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Made in us
Been Around the Block






So I have a question about the ad mech strategem Clandestine Infiltration and other strategems like it.

Can you use it multiple times before deployment or are you still just limited to using it once. I know you are limited to use the same strategem once per phase, but deployment isn’t a phase. Not sure if anyone could point me to where in the rules I could find some clarification.


Clandestine Infiltration

Use this strategem during deployment, you can set up a stygies unit from your army in ambush instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the beginning of the first battle round but before the first turn begins, the unit is reveled. Set it up anywhere on the battlefield more than 9” away from enemy models.

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 Bonkz wrote:
So I have a question about the ad mech strategem Clandestine Infiltration and other strategems like it.

Can you use it multiple times before deployment or are you still just limited to using it once. I know you are limited to use the same strategem once per phase, but deployment isn’t a phase. Not sure if anyone could point me to where in the rules I could find some clarification.


Clandestine Infiltration

Use this strategem during deployment, you can set up a stygies unit from your army in ambush instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the beginning of the first battle round but before the first turn begins, the unit is reveled. Set it up anywhere on the battlefield more than 9” away from enemy models.
Page 215 of the rulebook has the Strategic Discipline rule which answers your Question.

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+++++There are currently ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN (115) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
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Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Been Around the Block






Awesome thank you !

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London

On a similar and humorous note, I saw the Deathwatch version of this strategem is slightly worded differently from the other versions (BCB are you listening?), in that it states you can only ever use it once. Whereas other Codex versions state "once per battle", this just says "once". As soon as you use it, you can never use it again. Ever.

Granted you'd be the biggest dick to ever even think of calling that out but just a humourous thing I noticed in the book.
   
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 Valkyrie wrote:
On a similar and humorous note, I saw the Deathwatch version of this strategem is slightly worded differently from the other versions (BCB are you listening?), in that it states you can only ever use it once. Whereas other Codex versions state "once per battle", this just says "once". As soon as you use it, you can never use it again. Ever.

Granted you'd be the biggest dick to ever even think of calling that out but just a humourous thing I noticed in the book.
You are my new favourite person. I would expect GW to errata this just to keep the wording consistent rather than fixing this "issue". Consider this my most favourite RaW oddity so far.

You can't even pull an "Intended" argument because it's explicitly different from every other stratagem that says "You can only use this Stratagem once per battle." The Relic stratagem is LITERALLY next to it, so the different wording is intentional.

Edit: Someone on a Discord server I am on pointed out something, it might be to limit its use in Apocalypse matches.
Must be to avoid it being used multiple times in apocalypse games
Since after each "timed break" once per battle stuff resets

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/05/16 15:55:49


Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294
+++++There are currently ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN (115) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Cardiff

Please. Are you seriously arguing the RAW means ‘once ever in your life’? We have a new low if so...

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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Norn Queen






 JohnnyHell wrote:
Please. Are you seriously arguing the RAW means ‘once ever in your life’? We have a new low if so...
The same way people argue whether RaW you subtract 1 from your hit rolls when you move and shoot heavy weapons.

Just because you don't like what the rule says doesn't change what it says. IMHO you are very rude to accuse people who want to play by the rules as "low".

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+++++There are currently ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN (115) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Cardiff

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Please. Are you seriously arguing the RAW means ‘once ever in your life’? We have a new low if so...
The same way people argue whether RaW you subtract 1 from your hit rolls when you move and shoot heavy weapons.

Just because you don't like what the rule says doesn't change what it says. IMHO you are very rude to accuse people who want to play by the rules as "low".


To pull the thread... so who tracks this “once ever in your life”? It’s ludicrous to pretend it makes any sense to use that interpretation, but you do you. And there’s no argument over the Heavy Weapon thing so whatever.

“No, you used the Stratagem a week last Tuesday, that’s it for the rest of your life!”

(Also I didn’t say what you said, nice bonus strawman there)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/16 16:22:42


 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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Kansas, United States

 JohnnyHell wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Please. Are you seriously arguing the RAW means ‘once ever in your life’? We have a new low if so...
The same way people argue whether RaW you subtract 1 from your hit rolls when you move and shoot heavy weapons.

