above taking advantage of it. The main character, named Occam, seemed to oscillate between Istvaanian views of testing the current Imperium, to viewing the current Imperium as hopelessly corrupt and needing to be torn down entirely in order to be rebuilt into "what the Emperor would have wanted". The thing is he has no real concrete plan of how to reach this ultimate goal except maybe this long shot hope of finding the Alpha Legion's Primarch in order to reunify the Legion in purpose.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/20 00:00:20


 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Physical mutation isn't really an indicator of if you're a Chaos worshiper though. To reference another series of BL novels (this time the Fabius Bile ones), Bile is a pure atheist. He does not worship any of the Chaos gods, nor does he believe them to be anything other than ever hunger warp entities given sentience by folklore.

That said, he still has to keep mutations at bay with a cocktail of "drugs, willpower and the occasional surgery". So you can be in the Eye and still feel the touch of Chaos.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in pt
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Grimtuff wrote:
Physical mutation isn't really an indicator of if you're a Chaos worshiper though. To reference another series of BL novels (this time the Fabius Bile ones), Bile is a pure atheist. He does not worship any of the Chaos gods, nor does he believe them to be anything other than ever hunger warp entities given sentience by folklore.

That said, he still has to keep mutations at bay with a cocktail of "drugs, willpower and the occasional surgery". So you can be in the Eye and still feel the touch of Chaos.


Fabius Bile does not for a moment believe he is still loyal to the Emperor. The character of Occam in the Sons of the Hydra novel still does.

I had earlier referenced how the Alpha Legion's degeneration seems to be of a more subtle nature than obvious physical mutation. It is pretty hard to keep telling yourself you are still a loyal servant of the Emperor if your form visibly mutates, though the Soul Drinkers tried that.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Iracundus wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
Physical mutation isn't really an indicator of if you're a Chaos worshiper though. To reference another series of BL novels (this time the Fabius Bile ones), Bile is a pure atheist. He does not worship any of the Chaos gods, nor does he believe them to be anything other than ever hunger warp entities given sentience by folklore.

That said, he still has to keep mutations at bay with a cocktail of "drugs, willpower and the occasional surgery". So you can be in the Eye and still feel the touch of Chaos.


Fabius Bile does not for a moment believe he is still loyal to the Emperor. The character of Occam in the Sons of the Hydra novel still does.

I had earlier referenced how the Alpha Legion's degeneration seems to be of a more subtle nature than obvious physical mutation. It is pretty hard to keep telling yourself you are still a loyal servant of the Emperor if your form visibly mutates, though the Soul Drinkers tried that.


My point was one can simply be in the Eye and experience mutation. Chaos worship has nothing to do with it, although it probably speeds up the process.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





the alpha legion is basicly deluding themselves. they're basicly the first radical inqusitor whose started off well intentioned but eventually went so far off the deep end they've completely fallen to chaos

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in pt
Longtime Dakkanaut




BrianDavion wrote:
the alpha legion is basicly deluding themselves. they're basicly the first radical inqusitor whose started off well intentioned but eventually went so far off the deep end they've completely fallen to chaos


Those that freely summon daemons or get Marks of Chaos are fallen to Chaos. Some of the Alpha Legion could fit that. Others like Occam might more properly be termed renegades. They don't worship the Chaos gods and don't summon daemons. They might make use of sorcerors wielding warp powers but otherwise they serve themselves. Some might be out to carve out personal empires, while others like Occam might believe themselves still secret loyalists. Some bands might splinter off under different leaders, with different goals.

Ultimately it seems the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, even if it believes it might. I find that a more tragic fate for the Alpha Legion: rather than some shadowy mastermind (or multiple masterminds) pulling strings in the shadows and coordinating some sublime plan with the cults and warbands, it really is just randomness and any claim to a higher purpose is just self-deception and delusion.
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





right behind you

I personally like to believe that some of the larger warbands made it appear as if they split up, usually all being connected by their beliefs, they then get ill defined orders and try and fulfil them, allowing for a fair amount of intrigue into stuff like this, honestly the best part of alpha legion is the mystery and Geedubs should keep it that way.

1650 points approx. of deathwatch
2500 points aprox. of alpha legion and thousand sons
50 power admech
60 power salamanders
70 power thousand sons


 
   
Made in se
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






Iracundus wrote:
Table wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
If you look at Alpha Legion background in the 2nd edition Chaos Codex, it describes how they started waging their own campaign and setting their own military objectives without real reference to what others were doing.

Their "degeneration" may take a different form than just physical mutation. They may very well still think they are fighting for a goal, but they may be deceiving themselves. They may set military objectives as if they were still fighting some organized campaign, but the real objective may simply be to cause random mayhem. They may have lost their true purpose without knowing it.

For example, they may justify raiding and blowing up Imperial supply depots or capturing interstellar transports as disrupting the Imperium's supply lines, but their true effect on the overall logistical situation may be minor, insignificant or irrelevant (if for example the sector has surplus capacity or is not actively engaged in war). In reality, it may just be piracy under a different name, even if they don't themselves believe it to be such.

Even those in the Alpha Legion that believe themselves loyalists in the long run may succumb to this erosion of purpose. Their attacks might be justified as "serving the long term interests of humanity and the Emperor", even though it really just amounts to smash and grab raiding.

