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Hi guys,

I know there's a lot of commissioned painters around, posting their service across various sites.
I've commissioned a few paintings via eBay to a single customer over the last year, but when it comes to offering services to generate a bonafide income, what sort of problems are you facing? Is the main focus about reputation, and getting customers to know your name?
Would love to hear what you guys have to say about making commissioned painting into something sustainable!

edit: I forgot to add, for anyone who's sent their mini's to commissioned artists, I'd love to hear your thoughts about what draws you to that particular artist.

Gipsy

Commission painters vary hugely, dependent on situation.
From the professionally run 'Paint Houses' to 'The guy at the store who can paint quite well at the local club' to 'The Golden Demon Standard', pros and cons will also vary.

Yeah I can imagine thats definitely the case, I'm curious as to how these professional 'paint houses' start off, and how they managed to grind their way to that sort of status.

Have you got any experience as a commission painter?

I know nothing about commission painting. My painting skills are so awful its not even funny.

However, I know how service businesses work. Which is what commission painting is. There are 3 ways to compete in service businesses:

1. Reputation. People hire you because they want YOU. So go win golden demons or whatever is popular now; become youtube famous for painting and maybe this can be you.

2. Price. People want the get the most for the least. Have fun competing against Asian sweatshops on this point. You will make more money in less time flipping burgers at McDonalds.

3. Convenience. Yeah maybe you aren't the cheapest, nor the best, but hey I live in east nowhere and I want this done by the weekend. You're my guy!

So pick your path. Good luck, and remember that many a hobby has been ruined by attempting to make money on it.

I've got some experience as a commission painter, I'm definitely under the 'guy at the local club who can paint pretty good' category.

I paint for my friends so I'll list off my own pros and cons.

Pros:
Less stress because I know these people personally and can explain why things are taking so long in detail.
A little more say in what I'm painting e.g "would you rather paint X or Y this week?"
Getting to see what I've worked on in games.
Friends have different armies/games so I can paint things I'd never do for myself.
Payment (not really doing it for the money but it's nice to have a little more to fund my army)
Just getting to paint more.

Cons:
Letting down a friend if it doesn't work out well.
It's awkward asking for money.
My kinda poor time management meaning some things are on a crunch.
Not quite knowing my own limits and taking on too much at once. (stripping models on a deadline sucks)

There's probably a few more on each side but that's my two credits.

about a decade ago I did commission painting, mostly FoW 15mm WW2 stuff, SS company, British Infantry, Soviet infantry.

quality was basic but serviceable, main benefit to me was I enjoyed painting and struggled at the time to fund my addiction... so painting other peoples models paid for my own.

Sadly don't have time these days, found people were more than happy with the quality for "rank and file" models or 15mm, even more so because I had no issues working to match in broad terms colours for the "professional" painted HQ models people had.

Was just for people at the local club though, there is another painter who:

- charged more
- was faster
- paints better, though in a more simplistic way hes a genius with what he does

ya pays ya money etc.

avoided any stress because I was careful what I took on, my main motivation was enjoying painting, secondary was so I had painted armies to actually face off against

I don't have the time, but I work with a guy who does Commissions.

The biggest problems you will have is people will expect 'good' and 'fast'. And those things are not synonymous.

The other issue is that people will send you a box of sprues.

Phobos wrote:
However, I know how service businesses work. Which is what commission painting is. There are 3 ways to compete in service businesses:

1. Reputation. People hire you because they want YOU. So go win golden demons or whatever is popular now; become youtube famous for painting and maybe this can be you.

2. Price. People want the get the most for the least. Have fun competing against Asian sweatshops on this point. You will make more money in less time flipping burgers at McDonalds.

3. Convenience. Yeah maybe you aren't the cheapest, nor the best, but hey I live in east nowhere and I want this done by the weekend. You're my guy!

Fascinating insight, so really it's about attempting to tick off all 3 of those boxes to the best of your ability to be competitive?
Would you say the competition for commission painters is getting fiercer with actual asian sweatshops saturating the market? That sounds pretty nuts haha!

anyname121 wrote:I've got some experience as a commission painter, I'm definitely under the 'guy at the local club who can paint pretty good' category.

I paint for my friends so I'll list off my own pros and cons.

Pros:
Less stress because I know these people personally and can explain why things are taking so long in detail.
A little more say in what I'm painting e.g "would you rather paint X or Y this week?"
Getting to see what I've worked on in games.
Friends have different armies/games so I can paint things I'd never do for myself.
Payment (not really doing it for the money but it's nice to have a little more to fund my army)
Just getting to paint more.

