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Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





The title says it all really. Who would have guessed that result?
EDIT. Here are the results.
[Thumb - IMG_20180514_000520.jpg]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/13 15:17:28


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Guessed the result? No. But it's pretty normal now to see "unusual" lists win regular ol' 40K, (e.g. pure Primaris doing 2nd in the first Heat) if you're coming from the insanely heavily houseruled variants like ITC & co.


The latter just don't have all that much in common with "40K" these days.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Sunny Side Up wrote:
Guessed the result? No. But it's pretty normal now to see "unusual" lists win regular ol' 40K, (e.g. pure Primaris doing 2nd in the first Heat) if you're coming from the insanely heavily houseruled variants like ITC & co.


The latter just don't have all that much in common with "40K" these days.


Also more the fact that no one bothered attending the GT Final because they wern't using the latest FAQ and the terrain/rulespack is terrible. Also judges rulings have been...questionable...throughout every GW heat.

Lets not forget that the ork player slow played almost every game from what I hear and barely got passed turn 2/3, which doesn't seem to be an issue for GW, but has a very big impact . Shows in the fact that he got barely any VPs.

Gratz either way to the winners.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 KillswitchUK wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
Guessed the result? No. But it's pretty normal now to see "unusual" lists win regular ol' 40K, (e.g. pure Primaris doing 2nd in the first Heat) if you're coming from the insanely heavily houseruled variants like ITC & co.


The latter just don't have all that much in common with "40K" these days.


Also more the fact that no one bothered attending the GT Final because they wern't using the latest FAQ and the terrain/rulespack is terrible. Also judges rulings have been...questionable...throughout every GW heat.

Lets not forget that the ork player slow played almost every game from what I hear and barely got passed turn 2/3, which doesn't seem to be an issue for GW, but has a very big impact . Shows in the fact that he got barely any VPs.

Gratz either way to the winners.



Did he? Dunno. Just saying different lists tend to win.

And 2/3 turns is pretty normal if you don't have cheaters using fast-rolling/moving to cheat with the dice/movements and fraudulent "theory-hammering" turn 5/6 under the pretence of avoiding "fast-play" like pretty much the entire Top 50 at the London GT.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/13 16:17:59


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Sunny Side Up wrote:
 KillswitchUK wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
Guessed the result? No. But it's pretty normal now to see "unusual" lists win regular ol' 40K, (e.g. pure Primaris doing 2nd in the first Heat) if you're coming from the insanely heavily houseruled variants like ITC & co.


The latter just don't have all that much in common with "40K" these days.


Also more the fact that no one bothered attending the GT Final because they wern't using the latest FAQ and the terrain/rulespack is terrible. Also judges rulings have been...questionable...throughout every GW heat.

Lets not forget that the ork player slow played almost every game from what I hear and barely got passed turn 2/3, which doesn't seem to be an issue for GW, but has a very big impact . Shows in the fact that he got barely any VPs.

Gratz either way to the winners.



Did he? Dunno. Just saying different lists tend to win.

And 2/3 turns is pretty normal if you don't have cheaters using fast-rolling/moving to cheat with the dice/movements and fraudulent "theory-hammering" turn 5/6 under the pretence of avoiding "fast-play" like pretty much the entire Top 50 at the London GT.



What lol?

I alos hear he also slow played at Heat 2 and last years London GT where a ref had to watch the table so yeah, slow play is a thing.
   
Made in gb
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Birmingham, UK

Slow play or not - do we have a list?
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

Yeah, looking at that sheet, it's clear he slow played. 0 favorite games, only 3 out of the top 34 got that.

3rd lowest points killed out of the top 24. 3200 points over 4 games. Meanwhile, the guy in second had 7500 points killed.

That's just ridiculous. Hope that guy feels good about his cheating trophy.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in gb
Daring Dark Eldar Raider Rider





 djones520 wrote:
Yeah, looking at that sheet, it's clear he slow played. 0 favorite games, only 3 out of the top 34 got that.

3rd lowest points killed out of the top 24. 3200 points over 4 games. Meanwhile, the guy in second had 7500 points killed.

That's just ridiculous. Hope that guy feels good about his cheating trophy.


