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There is no question that GW is doing things differently now than they used to. Whatever the reasons for it, there is no debate that GW is now more focused on games, instead of trying to be some sort of collectable company.

So, I think there might be an argument for GW to bring back the old world Warhammer; particularity as a specialist game. AoS has had enough time to get its legs, and seems to be doing quite well. So I think the threat of cannibalizing players is low.

Plus, it is a different kind of game. GW has no ranked mass battle game right now (that I am aware of). It can also try and recapture goodwill that was lost by ending it. To my eyes, it seems like they are leaving money on the table by not doing it.

I don't see a downside for this plan. The material, lore, etc, already exists. New rules would be needed, of course. Much of the AoS sculpts are usable, or they can just fire up the machines and use the older sculpts.

No.

The old world never has been gone. It's always been around in computer games, books, rpgs and the older rules. The only difference is it's no longer getting active model and rules releases. Everyone can keep playing there if they choose too.

 Phobos wrote:
There is no question that GW is doing things differently now than they used to. Whatever the reasons for it, there is no debate that GW is now more focused on games, instead of trying to be some sort of collectable company.

They still push the Hobby which includes collecting miniatures - hence Open play in both 40k and AoS - play with what you got. It's the easiest way to play the game: collect the models, which come with rules, and use free rules to roll dice.

 Phobos wrote:
Plus, it is a different kind of game. GW has no ranked mass battle game right now (that I am aware of). It can also try and recapture goodwill that was lost by ending it. To my eyes, it seems like they are leaving money on the table by not doing it.

They were bleeding money before when they were actively supporting it.. To relaunch a mass battles game would cause an even larger amount of cash to be wasted in design, development, sculpting, release, and cause focus to be lost from their core lines.

 Phobos wrote:
I don't see a downside for this plan. The material, lore, etc, already exists. New rules would be needed, of course. Much of the AoS sculpts are usable,

You're right; the lore already exists, and you have two options that are both superior in every way to any edition of Warhammer ever released: Kings of War and The Ninth Age.

 Phobos wrote:
or they can just fire up the machines and use the older sculpts.

Much of the old style does not match the current branding. This is the opposite of what any company would want to do. It would be akin to a car company bringing back a vehicle design from fifteen years ago without changing anything. A 2002 Honda Civic does not match 2018 Honda branding nor look anything like the 2018 lineup and shows its' age compared to the 2018 Civic itself.

As I am really new to Warhammer Fantasy (I only recently picked up 6th, 7th and 8th starter sets off ebay), I can see why they killed it. Don't get me wrong, I feel terrible that I missed out on WFB's peak with 6th edition, and are having a blast exploring the whole world I missed out on. But having become more familiar with LOTR over the years, I see how much GW just completely ripped off that. I think GW needed to really put their own original ideas into their world, and while I am not a fan of Age of Sigmar nor those weird marine knights, I think they are in the proper direction.

That being said, I have grown quite fond of the old WFB sets I have bought and are excited making my armies for 6th, as well as playing different styles of the game with the same minis, but I can see how/why WFB died over time.

Mordheim.

That's the only thing I would want to see of the Old World.

They should have never stopped it. If only they had showed WFB the same love and amount of efforts they did for their games these 3 past years...
They could have exploited all the unknown part of the world (Cathay etc...). But no. They chosed to destroy it and to give us this...thing.

EDIT: ehhh ! I am NO spanish !!! Is it because I am currently in Spain ?

No. As a fantasy setting, the old world was probably a little more grounded and ripe for meaningful storytelling, but it was also limiting. The new world is pretty fantastic from an artistic perspective and while its definitely more gamey, it really lets them create and push themselves as a modeling company. I've long felt that limiting ourselves to the Tolkien asthetic is kind of defeating of the purpose of fantasy. I'm much happier to see them free to get as fantastic as possible.

Should they? Probably not, at least from their perspective. What kind of message does it send to bring the setting back that they blew up? Especially after trying to make Age of Sigmar successful. I have my doubts that they want to include (or even separately stock) square bases. The alternative to that is rewriting the rules to keep using round bases (since base size mattered, you need to revisit at least some things and can't just use the latest rules as is - at least a correction of points costs is required). Who's going to do that? GW proper? They're committed to Age of Sigmar. Leaves specialist games, and they already have limited budget and manpower to work with.

Even from our perspective it's not such a great idea. We know what GW considers canon. Who's excited to explore Ind when the world blows up in five minutes anyway?

No, I think they've managed to poison the well thoroughly on this one.

As Mordheim through specialist games, though? Sure. That's been a historic setting for its entire existence. The End Times and Age of Sigmar have precious little effect on that.

