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How do?

So this is mostly sponsored by sheer froth over the Warhammerfest previews. I for one am absolutely blown away.

Titans and Gangers and Sigmar, oh my!

And it’s got me thinking...whilst I’m not a believer in second Golden Ages (because much of any Golden Age is rooted in genuine, non-hipster ironic, nostalgia), but blimey. GW are knocking it out of the park just recently.

We’re seeing a more or less 180 about face in pretty much every area. Community engagement, hobby input (painting videos and podcasts and that), previews, the quality and quantity of releases, and of course listening to feedback.

This is the best they’ve been in a long, long time. And this is coming from someone who’s never really had beef with them. Yet even I can recognise this is like a favourite band kicking the drugs, and getting back to honest rock’n’roll. But not the Chilli Peppers. Drugs are bad, but Chilli Peppers off the drugs are even worse.

We’ve got Specialist games back, and we’re seeing far more than just lip service ala the days of Fanatic!, where the spirit and flesh were willing, but the budget was a pair of speedos three sizes too small.

They’ve at least tried to tidy up 40k. I know sentiment is far from universal, but 8t Ed is at least playable for pretty much everyone. AoS continues great guns, churning it out and developing that brave new world. Adeptus Titanicus is right around the corner (August), Necromunda and Bloodbowl are back with a bang, and continuing support.

Popping the Rose Tinteds off for a moment, I’d genuinely say we’ve never had it so good. They’re not just going back to how we liked them, but are producing stuff we’ve always hankered over. Properly distinct gangs for Necromunda. Sisters of Battle. Imperial Knights. Rogue Trader. It’s frankly staggering when you consider how they’ve upped their output, without sacrificing the quality we’re used to (not to say its good, HateMob, just that it’s not objectively worse).

My only concern is how long they can keep this up. I know the bar was considered fairly low to start with, but they’ve really raised it. They’re at risk of spoiling us so completely, any slowdown could prove frustrating.

But what are your thoughts?

I think Renaissance is a better term, a return to the Classical philosophies but with new technologies and understanding (and puffy sleeves...)

I think the big challenge ahead of them is the narrative that they're setting up for 40K, things are working out nicely for AoS but there they are still exploring a new world and adding in the new factions. Once the last few codexes are complete, if not before then, and we start seeing the campaign/narrative books we'll see if they're actually able to keep juggling all these factions and what this new age of GW is going to be like.

Seems more like set the product cannon to spray and see what sticks to me

As whilst the RT models look sweet is another skirmishy game needed on top of Necro and regular Kill Team (and Shadespire and BB at a push)

Not grumping at GW for trying but my grumblekin sense as a tingling as it feels not dissimilar to the FFG many many lines strategy

I suspect Titans will be too pricey for me but if theres some neat 10mm scenery I might get some for Dropzone

Mostly.
AoS and their fantasy setting is currently blooming. While they brought back some classics (Blood Bowl), they were able to create original stuff we had never seen before. Armies that are pretty unique (like the Deepkin), or new games that depart from what they usually do (Shadespire).
On the 40K front, they're still mostly banking on Nostalgia. Necromunda, Titanicus, possibly Gorkamorka in the future, all that stuff has been done before. As for the minis, Custodes and Primaris are still very much within their comfort zone.

When they'll take risks and release something really new for 40K, I think it will be a full rebirth.

I'd say yes it is a new golden age (I won't say silver as it might imply it was cheaper than it is)

lots of lovely old stuff,
a decent amount of lovely new stuff,
an actual balanced ruleset in shadespire (judging from what people I know are saying about it who haven't touched a GW game for years
fun and playable versions of 40K and Fantasy (well AoS now)even if they don't meet the balanced tournament game criteria i'd say they've closer than they've been for a long time
community involvement
actually listening to the community (Plastic SoB, TItanicus in plastic not the planned resin)
Discounts on bulk purchases with the start collecting boxes

and above all the upper management actually seems to have realised we play/collect/paint/horde/ramble on social media because this is (or should be) fun

It's hard to say. They are certainly producing many beautiful miniatures that are just too pricey to buy. The last GW box I purchased was the Slayer team for Shadespire, and only because I needed them for a game that has yet to materialize. As much as I love many of the recent minis, I don't love them $50-for-5-schmoes much. The next purchase I'll make will be either SoB or Battlefleet Gothic redux, depending which comes first. And there's always the chance they could price me out of those.

