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Their 'fire storm' rule says they shoot twice if they remained stationary during their turn.

This seems really ambiguous. Is it their last player turn or their preceding movement phase? Does it mean they can't shoot twice on their first turn even if they stay still as they haven't had a prior turn? Intuitively that seems wrong. If anyone can help it'd be great!

 DoomMouse wrote:
Their 'fire storm' rule says they shoot twice if they remained stationary during their turn.

This seems really ambiguous. Is it their last player turn or their preceding movement phase? Does it mean they can't shoot twice on their first turn even if they stay still as they haven't had a prior turn? Intuitively that seems wrong. If anyone can help it'd be great!

"can fire twice if they remained stationary during their turn." The rule makes no reference to previous turns or phases. So if you do not move in your turn you get to shoot twice in that turn, as well as twice in Overwatch in the following player's turn. A question might arise for Overwatch if they are charged in the first turn. Still, they haven't moved so I figure they fire twice then as well. Not very likely with the Beta rules now, but there it is.

Seconding the above position. "Their" turn means the controlling players current turn. If the unit has not moved from the beginning of the controlling players turn, they may fire twice.

Awesome, thanks guys. It would be interesting to know if they can charge after shooting twice though. I feel like the rule could have been phrased more helpfully!

 DoomMouse wrote:
Awesome, thanks guys. It would be interesting to know if they can charge after shooting twice though. I feel like the rule could have been phrased more helpfully!

What rule prevents you from charging?
They had remained stationary when you shot and there is nothing about after they shoot so they are then free to move(charge).

The only grey area is if they are charged in the first turn before they had a turn themselves, and then I would argue they can shoot twice because they have not moved yet.

Whats wrong with the shooting twice rule ? When it comes to selecting targets in the shooting phase you select two units or you fire twice at the same unit.

I understand this but how about the agressors shooting after they used the space wolf strategem allowing them to outflank. Can they still shoot twice?

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
I understand this but how about the agressors shooting after they used the space wolf strategem allowing them to outflank. Can they still shoot twice?

If they do that they didn't remain stationary, they arrived as reinforcements, thus count as moving for all rules purposes.

Related question regarding the Tyrannofex. It has a similar ability that states it can fire its weapons twice if it stays still. So is this treated as double shots vs the same target, which must be declared at the same time, or is it two separate salvos with each ‘round of shooting’ able to target different units (like a ‘fight twice’ but in the Shooting Phase)? I assumed the latter and my opponent assumed the former. Bit if a heated moment but I went with the less advantageous interpretation and just rolled double shots vs the same Wraithlord. What say you folks?

The way i understand/ interpret it is that unless it words it clearly you have to shoot at the same target, or like the kastellens where fire twice means heavy 3 becomes heavy 6 for its protocol, you can shoot at different units with the second round of shots.

In conjunction, how would people here rule when using the Raven Guard Stratagem "Strike from the Shadows"?

Would Aggressors get to shoot twice the turn that Stratagem is used?

Edit (Stratagem wording): Strike from the Shadows (1 CP) - "Use this Stratagem when you can set up a RAVEN GUARD INFANTRY unit during deployment. You can set up the unit in the shadows instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the beginning of the first battle round but before the first turn begins, the unit emerges from their hiding place - set them up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models."

 Lord Clinto wrote:
In conjunction, how would people here rule when using the Raven Guard Stratagem "Strike from the Shadows"?

Would Aggressors get to shoot twice the turn that Stratagem is used?

Yes, because Strike From The Shadows deploys the unit before the first turn begins, thus they aren't reinforcements, thus they don't count as having movied, thus if you don't move them in your first turn, they get to fire twice.

That being said, there is a point of contention (that applies to some Dark Angel stuff too if I remember correctly) that if you're going second, you don't count as having not moved in your previous turn/phase because it hasn't happened, so it can be argued if a squad of Aggressors are charged Turn 1, with the Aggressor player going second, they only get to fire once.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Lord Clinto wrote:
In conjunction, how would people here rule when using the Raven Guard Stratagem "Strike from the Shadows"?

