Switch Theme:

Lash Whip and Boneswords on Tyrant Guard  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Can I unit of Tyrant guard who have been killed in melee continue to shieldwall for a nearby Hive Tyrant? They have no wounds left and are technically "dead" but are also still on the table.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Ariexv wrote:
Can I unit of Tyrant guard who have been killed in melee continue to shieldwall for a nearby Hive Tyrant? They have no wounds left and are technically "dead" but are also still on the table.
No, it has been slain so cannot be selected for Shieldwall.

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294
+++++There are currently ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN (115) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities
Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users.
Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Ariexv wrote:
Can I unit of Tyrant guard who have been killed in melee continue to shieldwall for a nearby Hive Tyrant? They have no wounds left and are technically "dead" but are also still on the table.
No, it has been slain so cannot be selected for Shieldwall.


I agree that’s the intent of the rule but does the RAW support that?

The Shieldwall check is just that the unit is within x” of the Tyrant, and the Lashwhip rule tells you to leave the unit on the ya le until it’s their turn to be chosen. I agree you can’t choose the unit, logically, but I’m surprised you’re not arguing the opposite - strictly RAW there’s nothing stopping you choosing a Tyrant Guard unit that is physically present, albeit pre-dead. And then you can’t allocate the MW as no one has any Wounds left and ‘the game breaks’ ZOMG etc.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 JohnnyHell wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Ariexv wrote:
Can I unit of Tyrant guard who have been killed in melee continue to shieldwall for a nearby Hive Tyrant? They have no wounds left and are technically "dead" but are also still on the table.
No, it has been slain so cannot be selected for Shieldwall.


I agree that’s the intent of the rule but does the RAW support that?

The Shieldwall check is just that the unit is within x” of the Tyrant, and the Lashwhip rule tells you to leave the unit on the ya le until it’s their turn to be chosen. I agree you can’t choose the unit, logically, but I’m surprised you’re not arguing the opposite - strictly RAW there’s nothing stopping you choosing a Tyrant Guard unit that is physically present, albeit pre-dead. And then you can’t allocate the MW as no one has any Wounds left and ‘the game breaks’ ZOMG etc.
You make a fair point. It's 7:50 am and I've not slept.

You're right, a Tyrant Guard with Lash Whip can absorb an infinite amount of damage up until the point it gets to fight.

Thank you for the example I can use to show you're an "unreasonable" person when it comes to RaW too.

The game doesn't break, there is no requirement for a model to have any wounds left to be allocated a wound, it's just normally they aren't on the battlefield to do so. And because you'd be reduced to -1 wound, not 0 wound, it wouldn't cause the model to be removed (since Lash Whip doesn't stop it being removed again if it gets reduced to 0 wounds again).

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/10 07:13:22


Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294
+++++There are currently ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN (115) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities
Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users.
Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

Nice try but nope, I wouldn’t play it that way (and as a Tyranid player I’d stand to benefit). I was just confused that the Earth was spinning off it’s axis for a moment!

Understanding the letter of a rule is a function of being able to make concessions so the game works. In a nutshell, unless I understand why you make the calls you do in your ever-growing sig (I swear it’s giving me RSI) how can I possibly make reasonable adjustments?

On that, if a model is reduced to zero Wounds it is slain and removed - no provision exists for taking ‘infinite damage’. What happens when a model already on zero but still on the table for some special reason takes a MW? Game breaks? No rules for processing a -1W model? It’s ‘slain again’ and removed despite Lashwhips saying ‘leave it’? This is another reason why I don’t believe you can select a dead TG for Shieldwall - the rules have no way to process the amount of conflicts it generates. Just leave them for the purpose the Lashwhip rule states - to make an attack later before removing them - and treat the model as a reminder of when that will occur in the Fight Phase sequence, rather than the unit.


 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






But as you correctly stated, it doesn't say to use it as a placeholder. The model is still physically there and thus can be selected for Shieldwall. You can still allocate it the mortal wound, and it gets reduced to -1 Wound, which doesn't trigger the removal rule. Page 175 makes it clear that only "Strength, Toughness and Leadership characteristics of a model can never be modified below 1", all other statistics can.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/10 07:32:38


Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294
+++++There are currently ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN (115) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities
Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users.
Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

 BaconCatBug wrote:
But as you correctly stated, it doesn't say to use it as a placeholder. The model is still physically there and thus can be selected for Shieldwall. You can still allocate it the mortal wound, and it gets reduced to -1 Wound, which doesn't trigger the removal rule. Page 175 makes it clear that only "Strength, Toughness and Leadership characteristics of a model can never be modified below 1", all other statistics can.


Add it to the sig! I will accept my royalties in Haribo.

Edit: YES! I made it beyond a passive-aggressive dig!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/10 07:36:05


 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: