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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/14/14th-may-codex-harlequins-masque-formsgw-homepage-post-1/














Relics, Warlord Traits, and Stratagem preview
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/16/16th-may-harlequins-preview-stratagems-warlord-traits-and-moregw-homepage-post-1/


Index/CA to Codex point differences
Shadowseer -9
Troupe Master +11
Troupes -2 base, -3 with weapon
Death Jester -15 total
Solitaire -12
Skyweaver -5 base -10 with weapon
Voidweaver -0
Starweaver -0
Haywire Cannon +1



New Tactics for Harlequins Codex

Midnight sorrow seems the strongest to me, with Frozen Stars also appealing to me simply by virtue of being the easiest to leverage. 5 Attacks per player + A troupe master to ensure those hits wound seems quite attractive.

Silent Shroad seems made to go alongside Dark Creed homunculi.

Dreaming Shadow seems useful for those strange people that play foot-quins with pistols, like a weird amalgam of fire dragons and dark eldar wyches.

Spite for transport fusions and veiled path for...dunno. Veiled Path seems the least openly useful, perhaps for character assassins/elite hunting? Against units that hit on 2's (Custodes, genestealers, Wyches, Characters) their trait is quite likely to come into effect, removing 1/5 of melee damage. Then the Shadowseer removes a further 1/3 or 1/4. Then invul negates a further 1/2.

A single attack at Str 4/5 that hits on 2's, assuming veiled path didn't roll a 1 on either dice, against a harlequin model in range of a shadowseer, Model has a 1/3 chance of missing (rolling a 1, or rolling the veiled number), 1/2 chance of wounding and a 1/2 chance of being saved. If I'm not being stupid that's a 17% chance of a wound going through for each hit. Not great, but not bad.

IMO the top 3 (in no order) are Midnight Sorrow, Soaring Spite, and Frozen Stars.

Midnight Sorrow[/b:] is just good for any type of TAC list, a few Troupes with melee, some Skyweavers, TM's, etc.. it will help you get to where you need to do both damage and survive.

[b]Soaring Spite: will be the Gunboat/Movement shooting army game play, if you like Starweavers, Voidweavers, and FP's a lot, this is the one for you.

Frozen Stars: Melee focus armies, 4+ Troupes, 2-3 Troupe Masters, all melee weapons, Solitaire and some Skyweavers. The +1 attack will make it so MSU melee armies are even stronger, a 6 man unit now will have 30 attacks, with a TM near that will be either 15 or 17 wound roles (Caress vs Embrace/Kiss) compare to. But the Skyweavers gaining an Extra attack is also nice b.c they are 2D weapons, easier to kill Primaris and a like.

I think a lot of it will depend on weapon rebalance and the other subfaction factors (stratagem trait relic etc) but at first glance I agree midnight sorrow and spite seem like the two strongest. If Harlequins go hard back into being a pure melee army, Stars might make some appearances, but the two defensive ones would need some serious Agents of Vect level shenanigans to pull them up into the conversation.

The fear one is just another "are you running a freakshow soup list" check, like it is with the Haemie Coven leadership one.

And the answer there is a horrible grin and "yyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessss" from me.

Soaring Spite, Midnight Sorrow and Frozen Stars are the winners for me. Since they're all good, whichever of these three has the most appealing trait + relic will be the one I run with.

The two big winners for me are Midnight sorrow, consolidate 6", and Soaring spite, flying units can advance and shoot pistols. Being able to consolidate 6" and fall back an additional D6" is going to really help tie up the enemy line. And with Soaring spite we can load up a starweaver with 6 fusion pistols, move 22" and still fire them 6" for a 28" threat range which is very nice. I have a feeling that nuero disruptions will be given a buff so this form may be really good with them too. An interesting note about Soaring Spite is that it says "models with this form that can fly" but currently there are no models in our army that can fly and use a pistol so does this mean a new unit or an ability that lets troops fly?

Frozen Star is interesting in that we already have so many attacks that we don't really need another. It might be really good with Skyweavers. I think I would take Midnight sorrow and Soaring Spite over this one always, which is sad.

I am surprised that there are no -1 to hit forms as that actually seems on theme for us but I guess GW has learned their lesson with Eldar.

 lambsandlions wrote:
The two big winners for me are Midnight sorrow, consolidate 6", and Soaring spite, flying units can advance and shoot pistols. Being able to consolidate 6" and fall back an additional D6" is going to really help tie up the enemy line. And with Soaring spite we can load up a starweaver with 6 fusion pistols, move 22" and still fire them 6" for a 28" threat range which is very nice. I have a feeling that nuero disruptions will be given a buff so this form may be really good with them too. An interesting note about Soaring Spite is that it says "models with this form that can fly" but currently there are no models in our army that can fly and use a pistol so does this mean a new unit or an ability that lets troops fly?

Frozen Star is interesting in that we already have so many attacks that we don't really need another. It might be really good with Skyweavers. I think I would take Midnight sorrow and Soaring Spite over this one always, which is sad.

I am surprised that there are no -1 to hit forms as that actually seems on theme for us but I guess GW has learned their lesson with Eldar.

Soaring Spite; Its for assault weapons also, Star/Sky/Void weavers can advance and shoot without -1 to hit with their Shuriken Cannons.

It is so funny seeing Eldar using Tzeench's Locus of Trickery (yes, Veiled Path, I'm looking at you!)

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Soaring Spite; Its for assault weapons also, Star/Sky/Void weavers can advance and shoot without -1 to hit with their Shuriken Cannons.

I didn't catch that. In that case Soaring Spite seems like a clear winner.

the_scotsman wrote:
I think a lot of it will depend on weapon rebalance and the other subfaction factors (stratagem trait relic etc) but at first glance I agree midnight sorrow and spite seem like the two strongest. If Harlequins go hard back into being a pure melee army, Stars might make some appearances, but the two defensive ones would need some serious Agents of Vect level shenanigans to pull them up into the conversation.

The fear one is just another "are you running a freakshow soup list" check, like it is with the Haemie Coven leadership one.

And the answer there is a horrible grin and "yyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessss" from me.

I took a cursory glance through all the Aeldari stuff, and I came up with this, I'm at work so I may have missed something.

Asuryani

Horrify/ -1 leadership
Hemlock/ -2 leadership
Honorable mention: Mind war/ MWs in a leadership contest

Drukhari

The Dark Creed/ -3 leadership
Mantle of Agony/ -1 leadership
Phantasm Grenade Launcher/ -1 leadership

Harlequins

Silent Shroud/ -1
Also according to the warhammer community post Death Jester can reduce the leadership.

So if the Death Jester reduces it by 1 it'll be a -10 to leadership. Can Leadership go negative?

You could even make the Asuryani detachment Ynnari, and use the visarch for another -1 to leadership though really I'm not sure why you would.

LD can not go negative, its lowest is 1, page 175 of rule book

Thanks, so really not much of a point to even go to -10. Still, with mind war and hallucinogen launchers, at - 10 leadership you could do a lot of damage before you even got into models fleeing. Of course some armies have ways to ignore morale losses, and everyone can spend 2 cp to auto pass but you could burn a lot of an opponents cp like that

I'm really really interested in comeback of freak show lists. Might have to make my own for casual games. Damn GW I already had a side project!

Just a quick update from Point cost leaks.

Shadowseer -9
Troupe Master +11
Troupes -2 base, -3 with weapon
Death Jester -15 total
Solitaire -12
Skyweaver -5 base -10 with weapon
Voidweaver -0
Starweaver -0
Haywire Cannon +1

I'm really hoping the Shadowseer gets some substantial buffs; even with the -1 wound aura and grenade launcher she feels substantially worse than the cheaper Farseer. Getting two psychic power choices and Phantasmancy spells that provide utility for mixed Eldar lists would be huge.

 Burnage wrote:
I'm really hoping the Shadowseer gets some substantial buffs; even with the -1 wound aura and grenade launcher she feels substantially worse than the cheaper Farseer. Getting two psychic power choices and Phantasmancy spells that provide utility for mixed Eldar lists would be huge.

IDK i think its 100% worth it was is and i play with 2 each game, i dont feel they are worst at all than a Farseer, just played differently.

For my playstyle, I'm keen on Midnight Sorrow, Frozen Stars and Dreaming Shadow. Soaring Spite is fantastic, but the benefit realistically lasts for the first turn only; after that, you're engaged in combat and rarely advancing much more beyond that as you're already in the backfield and can usually get off Pistol shots without the need to fire. In addition, smart opponents will remove the closest models to make the charges all the more difficult to get off and the goal with any of these Forms is to get into close combat.