With their decentralized structure, it may also be a situation of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Instead of any coherent plan, they might just be individual units acting like any other warband, though in this case they might still be convinced they are serving some higher purpose.


Sadly most of that lore is outdated and ret bombed. Currently AL makes full use of demons to destroy imperial worlds. Has demon princes in it up echelons of command and has done more than any other legion or warband to destabilize the imperial war machine. This is all recorded in the CSM codex 8th edition. There is no loyalist agenda now, Its done. For better or worse AL is bad badie bad guy now.


Actually the BL novel Sons of the Hydra show it is not outdated or retconned. That novel only came out a few months ago. There are a few in the Alpha Legion that still view themselves as loyalists (the main character in that novel is one of them). They view themselves as either deep cover agents or they view themselves much as Istvaanian Inquisitor might. In other words, they believe they test the Imperium and strengthen it by cutting away the corrupt and the weak. Of course, the main character himself could be criticized as being self-deceiving and delusional. It all depends on POV.

The wider view of the Legion is what I described above. It has splintered into many individual warbands and cells pursuing their own goals, often with no greater purpose beyond the individual desires or preoccupations of their leader.

Honestly I wish we could drop the whole AL being loyalists debate. If any AL remained loyalist then the warp would have corrupted them over the last 10.000years, either willingly or not. Any that stayed loyal would have formed a new chapter with their history re-written, as is (most likely) the case with the blood ravens and the Mantis warriors. The BL books are filled with famous stories of traitor legionaries that remain loyalists. Most notable of these is probably Garro.

I see two possibilities. Either you go to the warp for 10.000 years (the longest living non dreadnoughted marine is 1200 years by comparison) in which case you’re most certainly not a loyalist anymore, your mind litteraly warped to the will of higher powers from warp exposure (unwilling or not), or you remain a loyalist in case you are 1: Dead or 2: Reformed. That being said there are powers in the warp that wants to see other warp enteties destroyed. There are deamons whos sole reason for exsisting is to prey on other deamons or to see the four powers overthrown. It’d Be intresting to see a chaos renegade group devoted the extinction of their kinsmen.

Also... Spoilers for sons of the hydra:
Spoiler:
I have not read the book but from a quick search it seems they more or less destroy 3 loyalists successor chapters and murder a great many of the Imperiums civilians. They also steal a greater deamons from the grey knights, letting it lose to cause more harm for the Imperium in the long run. They don’t appear to be genetic alpha legionaries either which may or may not be a lie. This group appears 100% deluded traitor to me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 11:01:05


His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary. 
   
Made in pt
Longtime Dakkanaut




As has been repeated many times already, some of the Alpha Legion view themselves as loyalists in deep cover playing the long game, and they clearly believe that loyalty does not mean publicly declaring it. Whether or not others in-universe or out of universe agree with them, that is how at least some seem to view themselves. They may be self-deceiving. It depends on whether people view the idea of the Isvaanian philosophy as being legitimate or not. At its heart that philosophy believes that true strength only arises in adversity and if natural adversity is insufficient, then it must be created. An Istvaanian Inquisitor views the havoc he or she causes as tempering the Imperium, burning away the weak while letting the strong demonstrate their talent and strength.

I have read Sons of the Hydra and some of the above "spoilers" are inaccurate or at best only partially true. Occam was part of a larger army led by an Alpha Legion warlord that seemed to be on a personal vendetta against all of Guilliman's successor Space Marines, blaming them for the supposed killing of Alpharius. That warlord made no claim to being a secret loyalist. Occam went along with him because his justification was that using the weapons of the enemy or manipulating traitors did not make one a traitor, and that the current Imperium was a travesty of the Imperium that the Emperor wanted. Occam took the stance of wanting to burn down the Imperium in order to rebuild it, and also at times of thinking they were testing the Imperium. If Occam won, then in his mind, clearly the Imperials were too weak to have been true servants of the Emperor. He also took the stance of that loyalty was easy if you walked in the open with your true allegiance for all to see and to praise, but that true loyalty and faith was demonstrated when there was no public praise, when one was condemned or shamed even, and when no one but the Emperor witnessed one's actions.

The splits within the Alpha Legion mirror the fragmentation of the other Legions. Those that still view themselves as loyalists definitely seem to be a minority. Similarly, Zso Sahaal of the Night Lords seemed to be in a minority with his belief still in Konrad Curze's teachings of "Fear through focus". The rest of the Night Lords had clearly fallen into reveling in their power and were causing terror and destruction for its own sake, and viewed Sahaal as something of an anachronism. I would imagine Occam and others of similar viewpoints would be seen the same way in the Alpha Legion.



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/22 11:34:25


 
   
Made in se
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






I apologize for the facts being wrong in my spoiler part above. It was second hand information. I should have researched it better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 14:00:30


His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary. 
   
Made in es
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

Aside: Mutation is caused by spiritual corruption, which fab bile surely does suffer.
   
Made in de
Spawn of Chaos




They are not loyal to the Imperuim, mankind or Emperor.
But are loyal to the Emperors greatest wish:"destroy Chaos."
And to do so they have to wipe out humanity.
So my little warband is loyal to this dream.
But other scources say that some other warbands just want the endless war, so they can perfect their skills and living for what their were made.

12000p
 
   
 
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