Would Aggressors get to shoot twice the turn that Stratagem is used?

Yes, because Strike From The Shadows deploys the unit before the first turn begins, thus they aren't reinforcements, thus they don't count as having movied, thus if you don't move them in your first turn, they get to fire twice.

That being said, there is a point of contention (that applies to some Dark Angel stuff too if I remember correctly) that if you're going second, you don't count as having not moved in your previous turn/phase because it hasn't happened, so it can be argued if a squad of Aggressors are charged Turn 1, with the Aggressor player going second, they only get to fire once.

Is that really a thing? Go second but don't count as stationary?

 Lord Clinto wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Lord Clinto wrote:
In conjunction, how would people here rule when using the Raven Guard Stratagem "Strike from the Shadows"?

Would Aggressors get to shoot twice the turn that Stratagem is used?

Yes, because Strike From The Shadows deploys the unit before the first turn begins, thus they aren't reinforcements, thus they don't count as having movied, thus if you don't move them in your first turn, they get to fire twice.

That being said, there is a point of contention (that applies to some Dark Angel stuff too if I remember correctly) that if you're going second, you don't count as having not moved in your previous turn/phase because it hasn't happened, so it can be argued if a squad of Aggressors are charged Turn 1, with the Aggressor player going second, they only get to fire once.

Is that really a thing? Go second but don't count as stationary?

Read BCB's signature, he takes RAW very literally.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Is that really a thing? Go second but don't count as stationary?

It is a thing some people bring up. If you've not had a turn yet, how could you have remained stationary in your previous turn?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Is that really a thing? Go second but don't count as stationary?

It is a thing some people bring up. If you've not had a turn yet, how could you have remained stationary in your previous turn?

I asked a similiar question about DA re-rolling 1s on overwatch when i had first turn. I deepstriked and charged, my opponent wanted to re-roll 1s on overwatch. I said he cant, he didnt have a turn yet. But the general consensus here was that he gets to re-roll 1s, even if he hasnt had a movement phase yet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JohnnyHell wrote:Related question regarding the Tyrannofex. It has a similar ability that states it can fire its weapons twice if it stays still. So is this treated as double shots vs the same target, which must be declared at the same time, or is it two separate salvos with each ‘round of shooting’ able to target different units (like a ‘fight twice’ but in the Shooting Phase)? I assumed the latter and my opponent assumed the former. Bit if a heated moment but I went with the less advantageous interpretation and just rolled double shots vs the same Wraithlord. What say you folks?

Brass eye wrote:The way i understand/ interpret it is that unless it words it clearly you have to shoot at the same target, or like the kastellens where fire twice means heavy 3 becomes heavy 6 for its protocol, you can shoot at different units with the second round of shots.

From the rulebook update 1.2.

Q: If a unit has an ability that allows it to ‘shoot twice’ (e.g.
Maugan Ra’s Whirlwind of Death ability, or an Aggressor
Squad’s Fire Storm ability), do I need to shoot the same target
each time or can I choose different targets? Do I need to resolve
these two shooting attacks back to back?
A: Unless otherwise stated, you can shoot different targets
each time it shoots. The attacks are resolved back to
back – resolve the first shooting attack completely before
resolving the second

I'm assuming if shooting Overwatch twice, both sets of shots have to be at the charging unit though

Cheers p5freak - was staring me in the face all along!

 Lord Clinto wrote:
I'm assuming if shooting Overwatch twice, both sets of shots have to be at the charging unit though

Of course, you cant shoot anything else in the enemys charge phase.

thread semi-necro (hey i searched instead of asking again!)

to be clear am i correct in thinking:
my turn:
move some flamer agrgessors fire once
my opponents turn:
he charges them, they can only overwatch once.

Yes, they only fire once.

Models in this unit can fire twice if they remained stationary during their turn (including when firing Overwatch).