While many here deride Dreaming Shadow, I see some cool benefits out of it. I really enjoyed fielding Heel-equin lists of 10 models per Troupe. Knowing I only lose one model from fleeing is comforting. Fielding 3-4 10- strong units that are blitzing up to the lines makes target prioritization all the more difficult for the opponent. Couple that with the occasional ability to take potshots w/ pistols - especially on Overwatch - as I advance in is pretty sweet. Situate the rear models in the unit so they're within 3" of vehicles I don't care to charge right now and get off the occasional buffed Fusion Pistol attack would be pretty cool. Although we'll need to know if you take into consideration the fact the unit Advanced or not. Another benefit comes when you have the unit embarked on a Starweaver that just got destroyed. Disembark 3" closer to a target to get all the more w/in Fusion Melta range, then any 1s you happen to roll could still pay off for you as they leave the field. Pretty slick option there.

Midnight Sorrow, though, is just fantastically good. I was disappointed the Masque I selected from the last codex (The Dance Without End) didn't get its own write-up, but I suppose I have more flexibility now to pick what I like from the Forms provided.

Silent Shroud stratagem is nothing short of amazing, ignoring the overwatch of a unit with lots of flamers etc is well worth 2CP for our fragile Troupes.

Soaring Spite also seem to be blessed with an excellent stratagem alongside their trait, and for only 1CP, when the exact same stratagem is 2CP for the Cult of Red Grief. They're looking like the overall winner so far, but let's wait for the Frozen Stars/Midnight Sorrow stratagem/trait/relic.

 Khaine wrote:
Silent Shroud stratagem is nothing short of amazing, ignoring the overwatch of a unit with lots of flamers etc is well worth 2CP for our fragile Troupes.

Soaring Spite also seem to be blessed with an excellent stratagem alongside their trait, and for only 1CP, when the exact same stratagem is 2CP for the Cult of Red Grief. They're looking like the overall winner so far, but let's wait for the Frozen Stars/Midnight Sorrow stratagem/trait/relic.

I was hoping that we would get a way to ignore overwatch but I am sad to hear it is masque locked. We really need it as right now we almost auto lose to tau overwatch. Jumping back into a starweaver might be nice. Most the time if the starweaver is still alive it will eat overwatch and be right next to your troupes.

Sad to see we are most likely not getting any new units. We really need something else.

I'm pretty sad to see the Starweaver's cost stayed the same.
Naked Harlies are still completely useless. You're paying 13pts base + 16.5pts for a spot in a Starweaver, so almost 30pts. Adding a 6pts weapon will always be cost efficient. And since there doesn't seem to be anything that helps foot harlies, the Starweaver is still mandatory.

Haywire cannons went slightly up, and neuro-disruptors stayed the same. So they should have a vastly different profile now. We'll have to wait and see.

Solitaire going down 12pts was expected, but really not what I was hoping for. It's a 1-per-army mini, supposed to be a killing machine. It should be more than a 100pts model with just a movement trick.

DJ going down 15pts and the hint that the special rule reduces leadership makes me fear it's just that: a slight change to the special rule so it isn't 100% useless (but mostly is outside of freakshow lists), and a lowered point cost to make it almost fieldable. I fear it didn't get a proper redesign (but hopefully I'm wrong here).

So far it looks like the codex is just a few point drops, with some not-so-inventive Masque Forms and stratagems slapped on top. It's what most armies got, but after the DE codex I was really hoping for something more.
Maybe there are still some hidden gems we haven't seen, but so far it looks pretty bland to me.

One thing to remember is the masque forms are a straight line buff for Harlequins. Harlequins are far from the worst army out there already and the leaked stratagems are VERY powerful. A pure harlequins army could easily field two battalions without losing any effectiveness and I expect we'll have a LOT of CP to work with.

I'm hoping for some improvements to statlines, we'll see. Solitaires especially.

darkarchonlord wrote:
One thing to remember is the masque forms are a straight line buff for Harlequins. Harlequins are far from the worst army out there already and the leaked stratagems are VERY powerful. A pure harlequins army could easily field two battalions without losing any effectiveness and I expect we'll have a LOT of CP to work with.

I'm hoping for some improvements to statlines, we'll see. Solitaires especially.

Solitaire's are already good and now that they are cheaper thats insane. 98pts total for them with traits, i wish i could have 3 lol.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

darkarchonlord wrote:
One thing to remember is the masque forms are a straight line buff for Harlequins. Harlequins are far from the worst army out there already and the leaked stratagems are VERY powerful. A pure harlequins army could easily field two battalions without losing any effectiveness and I expect we'll have a LOT of CP to work with.