3200 points over 5 games.

I don't think this indicates cheating, it seems more like a consequence of playing a horde army competitively. Don't try to kill stuff, just drown the table in bodies and cover all the objectives. Time out because moving 100-200 models each turn takes a while.
   
Made in ru
Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle





 djones520 wrote:
Yeah, looking at that sheet, it's clear he slow played. 0 favorite games, only 3 out of the top 34 got that.

3rd lowest points killed out of the top 24. 3200 points over 4 games. Meanwhile, the guy in second had 7500 points killed.

That's just ridiculous. Hope that guy feels good about his cheating trophy.


wow-wow-wow, it escalated quickly.
"Cheating Trophy"?

Do you think if his opponents felt he had been intentionaly slowing the games they woulndn't call in judges?
Orks are slow to play mainly because they have all 4 phases.
Of course tau, which mainly have 1 phase per turn, are faster to play (insanely faster).

But I think main source of Orks' success was due to the Eternal War in play without maelstrom.
I think he just covered the table with bodies and endured.

Looking forward to see the list on Warhammer-Community.
As I see they didn't show his games on WarhammerTV on Twitch.

P.S. Am I the only one who wonders what's included in the lunch at GT Finals?))

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/13 17:23:24


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Fan67 wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
Yeah, looking at that sheet, it's clear he slow played. 0 favorite games, only 3 out of the top 34 got that.

3rd lowest points killed out of the top 24. 3200 points over 4 games. Meanwhile, the guy in second had 7500 points killed.

That's just ridiculous. Hope that guy feels good about his cheating trophy.


wow-wow-wow, it escalated quickly.
"Cheating Trophy"?

Do you think if his opponents felt he had been intentionaly slowing the games they woulndn't call in judges?
Orks are slow to play mainly because they have all 4 phases.
Of course tau, which mainly have 1 phase per turn, are faster to play (insanely faster).

But I think main source of Orks' success was due to the Eternal War in play without maelstrom.
I think he just covered the table with bodies and endured.

Looking forward to see the list on Warhammer-Community.
As I see they didn't show his games on WarhammerTV on Twitch.

P.S. Am I the only one who wonders what's included in the lunch at GT Finals?))


There was a few opponents of his who told me he slow played. He was offered to play over time end in the last round but forced his opponent to shake his hand at turn 3 because they only had 20 minutes left to play, even after being told they can play on by a judge. Other players played upto 90 minuted over set time.
The guy with Daemons on one of the top table had over 200 models and made it to turn 6.
This was clearly intentional and he has done it at other events too. A lot of peoples testimony's are on facebook

Yeah. He got an opponent to shake at the end of round 3. Then the events team said it's Ok to keep playing as there is plenty of time but he refused too carry on. Other tables played around an hour longer


I walked past to my table at the start round 4 and he was already arguing about terrain....


I heard the exact same from a buddy of mine who was there.
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




Well a guy who says he knows him on Reddit certainly doesn't seem to think it was cheating as there's a congratulations thread. I'm not sure how much we should buy "lots of testimony over Facebook" (maybe like how rules errata shouldn't be published on Facebook).

Anyway, they also posted a snippet of his list:

"3x30 boys, two weird boys, two painboyz, warboss, two trucks with 10 tankbustas, alot of grot guns"
   
Made in gb
Infiltrating Broodlord




UK

My brother played him and while he said he was a nice dude, he did slow play. if they had got past turn 3, he ( my brother) would have racked up more points.

I would add though, that that's just one of the down sides to running a horde army. it naturally takes longer. You can do things to speed up the game of course, but it does take longer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/13 18:47:20


 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Chess clocks

   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Horde armies don't cause slow play, they just provide a built in excuse. It's harder to play quickly with a high model count army, but it's possible.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I played him at the finals. Firstly for those asking his list:
Warboss on foot, relic choppa and combi skorcha
2 painboyz
2 kff melta
2 weirdboyz with jump.
4x30 boyz.
6 Kustom mega kannons
2 chinorks full of tankbustas.