So, is it really a Silver Age if it's remembered as the "it would have been nice to participate" period? They may be hitting it out of the parks in most metrics, but they're still striking out in the sticker shock zone.

Thread title needs changing to something like... GW fanboy needs a praise thread for GW.

Prices are still silly (but yeah, SC sets are better compared to their individual silly prices)
Sculpting is getting better, except the figures are getting more and more difficult to stick in a case and transport anywhere for an actual game. And for the love of God, stop with the hovering on tendrils of plastic thing.
40K 8th seems less cumbersome at first glance, but the reality is, with all those special rules per unit and 'combos' it's like MtG.
AoS is so 'good' it needs a new edition already. Keeping to GW's old '2 year cycle' system of changes to rules to force book purchases.
Necromunda is coming out piecemeal with errors in each book.

Nah... GW haven't changed much. It's not a silver age. More a platinum age on what they're suckering people for.
There's so many better games out there. Just a shame that GW is the only one that can afford to do figures so well in HIP. In the eyes of the cult of GW, they can do no wrong.

I entered expecting a Gimgamgoo/Peregrine rant.

I wasn't dissapointed.

I would say gold age, considering the cost of their models..

edit: my joke was ninja'ed

 Galas wrote:
I entered expecting a Gimgamgoo/Peregrine rant.

I wasn't dissapointed.

Peregrine will be along later after he's stopped complaining about all the new releases at Warhammerfest

 Rolsheen wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I entered expecting a Gimgamgoo/Peregrine rant.

I wasn't dissapointed.

Peregrine will be along later after he's stopped complaining about all the new releases at Warhammerfest

Well it’s a long trip. He’s got to fill up his Rolls Royce with single malt scotch and make it to his private airfield to take his private jet home, before he can log in here to say we’re a bunch of peasants with no money before launching into his rant.

Takes time.

Nah.

I just think they're throwing a lot at the wall, based on community feedback, and seeing what's actually going to stick. Which isn't a bad thing at all, in fact it's pretty bright.

I'm just hoping that a lot of this stuff actually sticks. I've got no real passion for Titanicus, or Epic, or whatever. Nor do I for Blood Bowl or Gothic. Most of these things don't appeal to me, but I take them as a good sign if they're popping up and getting support because it means good things for the future.

I mean, hell- it seems like for a long time GW's entire business plan involved a lot of one-sided communication. This is a hell of an improvement.

Honestly, while I'm still personally somewhat bitter about the games that they turned 40K and WHFB into, and they've well and truly priced themselves out of my wallet, they certainly do seem to have largely turned around public sentiment and regained a lot of lost popularity for both.

And while I'm not likely to buy many of them, their model releases over the last little while have been fairly consistently knocking it out of the park.

And yeah, the return of making some attempt to connect with their customer base is nice.


I think part of the problem for a lot of people is going to be the fairly massive change of direction. While model quality is certainly improving, it's come with a gradual shift away from multi-pose models towards more detailed but less customisable sculpts. Good for gamers, less so for modelers.

Likewise on the rules... Throwing out WHFB and chopping the 40K rules down was certainly not popular with gamers who liked the existing systems, but seems to have been good for bringing new blood into the hobby.

So it's a mixed bag, really, and you're unlikely to get any sort of consensus about whether or not they're winning overall because of that.


Regardless of personal opinions, it seems fairly obvious that as a company they're in a better place now than they were three or four years ago, though.

 Rolsheen wrote:
Peregrine will be along later after he's stopped complaining about all the new releases at Warhammerfest

Never mind the fact that I like the new titans (and just hope they follow it up with a proper Epic release ASAP), like the SoB preview just fine (with the disclaimer that it's not a model yet), and the only thing I've been really critical of is FW's announcement that FoC and its badly needed rules updates are being dumped in favor of more gold marine trash. But don't let the truth get in the way of a good rant.