I'm hoping for some improvements to statlines, we'll see. Solitaires especially.

Solitaire's are already good and now that they are cheaper thats insane. 98pts total for them with traits, i wish i could have 3 lol.

Perhaps in a vacuum, they are good, but in practice I find them underwhelming. In order to truly be terrifying, I'd say they need the ability to avoid overwatch, and reroll their own failed hit attempts. The 3++ is nice, but they are still only T3, and multi wounds will wreck then.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

darkarchonlord wrote:
One thing to remember is the masque forms are a straight line buff for Harlequins. Harlequins are far from the worst army out there already and the leaked stratagems are VERY powerful. A pure harlequins army could easily field two battalions without losing any effectiveness and I expect we'll have a LOT of CP to work with.

I'm hoping for some improvements to statlines, we'll see. Solitaires especially.

Solitaire's are already good and now that they are cheaper thats insane. 98pts total for them with traits, i wish i could have 3 lol.

I don't understand. How do you use it?
The solitaire disappoints me every time I play it.
Its only trick is to be able to get past enemy lines and charge a lone character, but it doesn't have the power to kill one. Each time I tried that, I successfully charged the character I wanted, only to see the Solitaire completely fail at doing any real damage, and get destroyed on the following turn (or even when the character fights back).
Math tells you it can't kill a space marine character, and usually not even a cryptek.

The only good way to use it I could find is to actually charge a heavy weapon/devastator squad in the back, but it takes at least a couple turns to get there, and shuricannons are usually okay at this job.

This one-per-army murder machine has a lower damage output than two basic infantry model. That just doesn't make any sense.

You dont need it to kill all character and you dont need to charge character all the time, it being able to fit anywhere is the key to the solitaire, its a sneak assassin. I go after Artillery, Havoc's and such, Tau drone units you can't reach well, or those Broadsidess. its easy to hide him out of LoS to stop overwatch, and you can fallback + charge again at something else if you needed too.

I try to have him kinda close to my Skyweavers as well, he will normally get 3-4 wounds through and i try to not charge T6+ units.

Against SM sure he might not kill a character, go after something else, against Guard, CWE or Daemons, something with T3 characters he is even better against. He wont be great against everything, its about picking the fights and timing the attacks.

Edit: PS: I almost never charge him turn 1, i rather wait a turn and set up a much better option to do huge damage rather than some damage and get no where.

 mokoshkana wrote:
The 3++ is nice, but they are still only T3, and multi wounds will wreck then.

This is the problem. It's not difficult to get wounds on them, especially mortal.

They need a few more wounds at least or more damage output. Compare solitaires to other assassins, they're substantially less impactful.

New info is up:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/16/16th-may-harlequins-preview-stratagems-warlord-traits-and-moregw-homepage-post-1/

Interesting to note that there seems to be a relic just for the DJ (Curtainfall)

Some excellent tricks for a Soaring Spite warlord.

Two Phantasmancy powers for the Shadowseer is a must! Definitely a must needed buff. Two different -1 to hit powers is pretty good as well.

Re-roll charge Warlord Trait has my eye.

I also like the "Chapter Master" upgrade stratagem. Re-roll hits of 1 aura is tempting to go along w/ re-roll all wound rolls.

The relics are meh - but fun. The Soaring Spite relic has some utility though.

Stratagems are shaping up to be pretty useful. I imagine using Lightning Fast Reactions, Prismatic Blur, and Isha's Weeping every turn for every game. At 1 CP (LFR is actually 2CP) each you can spread those defensive buffs around.

Eh, the -1 powers are situational to me:
Fog of Dreams (WC7) Only works on one enemy unit
Veil of Tears (WC7) Only works on one friendly unit
So in the best of circumstances, one Troupe can be a -1 across the board and a -2 against one specific unit. Veil is definitely superior to Fog though. Although, they both work in shooting and melee, so that makes them a bit better.

 mokoshkana wrote:
Eh, the -1 powers are situational to me:
Fog of Dreams (WC7) Only works on one enemy unit
Veil of Tears (WC7) Only works on one friendly unit
So in the best of circumstances, one Troupe can be a -1 across the board and a -2 against one specific unit. Veil is definitely superior to Fog though. Although, they both work in shooting and melee, so that makes them a bit better.

.. and can then pop Lightning Fast Reactions for an additional -1 to hit. All our bikes and transports have a native -1 to hit as well. Viel only targets Infantry, but the bikes and transports can benefit from Fog.