On the event overall, I attended with a beta army and self imposed the limits on myself. One other guy at the event was doing the same. TBH I was treating the whole thing as LGT warm up since the tables are a bit of a joke (I played on one board with a single piece of line of sight blocking terrain. The other 4 all had windowed ruins if anything) and the judging was poor. The ork player and a couple of others were complained about multiple times and ‘warned’ which seemingly had no impact or effect whatsoever.

Feels very much like for GW it’s a big advertisement for the game and having a winner get disqualified or penalised is bad press so they refuse to actually make any calls.

Will say that aside from a couple of people though there were a lot of top chaps around and had a good weekend.
Next up proper 40k at the LGT

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/14 05:49:00


   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Dorset, England

I was really happy when I saw the Orks had shown everyone whose da boss, but if it was just bad sportsmanship then that's rubbish

Dammit Morgen, Ork players have a reputation of being the most enjoyable players to face in 40k to uphold!
   
Made in gb
Dispassionate Imperial Judge






HATE Club, East London

Sneggy wrote:
I was treating the whole thing as LGT warm up since the tables are a bit of a joke (I played on one board with a single piece of line of sight blocking terrain. The other 4 all had windowed ruins if anything)


Um...good luck. By London GT standards that’s pretty generous. Last year, from what I remember, I think it was four identical sprayed-grey corner ruins and two lumps of polystyrene per table, on every table.

No wait, there were a few actually painted crystal formations randomly thrown in with absolutely no attempt to match the game mats.

   
Made in ie
Fresh-Faced New User




 ArbitorIan wrote:
Sneggy wrote:
I was treating the whole thing as LGT warm up since the tables are a bit of a joke (I played on one board with a single piece of line of sight blocking terrain. The other 4 all had windowed ruins if anything)


Um...good luck. By London GT standards that’s pretty generous. Last year, from what I remember, I think it was four identical sprayed-grey corner ruins and two lumps of polystyrene per table, on every table.

No wait, there were a few actually painted crystal formations randomly thrown in with absolutely no attempt to match the game mats.


LGT has a very detailed rules pack this year that shows exactly whats LOS blocking and whats not. Each board hass predefined scenery in a predefined arrangement. Apperantly they also invested heavily in the actual terrain models.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




You can clearly see by be points listed he slow
Played got zero favorite games, had the lowest points killed, and never got past turn 3. The fact he killed almost nothing showed his entire strat was to just slowly move his models on objectives and slow play so his army didn’t die... he wouldnt have if he wasn’t trying to play poorly or cheat his opponent.
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

Sneggy wrote:
I played him at the finals. Firstly for those asking his list:
Warboss on foot, relic choppa and combi skorcha
2 painboyz
2 kff melta
2 weirdboyz with jump.
4x30 boyz.
6 Kustom mega kannons
2 chinorks full of tankbustas.


On slow play. I’d say he was. Basically played two turns then managed to get a mostly theory crafted turn 3 after he refused to play over time despite other tables going well over an hour over and us having 25mins left at that stage. Was adamant we wouldn’t get through turn four no matter what.
He was also currently ahead but would have lost on points if we had continued/likely been tabled by turn 5 if we had gone that far.


General consensus at the event wasn’t brilliant as shown by the applause for third and second and the pretty flat silence for his ‘win’.
Apparently he was the same at heats according to those who played him.

On the event overall, I attended with a beta army and self imposed the limits on myself. One other guy at the event was doing the same. TBH I was treating the whole thing as LGT warm up since the tables are a bit of a joke (I played on one board with a single piece of line of sight blocking terrain. The other 4 all had windowed ruins if anything) and the judging was poor. The ork player and a couple of others were complained about multiple times and ‘warned’ which seemingly had no impact or effect whatsoever.

Feels very much like for GW it’s a big advertisement for the game and having a winner get disqualified or penalised is bad press so they refuse to actually make any calls.

Will say that aside from a couple of people though there were a lot of top chaps around and had a good weekend. Just that game left a sour taste in my mouth.
Next up proper ;0k at the LGT


Sounded to me like he was conceding. If you guys were allowed to start a turn, and continue play after time was over, he had no ground to stand on.