As for the OP, there are good steps but also a lot of bad. 8th edition is still a dumpster fire of design, and it remains to be seen how much long-term support the various secondary games get. If they're properly supported then yeah, it's a new and improved era of GW having diverse product lines instead of just 40k. And perhaps those secondary games are good enough to make up for the fact that 8th edition sucks with no hope of improvement in sight. On the other hand, if it becomes another Dreadfleet debacle, where GW dumps an initial starter set and then abandons the game then it's much less impressive.

Guys, let's keep it polite...

DakkaDakka is a forum for talking about fun games of toy soldiers.

Yea, GW is at it's best it's ever been.
When you've been part of the hobby for decades it can be hard for some not to become jaded or simply desencitized, where past experiences block for being able to clearly compared past and present performance.

Personally I think the main problem now is too many good opportunities and not enough time to actually play and participate in them, which can sort of lead to a paradox of choice.
The release schedule is so fast, that before I can buy and paint a new army/gang/team/whatever, something new and maybe cooler have come out.

Yes.... and no.....

There's a LOT of good stuff coming out. There's a lot of it I want, but not at these prices.

It's great that AoS has got two new armies (I'm old enough to count flying dwarves as new) but the cost of a new army means I've glanced. VERY nice. Irrelevant to *me*. Forgebane is a "want" too, as is Necromunda.

The strategy SEEMS to be working - my local GW is bustling - but - I'm a hanger on.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:


I’ve got no real passion for Titanicus, or Epic, or whatever. Nor do I for Blood Bowl or Gothic.

We’ve found a Heretic! May we burn him.

:p

Dreadfleet was designed as a one-drop game though. They even limited the initial production run. It was a game born of a different line of thinking which was to produce self-contained miniature games for the market without GW having to invest further support in the line to make it work.

Titanicus is a totally different approach and likely will copy Bloodbowl in being supported long term. It's main weakness is that it will only feature Imperial Titans so it will have an eventual end to the number it can produce; however if it gains enough traction then they can easily do Titanicus 40K and keep all the old titans (as titans basically don't change) and add in Eldar, Tyranid, Ork etc... And if it doen't do well enough then it can survive on its own as a fringe game.

Imperial Titans initially....confirmed during the seminar

Look back through the artwork for Epic; see all those pictures of titans that look nothing like any of the miniatures? There's scope for all of those, and new designs.

Even just thinking of the Warlord, there's scope to release the Nightgaunt, Eclipse, Deathbringer and various other units that used to just be designations for weapon hardpoint patterns as new miniatures (or at least as conversion sets for the plastic Warlord. In fact, some of those old configurations have been retconned in the HH books as different classes now.

I honestly find myself looking at GW products less and less, glad I already have my 40k armies, because the cost of buying a DECENT 2,000 points list is insanity. The balance between the newer Codexes and a good chunk of the early ones is abysmal, and the scattering of rules throughout the various documents annoys me. To play my Tallarn/Blood Angels army I need to have;

-the rulebook
-rulebook FAQ
-Astra Copywritum Codex
-Guard FAQ
-Blood Angels Codex
-Blood Angels Codex
-Chapter Approved: 2017
-Chapter Approved FAQ
-The Big FAQ
-Death Guard FAQ (since it shows you can use Strategems to get relics from the army you souped in)

Sure, I can keep the FAQs saved on my phone, but what happens if I break my phone? How do I prove that I can take BA relics if my Warlord is Guard? And sure, I would only 7 books/FAQs if I just played pure Guard instead of the 10 I would need to play my mixed army, but at this point it is just insane.

Two of my friends who live in a different state were video chatting with me on where to go since they bought two start collecting boxes, the rulebook, and their Codexes. When I told them all the FAQs they will need to download, on top of buying Chapter Approved, to play at their local store... They were shocked. It annoyed them how a good chunk of the rules they just just finished reading, and wrapping their heads around, were wrong now. After expanding their armies a bit, they noticed a huge difference in power between one guys 1,000 point Guard army and the others 1,000 point Ad Mech army. It really feels like we already need a new rulebook at this point, and a huge rebalancing of the armies points and their special rules.