 Phobos wrote:
There is no question that GW is doing things differently now than they used to. Whatever the reasons for it, there is no debate that GW is now more focused on games, instead of trying to be some sort of collectable company.

So, I think there might be an argument for GW to bring back the old world Warhammer; particularity as a specialist game. AoS has had enough time to get its legs, and seems to be doing quite well. So I think the threat of cannibalizing players is low.

Plus, it is a different kind of game. GW has no ranked mass battle game right now (that I am aware of). It can also try and recapture goodwill that was lost by ending it. To my eyes, it seems like they are leaving money on the table by not doing it.

I don't see a downside for this plan. The material, lore, etc, already exists. New rules would be needed, of course. Much of the AoS sculpts are usable, or they can just fire up the machines and use the older sculpts.

Short answer: No.

Longer Answer:

This really isn't feasible, and there are a large number of people that like the new AoS property. It feels a lot less like a rip off of Tolkien, and more like something GW created themselves. I like that.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
No.

Yes. Fight me IRL.

If 30k and 40k can exist simultaneously then there is no reason for AoS and WHFB to not.

 LunarSol wrote:
No. As a fantasy setting, the old world was probably a little more grounded and ripe for meaningful storytelling, but it was also limiting. The new world is pretty fantastic from an artistic perspective and while its definitely more gamey, it really lets them create and push themselves as a modeling company. I've long felt that limiting ourselves to the Tolkien asthetic is kind of defeating of the purpose of fantasy. I'm much happier to see them free to get as fantastic as possible.

I really agree with this statement. I said in another thread that I do not like these fantasy/scifi stories limiting what models and rules for a game can be produced. I care about modeling, painting and playing. I really don't care that much about the lore. It's nifty, but it's really minor in my view and I believe it has long been used to justify certain models and lines from not being created.

I miss the lore and know a lot of other people do too. Bringing it back would not be a bad move.

A couple of other posters have commented that there would be some compatibility issues. Let's be clear: it's the background / story that's missing, not the mechanics. I recognize there's not a lot of demand for games involving large block formations with complex rules around movement.

It's just that the Old World is identifiable and does a number on someone's imagination.

The 'New World' leaves a lot of things out that become problematic when you consider them. For example, why is everyone fighting? What are the economic conditions fueling the need for territorial expansion? What are the people fighting trying to protect - is it really just a clash of good guys versus bad guys? Are there cultural differences between the inhabitants of these realms, or are they faceless, individual monocultures defined only by their fighting forces? Where does the food come from, where are the dead buried, what is the historical moment when this all occurs?

The absence of these things leaves me confused. While I see people enjoying AoS and think it would be a fun game to play, the lack of a compelling story stops me from wanting to buy in. I know that sounds petty, but it's not just about rolling dice and painting models. I could that for less money with other gaming systems and be just as happy.

 ProtoClone wrote:
Mordheim.

That's the only thing I would want to see of the Old World.

greatly enjoyed mordheim

old fantasy was very low fantasy. aos is high fantasy. it gives gw places to go without it being incredibly sameee and grounded. this could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how they handle it but so far i like it.

would of been cool if there was a realm of time where mordheim exists in a frozen or looping state.

I would like it if they did. I do not think it will happen due to retail space and even if they just did mail order, supporting a model line as large as WFB has would be expensive.

My two cents,

CB

A few years back, when AOS came out, I sent GW a lengthy email that said instead of blowing up the old world, they should reboot it.

My plan was:

Warhammer: Time of Legends.

Set around 10 years before Sigmar's birth, it was a small scale skirmish game.

The design ethos was Conan style barbarian tribes, even more savage and feral looking Orcs, Chaos Barbarians, Dwarves making first contact with humans, lone High Elves staying behind guarding sacred sites, early Chaos Dwarves, Vampires migrating north, and hit and run attacks from unknown Elves who liked the colour purple.

The time line would obviously follow what we knew and loved, and the surprise package was the last of the old one's. A fairly weak and inconsequential member of that race, but still hugely powerful to the new warhammer races.

The first major story and campaign would involve grabbing some technology or magic from him or something. He'd be like the dead navigator in the Alien films.

GW would have had their new game and awesome new models, the Old World we all know and love would still be here, fans wouldn't have been alienated, and in my biased view,

I would love to have seen early savage Choas Barbarians that plagued Sigmar's tribe until Sigmar sorted them.

Sadly, my voice was not heeded.

If they want to bring back the Old World, do so with a new version of Warmaster and in an appropriate scale for that type of game (6mm or 10mm scale).

yes, but as pretty much Ghaz said

I would love to read more BL novels set in the Old World. I love the lore. I loved the slowly unfolding mysteries that are now all gone forever. If GW were to create a parallel novelverse where the end times were prevented or postponed, I would read the crap out of that.