Sucks though, both for you, and that someone like him would win the whole affair.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Polonius wrote:
Horde armies don't cause slow play, they just provide a built in excuse. It's harder to play quickly with a high model count army, but it's possible.


100% agree. The ork player on my ATC team has bought movement trays, and can easily get 6 rounds in on standard tournament time, with over 200 models in his list.

It's a player issue, definitely not an army one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/13 21:26:28


Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




As far as I’m concerned toy soldiers is toy soldiers. Registered with rules judges my slow Play concerns with no expectations of any result change or anything but so they could keep an eye and went on with my event. I don’t think it’s ideal he won like that, but it’s done now.

   
Made in gb
Dispassionate Imperial Judge






HATE Club, East London

Meatgrinder wrote:
LGT has a very detailed rules pack this year that shows exactly whats LOS blocking and whats not. Each board hass predefined scenery in a predefined arrangement. Apperantly they also invested heavily in the actual terrain models.


By their Facebook page, last week (with two weeks to go) the organiser took delivery of a mass load of white polystyrene. So, given that they’ve said similar things in years past, I’ll believe that when I see it!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/13 21:35:26


   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




He has been live streamed twice and having played Vs him alot, he doesn't delay turns. He is just a very competent player and knows his stuff!


From le Reddit.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Audustum wrote:
He has been live streamed twice and having played Vs him alot, he doesn't delay turns. He is just a very competent player and knows his stuff!


From le Reddit.


If he knows his stuff then why is he so slow? #rubbish
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Audustum wrote:
He has been live streamed twice and having played Vs him alot, he doesn't delay turns. He is just a very competent player and knows his stuff!


From le Reddit.
I'm working from memory here so I may be wrong but I don't think he got past turn 3 (or was it 2?) in his streamed game in the Heat he qualified in either.
Someone with a WarhammerTV subscripting can go check.

Killing 1/2 to 1/3 of everyone else in the top 10 and no fav game score is telling even without people who played him coming forward to confirm.
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




Little Rock, Arkansas

From listening to details, it does sound like GW didn't want any kind of bad sportsmanship smells, so the judges were disinclined to take action. A ripe situation for dubious play methods to sneak in.

Yeah someone tried the "end the game early" ruse on me at a GT when we had like 25 minutes left and we both had like 3 units to move. Judge told him there's clearly time to do another turn given our situation, and if he refuses to go on then he is conceding. (Of course the next turn took him from barely hanging on to victory to outright losing.)

I wasn't at the event, but I'm hearing a lot of testimony from people that were, and it's really making me want to dismiss his victory as invalid. (For what my opinion matters anyway.)

20000+ points
Tournament reports:
1234567 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Audustum wrote:
He has been live streamed twice and having played Vs him alot, he doesn't delay turns. He is just a very competent player and knows his stuff!


From le Reddit.

No doubt he knows his stuff becuase he knows how to slow play a game to death.
Bottom line Is He killed 648pts of the enemies army per game...That is it. Which means that he should have been tabled rather quickly since if you let the enemy shoot you for that long without reducing his numbers your going to have a bad time. And a 5++ 6+++ isn't enough to stay alive vs other armies if you go past turn 2-3. He killed no warlords, he had 1/3 the amount of killed units points as everyone else, and not a single player gave him a point for a good game...if we didn’t have the entire tournament of people call him out I would still look at the data and said he’s a bad player.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/14 01:28:16


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Golden Throne

Every codex has access to the Stratagem, "Slowhammer".
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

There is no controversy here, just people bitter about their defeat.

After all, Orks always win.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I was there. The problem was that when you got to the top tables there were a number of horde lists that were dominating. The final game was Morgan's orks vs. some other chap's nurgle horde list with the plaguecrawlers. Morgan always has the slow play card available to use. Looking at the numbers posted, I can see why people are pre-supposing slow play.

The meta has gone too far the other way with horde. However, this tournament did NOT include the FAQ changes so will be invalid as to how 40k will continue to develop. In that sense the London GT will be more interesting.

Also Max Barton bowed out of the 40k GT and instead did Shadespire. He won that instead (albeit with Shadespire's current OP list lol).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/14 08:45:38


 
   
 
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