Just because you don't like what the rule says doesn't change what it says. IMHO you are very rude to accuse people who want to play by the rules as "low".


To pull the thread... so who tracks this “once ever in your life”? It’s ludicrous to pretend it makes any sense to use that interpretation, but you do you. And there’s no argument over the Heavy Weapon thing so whatever.

“No, you used the Stratagem a week last Tuesday, that’s it for the rest of your life!”

(Also I didn’t say what you said, nice bonus strawman there)


The problem is, it's not an "interpretation." It's what the rule says. Is it what GW intended? Probably not, because of the aforementioned ludicrousness, but is IS what they SAID. Would I hold someone to that? No. IS it what the rule says? Yes. There's no interpretation to be done here.
   
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Cardiff

I think anyone with half a brain can figure out rules are per game, but hey, go nuts and claim it means “once in forever ever” if you like...

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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Florence, KY

Yes it is an 'interpretation'. It's your interpretation that 'once' means 'once ever' instead of 'once a game' or 'once a week' or any other interpretations. You're adding a qualifier that's simply not there.

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 JohnnyHell wrote:
I think anyone with half a brain can figure out rules are per game, but hey, go nuts and claim it means “once in forever ever” if you like...
Pretty sure calling people who play by the rules "half a brain" is considered rude.

You're adding rules where there are none.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 16:53:06


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+++++There are currently ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN (115) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities
Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users.
Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
Made in gb
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Cardiff

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
I think anyone with half a brain can figure out rules are per game, but hey, go nuts and claim it means “once in forever ever” if you like...
Pretty sure calling people who play by the rules "half a brain" is considered rude.

You're adding rules where there are none.


Again, I didn't say what you just posted.

Also, the 40K rules only govern one game at a time. There are no persistent effects or any rules that can be used once in your life. This is the most ludicrous hill you've ever chosen to die on.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 Octopoid wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Please. Are you seriously arguing the RAW means ‘once ever in your life’? We have a new low if so...
The same way people argue whether RaW you subtract 1 from your hit rolls when you move and shoot heavy weapons.

Just because you don't like what the rule says doesn't change what it says. IMHO you are very rude to accuse people who want to play by the rules as "low".


To pull the thread... so who tracks this “once ever in your life”? It’s ludicrous to pretend it makes any sense to use that interpretation, but you do you. And there’s no argument over the Heavy Weapon thing so whatever.

“No, you used the Stratagem a week last Tuesday, that’s it for the rest of your life!”

(Also I didn’t say what you said, nice bonus strawman there)


The problem is, it's not an "interpretation." It's what the rule says. Is it what GW intended? Probably not, because of the aforementioned ludicrousness, but is IS what they SAID. Would I hold someone to that? No. IS it what the rule says? Yes. There's no interpretation to be done here.


If I were playing one of GW's rules writers and I knew they had used the stratagem before, I'd probably hold them to it just to see their reaction and to see how fast it takes for them to FAQ it.
   
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Denver

 doctortom wrote:
 Octopoid wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Please. Are you seriously arguing the RAW means ‘once ever in your life’? We have a new low if so...
The same way people argue whether RaW you subtract 1 from your hit rolls when you move and shoot heavy weapons.

Just because you don't like what the rule says doesn't change what it says. IMHO you are very rude to accuse people who want to play by the rules as "low".


To pull the thread... so who tracks this “once ever in your life”? It’s ludicrous to pretend it makes any sense to use that interpretation, but you do you. And there’s no argument over the Heavy Weapon thing so whatever.

“No, you used the Stratagem a week last Tuesday, that’s it for the rest of your life!”

(Also I didn’t say what you said, nice bonus strawman there)


The problem is, it's not an "interpretation." It's what the rule says. Is it what GW intended? Probably not, because of the aforementioned ludicrousness, but is IS what they SAID. Would I hold someone to that? No. IS it what the rule says? Yes. There's no interpretation to be done here.


If I were playing one of GW's rules writers and I knew they had used the stratagem before, I'd probably hold them to it just to see their reaction and to see how fast it takes for them to FAQ it.


Aww c'mon we all know the rule authors don't actually play the game -- that's how we end up with one time use strategems in the first place!

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