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Can I unit of Tyrant guard who have been killed in melee continue to shieldwall for a nearby Hive Tyrant? They have no wounds left and are technically "dead" but are also still on the table.

Ariexv wrote:
Can I unit of Tyrant guard who have been killed in melee continue to shieldwall for a nearby Hive Tyrant? They have no wounds left and are technically "dead" but are also still on the table.

No, it has been slain so cannot be selected for Shieldwall.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Ariexv wrote:
Can I unit of Tyrant guard who have been killed in melee continue to shieldwall for a nearby Hive Tyrant? They have no wounds left and are technically "dead" but are also still on the table.

No, it has been slain so cannot be selected for Shieldwall.

I agree that’s the intent of the rule but does the RAW support that?

The Shieldwall check is just that the unit is within x” of the Tyrant, and the Lashwhip rule tells you to leave the unit on the ya le until it’s their turn to be chosen. I agree you can’t choose the unit, logically, but I’m surprised you’re not arguing the opposite - strictly RAW there’s nothing stopping you choosing a Tyrant Guard unit that is physically present, albeit pre-dead. And then you can’t allocate the MW as no one has any Wounds left and ‘the game breaks’ ZOMG etc.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Ariexv wrote:
Can I unit of Tyrant guard who have been killed in melee continue to shieldwall for a nearby Hive Tyrant? They have no wounds left and are technically "dead" but are also still on the table.

No, it has been slain so cannot be selected for Shieldwall.

I agree that’s the intent of the rule but does the RAW support that?

The Shieldwall check is just that the unit is within x” of the Tyrant, and the Lashwhip rule tells you to leave the unit on the ya le until it’s their turn to be chosen. I agree you can’t choose the unit, logically, but I’m surprised you’re not arguing the opposite - strictly RAW there’s nothing stopping you choosing a Tyrant Guard unit that is physically present, albeit pre-dead. And then you can’t allocate the MW as no one has any Wounds left and ‘the game breaks’ ZOMG etc.

You make a fair point. It's 7:50 am and I've not slept.

You're right, a Tyrant Guard with Lash Whip can absorb an infinite amount of damage up until the point it gets to fight.

Thank you for the example I can use to show you're an "unreasonable" person when it comes to RaW too.

The game doesn't break, there is no requirement for a model to have any wounds left to be allocated a wound, it's just normally they aren't on the battlefield to do so. And because you'd be reduced to -1 wound, not 0 wound, it wouldn't cause the model to be removed (since Lash Whip doesn't stop it being removed again if it gets reduced to 0 wounds again).

Nice try but nope, I wouldn’t play it that way (and as a Tyranid player I’d stand to benefit). I was just confused that the Earth was spinning off it’s axis for a moment!

Understanding the letter of a rule is a function of being able to make concessions so the game works. In a nutshell, unless I understand why you make the calls you do in your ever-growing sig (I swear it’s giving me RSI) how can I possibly make reasonable adjustments?

On that, if a model is reduced to zero Wounds it is slain and removed - no provision exists for taking ‘infinite damage’. What happens when a model already on zero but still on the table for some special reason takes a MW? Game breaks? No rules for processing a -1W model? It’s ‘slain again’ and removed despite Lashwhips saying ‘leave it’? This is another reason why I don’t believe you can select a dead TG for Shieldwall - the rules have no way to process the amount of conflicts it generates. Just leave them for the purpose the Lashwhip rule states - to make an attack later before removing them - and treat the model as a reminder of when that will occur in the Fight Phase sequence, rather than the unit.

But as you correctly stated, it doesn't say to use it as a placeholder. The model is still physically there and thus can be selected for Shieldwall. You can still allocate it the mortal wound, and it gets reduced to -1 Wound, which doesn't trigger the removal rule. Page 175 makes it clear that only "Strength, Toughness and Leadership characteristics of a model can never be modified below 1", all other statistics can.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
But as you correctly stated, it doesn't say to use it as a placeholder. The model is still physically there and thus can be selected for Shieldwall. You can still allocate it the mortal wound, and it gets reduced to -1 Wound, which doesn't trigger the removal rule. Page 175 makes it clear that only "Strength, Toughness and Leadership characteristics of a model can never be modified below 1", all other statistics can.

Add it to the sig! I will accept my royalties in Haribo.

Edit: YES! I made it beyond a passive-aggressive dig!