Still don't regret selling/trading my Fantasy armies because Age of Sigmar doesn't do it for me. I don't begrudge those that enjoy it, because that is just petty.

Even with all the communication and new products from GW, a few of us at the local store have started branching out to other games like Infinity, and I have bought a new Warmachine army. 40k just isn't doing it for us anymore, and those that have weaker armies or assault based armies are holding off buying or playing much until the next Chapter Approved. Sorry for the rant, but I really don't see it as a golden or silver age for GW, it just seems like an age where they shotgun blast out products and rules... And hope that some of them stick, while telling us how modern and new they are on social media.

Frankly, yes. Personally speaking i've built, painted, spent and played more games and had more fun in the past two years or so than the last 15 (Lord of the Rings sbg not withstanding). So yes, long may it continue.

Lots and lots of neat models or side-games but the massive failure is still in the rules department. Give me all the models you want, but without a solid rules system (which 8th is not) then you might as well be another miniature kickstarter.

I enjoy modeling and painting but I also want a deeper strategy other than 40k and AoS offer with their current editions.

The biggest concern I always have over GW stuff, is the quick turn round on rules systems and this is the thing they don't appear to have changed.
For the GW staff at GW HQ, they probably play a game every few days (or more) so when new rules come out in 2 years, the old rules seem over used and dated. For a lot of the real world, it takes an age to paint an army, we start to have a game a month, and before you've even had a dozen games, there's a new set of rules out (and codices, supplements, FAQs etc).

When GW finally play test a game and proof read a rulebook properly, then allow it to have at least 5 years without changing it, then we'll be in at least a bronze age.

As a teacher that ran a 40k club at school for a couple of decades, it was always worrying when a new player turned up and was asking what rulebook or codices to buy and you knew that although a new rulebook hadn't been announced, it was over a year since the last one. What do you recommend to that kid? Suggest buying one knowing it would be worthless in 6 months? Tell someone keen to start playing not to bother getting any rules for 6 months just in case a new edition comes out? This is what GW need to fix. By the announcement of AoS2 (granted it's been 3 years, but there was a major change a year in), and the apparent state of 40k, it shows this quick turnaround of book selling hasn't changed yet.

I may have a reputation of being a GW h8r, but I'm not. I want them to get back to their glory days. I just can't see it happening with it being tied to shareholders and Profit is the Emperor of Mankind.

There's problems at the moment. I won't deny that. But mother of god is this current GW the best I've seen it.

I've enjoyed these last two years more than the rest of what I've experienced (slightly over ten years), and I've been buying more and more from them as a result.

I'm genuinely interested in starting my old Skaven army again, looking at Shadespire, Necromunda and Titanicus, and the Primaris made me prioritize starting a new Primaris only army before expanding my Tau. The community they're building is impressive, and their use of the more simplified power points system and the free AoS rules are things I personally really like.

Yeah, there's problems. The models are getting expensive, but on the flip side, they're arguably better quality (although I do have an issue with the apparent move away from multi-part character kits), and getting more expensive is only natural with inflation. The meta isn't perfectly balanced, but we've seen them react faster to problems than really any time before - there's still problems, but they do seem to be working on them.

If they continue as they are, keep working on the rules to make them more balanced, and maybe move towards more customisable hero kits, I'll be very happy for years to come.

this was posted on todays warhammerfest live blog, visitors were asked what was their first citadel mini

now I can't read the stickers which presumably show a bit more detail, but just the years where they've been places tell a story, growth up to 2000 (and people sticking with the hobby/coming back), then a decade of dark times where it seems more like a holding action, followed by a new takeoff from 2012 onwards

Those dates of high activity tend to correlate with new editions being released.

For all aspects exept 40k and general overpricing maybe.

GW is actually making games again instead of being a fancy mini company. So long as they keep it up I can see people thinking of it as a new age for the company