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In my experience, one of the primary ways "wobbly model" came into play was from assaulting ruins. Now that the FAQ has changed that, I don't see wobbly model being useful (not saying it was a good rule, just in how it was used) In the few games I've played/seen since, the rule has just mostly led to confusion, players putting models halfway up a wall or balanced on the 1mm lip of a building. Personally, I've never really cared for the rule, I think if a model can't be placed, then it shouldn't be allowed to exist in that spot. I'm sure there are all sorts of implications of this rule I'm not considering-- but it seems like removing it would be the most simple solution.

I like driving my land raider on fences so I kinda need it.

It's usefulness will also depend upon your army and the age of your mini's.
My older top heavy metal mini's definataly need it, harlequins kinda need it as half the squad is way overhanging their bases, weighting bases etc is a thing but it doesn't help certain models.

What your describing is people abusing WM. The model has to be able to be placed and stand without support, you then WM it and move it so it doesn't fall when dice or tape measures are bounced of the terrain they are on.

Or the other favourite is some bystander bumps the table.

I've played on tables that had sloped hills, and watched my models slip and slide down it since model plastic doesn't exactly have the most grip to them. So we used WMS because half an ork army trapped up a hill is not exactly a fun experience to play or to watch.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
I've played on tables that had sloped hills, and watched my models slip and slide down it since model plastic doesn't exactly have the most grip to them. So we used WMS because half an ork army trapped up a hill is not exactly a fun experience to play or to watch.

I can definitely see that as being one way the rule is useful and not abusive, however, I think to put this situation under the "models on different levels having a 6 inch unit coherency" would be more clear and would allow the removal of the messy WMS rule.

Baneblades need it sometimes. Sadly, while the rules may endorse tanks driving through woods, the terrain does not always allow it.

Alternatively, and this is something I'd support but I don't know how it affected the game, we could bring back the old 3rd edition rule for maneuvering superheavy tanks: Any terrain less than 6" tall is "crushed flat" and removed from the table if driven over by a tank, and more than 6" high becomes impassable.

SonofSlamguinius wrote:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
I've played on tables that had sloped hills, and watched my models slip and slide down it since model plastic doesn't exactly have the most grip to them. So we used WMS because half an ork army trapped up a hill is not exactly a fun experience to play or to watch.

I can definitely see that as being one way the rule is useful and not abusive, however, I think to put this situation under the "models on different levels having a 6 inch unit coherency" would be more clear and would allow the removal of the messy WMS rule.

That doesn't help when you put models partway up a slope as they slog towards the crest and watch as they slide back down. You need a mechanism to mark how far up the hill the model has got even if the model refuses to stay there.

I used it every time I did something in terrain. Models slipped off so much you'd think it was lubricated.

I really like using it for a few reasons;

#1 - It's weird to me that something "alive" can't change it's form slightly. Why shouldn't a Winged Hive Tyrant be able to walk under a bridge? You mean just because it has these beautiful wings modelled that I can't walk there? That's nuts to me. And Magnus the Red has amazing wings and a huge model, but often can't even stay up on a ledge. The dude freakin' flies! I think he should be able to jump up a building and attack people on top. Heck, sometimes a Wraith Knight is BIGGER than the building the units are standing on. Why shouldn't it be able to swipe at enemies on the second floor?

So yeah, I like it (and measuring 1" from the model, not the base) so that battles can actually happen. Yes, those Marines are climbing the walls and fighting at full effectiveness while doing so, but so what?


#2 - I think it improves the play of the game. It's not good when places are 100% safe. Being more challenging? Sure, but that's why non-flying models suffer a penalty to their charge range when charging across a crater. Models should never be safe, in my opinion, and locations that increase your survival without ensuring it are better than spots that are just "well, you don't have shooting, so sucks to be you".

Additionally, Wobbly Model Syndrome also really helps with the flow of the game. So long as you measure things out, it prevents people from wasting time finding finicky or tricky positions for their models to stand at. It just helps players actually PLAY the game. I think this is worth sometimes suspending your disbelief as to whether or not you could actually walk somewhere.


The rest of the rules do a great job in allowing or disallowing where models can be (you need to Fly or be Infantry to go up ruins, which is one of the reasons having the Infantry keyword is awesome, and I like my infantry games), so we really don't need extra rules for allowing or disallowing what can go where.

 Yarium wrote:
I really like using it for a few reasons;

#1 - It's weird to me that something "alive" can't change it's form slightly. Why shouldn't a Winged Hive Tyrant be able to walk under a bridge? You mean just because it has these beautiful wings modelled that I can't walk there? That's nuts to me. And Magnus the Red has amazing wings and a huge model, but often can't even stay up on a ledge. The dude freakin' flies! I think he should be able to jump up a building and attack people on top. Heck, sometimes a Wraith Knight is BIGGER than the building the units are standing on. Why shouldn't it be able to swipe at enemies on the second floor?

So yeah, I like it (and measuring 1" from the model, not the base) so that battles can actually happen. Yes, those Marines are climbing the walls and fighting at full effectiveness while doing so, but so what?