Cons:
Letting down a friend if it doesn't work out well.
It's awkward asking for money.
My kinda poor time management meaning some things are on a crunch.
Not quite knowing my own limits and taking on too much at once. (stripping models on a deadline sucks)

There's probably a few more on each side but that's my two credits.

Great insight dude! It's cool that you get to actually see your painted mini's on tabletop! When I was shipping off weekly orders to one guy who ran a LGS it was a really cool thought to know someone somewhere was using my mini's!

If you ever decided to try and take the painting further, what do you reckon would be the most challenging bit about getting your name out beyond your local store? Although with those kind of positives, I could see why you'd rather focus on what you have now, which is pretty awesome

leopard wrote:about a decade ago I did commission painting, mostly FoW 15mm WW2 stuff, SS company, British Infantry, Soviet infantry.

quality was basic but serviceable, main benefit to me was I enjoyed painting and struggled at the time to fund my addiction... so painting other peoples models paid for my own.

Sadly don't have time these days, found people were more than happy with the quality for "rank and file" models or 15mm, even more so because I had no issues working to match in broad terms colours for the "professional" painted HQ models people had.

Was just for people at the local club though, there is another painter who:

- charged more
- was faster
- paints better, though in a more simplistic way hes a genius with what he does

ya pays ya money etc.

avoided any stress because I was careful what I took on, my main motivation was enjoying painting, secondary was so I had painted armies to actually face off against

Dude that's awesome, I've actually only painted non-warhammer models (maybe 25-30 25mm models in total), so it's kinda awesome to try something new, especially one-off characters
It's definitely a labour of love merging hobbies/business together.

So the competition, even at a LGS level, can be tight even if it's just one other person competing with you for their mini's?

Adeptus Doritos wrote:I don't have the time, but I work with a guy who does Commissions.

The biggest problems you will have is people will expect 'good' and 'fast'. And those things are not synonymous.

The other issue is that people will send you a box of sprues.

Yeah, I can totally get that, someone might want a squad of 30 infantry done in time for tea

I can see how that's a recurrent issue with a lot of painters.. do you think peoples expectation of how much the average commission costs can pose an hurdle for painters?

 GipsyJaeger wrote:

Phobos wrote:
However, I know how service businesses work. Which is what commission painting is. There are 3 ways to compete in service businesses:

1. Reputation. People hire you because they want YOU. So go win golden demons or whatever is popular now; become youtube famous for painting and maybe this can be you.

2. Price. People want the get the most for the least. Have fun competing against Asian sweatshops on this point. You will make more money in less time flipping burgers at McDonalds.

3. Convenience. Yeah maybe you aren't the cheapest, nor the best, but hey I live in east nowhere and I want this done by the weekend. You're my guy!

Fascinating insight, so really it's about attempting to tick off all 3 of those boxes to the best of your ability to be competitive?
Would you say the competition for commission painters is getting fiercer with actual asian sweatshops saturating the market? That sounds pretty nuts haha!

No, its about picking which of the 3 you want to be. They are for the most part mutually exclusive.

 Phobos wrote:

No, its about picking which of the 3 you want to be. They are for the most part mutually exclusive.

That's a tough thing to juggle, how do you personally go about managing that/deciding which path you'd rather focus on?

what sort of problems are you facing? Is the main focus about reputation, and getting customers to know your name?
Would love to hear what you guys have to say about making commissioned painting into something sustainable!

I'll ramble a bit. There was little to no proof reading


Cons:

Obligations and Responsibilities: Time constraints. I only have a few time slots during the week to paint. I just bought my first place, I have overtime at the office, and while living with SO the hobby time seems hard to come by.

Rush Jobs: "Hey I need these few squads of guys for an event next Saturday, I just mailed them to you so you will have a few WEEK NIGHTS to paint them" = I have to pull an all night painting binge or take PTO. Even if I double my normal prices - it's not worth the rush and stress. I find myself and the client wasting money on something that should have been given to me well in advance. Also... drives to meetup at an airport to give models needed for a GT....

Issues with Prep: Clients providing their own models/ebay/recasts. NOPE. Not happening I want to purchase the models or have it new in box or I've given the thumbs up on it.