As for games themselves, I doubt anything more complicated than a boardgame or possibly Mordheim could ever work in that setting again. The Old World had a flavor that isn't found in AOS (which has its own), and if they can capture that in a board game, I'd be very happy.

Yes, the Old World and AOS feel like different sub genres to me. Old World felt much less high fantasy than AOS. I mean, in Old World the best proof people had that Sigmar was real was a priest performing a feat that seemed crazy. AOS you have a full pantheon with normal folks living in the realms of the gods.

It's the difference in something being set in a Grimm's Fairytale or Greek myth.

 Desubot wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:
Mordheim.

That's the only thing I would want to see of the Old World.

greatly enjoyed mordheim

old fantasy was very low fantasy. aos is high fantasy. it gives gw places to go without it being incredibly sameee and grounded. this could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how they handle it but so far i like it.

would of been cool if there was a realm of time where mordheim exists in a frozen or looping state.

I like the idea of a time-locked island where the great destruction was never able to destroy the warpstone ridden land of Mordheim.

I would also like to see some addition of new, AoS inspired, factions to help breath new life into the game.

 judgedoug wrote:

They were bleeding money before when they were actively supporting it.. To relaunch a mass battles game would cause an even larger amount of cash to be wasted in design, development, sculpting, release, and cause focus to be lost from their core lines.

You have any evidence that top3 seliing miniature game was losing money? Especially when it doesn't account for all gw's expenses.

When aos design was started it was still top3 miniature game. No wonder sales then fell with not much releases when most of model sales comes in first few months.

Probiem was they didn#t sell space marine levels and kirby thinks anything that doesn't sell that much sells badly

WHFB didn't move in our GW at all for years. We had new players but no one was buying new models. They'd just get them 2nd hand.

AOS moves in our GW.

As much as I love ranks and flanks, WHFB had its time. And its done.

What I'd like to see is some rules that support ranks and flanks as an option and there is always the ability to open a realmgate to a time that once was and play your games in the old world if you wish. I don't think GW needs to handhold that. Nothings stopping you from doing it right now.

From a financial perspective, yes they should at some point. If Bloodbowl and Necromunda have been very successful then I really think something in the Old World would sell. However, whether it would sell better than the latest specialist game or AoS release, perhaps not yet at this point. Returning to the old world with new models after a decade might make more of splash than returning now.

Personally, the major draw for the old world is its link to history. I can relate much more to the old world than many fantasy settings because I already have a good idea about daily life, politics, warfare, etc of the renaissance and medieval period. It gives the whole thing much more flavour for me than almost all fantasy out there. I mean, even Lizardmen had an aztec theme whilst I always saw High Elves as being a bit Roman. I do not get that from AoS so have relatively little interest. The moment they start doing, for example, an ancient Greek themed faction then my interest might go up somewhat.

Play Kings of War. It's an approximately 1,000 times better rules system than WHFB ever was.

I still think the problem is that "realms" are inherently boring as a concept compared to actual geography, and have kneecapped a lot of the narrative potential of the AOS setting compared to the old world.

A lot of what GW wanted to add really could have been added with a bit of a time skip and some creative thinking, without making everything all mushy to the extent that most of the fighting doesn't really make any sense any more.

I would very much be in favour of any elegant way for GW to extricate AOS from realms as a concept and go back to a single globe. That would bring back enough of what people loved about the Old World to fix many of the problems I think.

I've seen movement bases on Epic that have circle placeholders and I think they might even be designed for large AOS games, or maybe Hordes or that Warjack game. Not sure if any of them are necessary, but I guess you could make a movement tray of the AOS minis and do a rank and file game with them...

Never playing AOS myself I am not sure if that would be a welcoming thing or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Phazer wrote:
I still think the problem is that "realms" are inherently boring as a concept compared to actual geography, and have kneecapped a lot of the narrative potential of the AOS setting compared to the old world.

I'll agree with this. AOS just seems to abstract for me. I do like the settings of WFB towns and all, with Skaven lurking in the sewers and goblins in the forests.

No.

I would like to see them support Creative Assembly in bringing it back.

I would also like some cheap Legendary Lord packs. My 4 year old son keeps on hasseling me for a Plastic Karl Franz.

I would love to see Mordheim return, but not so much WHF battles. The mordheim ruleset does need to be modernized and revised a bit though. It plays a bit old school, which some people like but i'm not as big a fan.

Forgeworld should do it like the Horus Heresy, Blood Bowl, etc.