#2 - I think it improves the play of the game. It's not good when places are 100% safe. Being more challenging? Sure, but that's why non-flying models suffer a penalty to their charge range when charging across a crater. Models should never be safe, in my opinion, and locations that increase your survival without ensuring it are better than spots that are just "well, you don't have shooting, so sucks to be you".

Additionally, Wobbly Model Syndrome also really helps with the flow of the game. So long as you measure things out, it prevents people from wasting time finding finicky or tricky positions for their models to stand at. It just helps players actually PLAY the game. I think this is worth sometimes suspending your disbelief as to whether or not you could actually walk somewhere.


The rest of the rules do a great job in allowing or disallowing where models can be (you need to Fly or be Infantry to go up ruins, which is one of the reasons having the Infantry keyword is awesome, and I like my infantry games), so we really don't need extra rules for allowing or disallowing what can go where.

None of what your describing is wobbly model, your talking about house rules.

Wobbly model, at least the way I've seen it played for 4 editions is the model must be able to be placed and stand without support from the player. If it can't you can't claim wobbly model.

I like it. Especially when you're using improvised terrain because you spent all of your money on models and haven't gotten around to the scenery yet, it can come in handy.

The ruins thing was probably 75% of why I used it. However we have a lot of cool terrain at our shop, and a lot of times the models will fall down or slide, so we still use it in every game.

Ice_can wrote:
Wobbly model, at least the way I've seen it played for 4 editions is the model must be able to be placed and stand without support from the player. If it can't you can't claim wobbly model.

Isn't the entire point of WMS that the model CAN'T be "placed and stand without support from the player", because, ya know, it's wobbly and falls over?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Wobbly model, at least the way I've seen it played for 4 editions is the model must be able to be placed and stand without support from the player. If it can't you can't claim wobbly model.

Isn't the entire point of WMS that the model CAN'T be "placed and stand without support from the player", because, ya know, it's wobbly and falls over?

Not then it can't be placed, if it stands its ok but if it needs player support what stops me wobbly modeling my model into free space above the table?
If player support is allowed it's legal. If the model has to stand without support from the player. It stops inane BS.

Also wobbly model is a rule from the days of full metal models on bases smaller than the model that would fall over on a 5 degree incline. Heck my lascannon dev from 3rd edition could tell you which side of a table was lowest as he couldn't face that way. He would fall over on a slightly inclined table.

Yes, of course WMS is needed. There will always be situations where the optimal position for a model puts it at risk of breaking, and there will always be TFGs that refuse to allow you to mark the position and put it somewhere safer without an explicit rule permitting it.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Isn't the entire point of WMS that the model CAN'T be "placed and stand without support from the player", because, ya know, it's wobbly and falls over?

No, the point is for situations where you can place it without support but the model is at risk of falling over. For example, you might be able to balance a model on the top of a ruin near the edge of the table and get it to stand without support, but as soon as you bump the table (and you inevitably will) it's enough to knock it over and drop your delicate model on the floor. It's not supposed to allow you to put models somewhere they couldn't otherwise go.

I use it frequently as I have a lot of metal models and awkward poses that make the models top heavy.

 Peregrine wrote:
No, the point is for situations where you can place it without support but the model is at risk of falling over. For example, you might be able to balance a model on the top of a ruin near the edge of the table and get it to stand without support, but as soon as you bump the table (and you inevitably will) it's enough to knock it over and drop your delicate model on the floor. It's not supposed to allow you to put models somewhere they couldn't otherwise go.

Thank you

Was starting to think I was alone in this belief.

I use the rule alot for the terrain since having a land raider sitting on something makes it want to fall often.

 Peregrine wrote:
Yes, of course WMS is needed. There will always be situations where the optimal position for a model puts it at risk of breaking, and there will always be TFGs that refuse to allow you to mark the position and put it somewhere safer without an explicit rule permitting it.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Isn't the entire point of WMS that the model CAN'T be "placed and stand without support from the player", because, ya know, it's wobbly and falls over?

No, the point is for situations where you can place it without support but the model is at risk of falling over. For example, you might be able to balance a model on the top of a ruin near the edge of the table and get it to stand without support, but as soon as you bump the table (and you inevitably will) it's enough to knock it over and drop your delicate model on the floor. It's not supposed to allow you to put models somewhere they couldn't otherwise go.

What about if I want to put my model on a slight hill that a person could obviously stand on but the models slide down it? I can't put them there without holding it so according to you I cant use WMS and say I am on that hill?

 roflmajog wrote:
What about if I want to put my model on a slight hill that a person could obviously stand on but the models slide down it? I can't put them there without holding it so according to you I cant use WMS and say I am on that hill?

Depends on the hill. Is it a hill where a model could reasonably be placed, and the only problem is that you're playing on a slippery plastic RoB board or using a heavy metal model that slips down on surfaces that would hold a plastic model just fine? Yeah, WMS it. It's clearly the kind of space where models normally go and the issue is entirely with getting the model to be stable. Is it a steep hill where models don't normally fit very well, and you're entirely appealing to the "it would be realistic to be able to walk there" argument? No, that's not WMS.

I don't want my models to break... end of story.