Deadlines: I've painted nearly every model for a single faction in the game Warmachine for one client. 40-50 Heavy Jacks, multiple gargantuans, and hundreds of infantry. He's a great guy and every month or two he drops off another 30-50 models for me to paint. He doesn't have any timeline for when he needs them finished and he pays me upfront a lower rate since I paint for him all the time. This causes me to have an internal issue with time management. I don't need to get these models finished for months and I've already been paid. As the deadline comes closer - I find myself working on other projects instead of finishing them and mailing them out.

Rates and Friends: I have local players frequently ask me to paint models or armies for a noticeably discounted rate. I oblige normally since I've known them for years. I enjoy it because I get the excuse to work on cool and different projects. Unfortunately this isn't worth the time financially. "Hey paint this squad of Terminators for $XX" might be a 4-5 hour process... or I can just stay a bit late at the office and make the same amount. Rates should be clear and consistent.

Taxes/1099/Income: During college I worked under the table. My SO is an accountant/legal and I am also in a finance field. Over the past few years I've been filing correctly. I highly recommend this for any painters trying to venmo and paypal their way into the this as a field. I make about 10% of my income per year through painting.

Salary/Income: You're doing great if you average $12 usd per hour. You're doing this job for fun and on the side unless you're one of the big few who do this full time (GMM and so on). You're also competing with them. They are more established and can charge more for their work. This means you will need to grind to their level over many years. I've resolved this issue by simply painting for a handful of repeat clients. I just paint most if not all of their armies for an acceptable rate. I roll the money I make from painting into more hobby projects or.... buying all of the forgeworld HH characters... and so on.

I want to change it / he said she said:. Keep all receipts, emails and contracts. I've failed on promises and clients have failed on promises. I've repainted far too many models due to last minute changes of weapon load outs or "too orange" "not pink enough" and so on. Always try and work with people and stay reachable.



Pros



Getting Paid: Doing something you love and getting paid? Much better than shuffling spreadsheets and looking at lines, projections, and numbers all day

Work on cool new projects: I don't want to buy a Dark Eldar army... but I had a blast airbrushing a clients! I learned how to use stencils and a few other techniques that I would not have previously.

People recognize your work + Reputation: This is honestly my favorite part of painting. I've seen some of the armies I've painted on stream and felt a sense of accomplishment. That fun conversion I did on your giant centerpiece? I know it will get some positive comments. Wargamers tend to be much more friendly and enthusiastic when you're playing will fully painted armies. It's an easy way to start conversations and get into the hobby at an event or even a local game night.

Meeting / Working with other Painters: At conventions/events/classes - you get to meet all kinds of other painters. Taking a class and talking with angel giraldez or brandon palmer is a great feeling. Also - bouncing ideas off of other artists and learning new techniques never would have happened if I barely painted. It's great to get into a multi month arguments about Vallejo paints, salt masking vs sponge, or rage stories about airbrushes.

SO/Spouse: You're getting paid to do hobby stuff - they will rarely complain. You're "Working" until 2 am to black wash skaven while watching Predator on a work night.


---

There are obviously pros and cons. I wouldn't recommend it unless you genuinely enjoy the hobby and have the ability to not lose your hobby enthusiasm. I've painted thousands of models over ten years. I have had previous issues with reputation during my early years of college with a drug related friend group and a bad relationship. This affected deadlines and clients. Reparations were paid out but there was quite a bit of stress during those times. I now follow strict rules with commissions and I haven't take a new client in years. I paint for a handful of guys and help two small studios out. I would not consider myself full time.

I did a bit of commission painting a while back, in the "I can paint well and I'm doing it for a friend" category. Guy who runs the local pub didn't have time to paint his stuff, asked me to do it as he'd seen my stuff in the FLGS.

Here's my thoughts on it:

Time. I already had a job, this was done as a "bit of extra cash on the side" thing. If you want to do commissions as your main source of income, you will be busting your balls/ovaries/both(?) simply trying to make minimum wage, even less so when you take supplies into account.

Friends. If you're doing it for online clients you have no connections with, that's much easier than doing it for friends. With friends, it becomes harder to run it as a business without having personal conflicts get in the way. Your friends may say "can you just add a bit extra here? Can I pay you in a little while". You have to remain firm.

Responsibilites. As the guy above me said, you can spend 8 hours on a commission in a single night. When you take other responsibilities into hand however, such as work, social obligations, partners/children, it becomes so much harder to juggle it all and may impact significantly on your wellbeing.


If you want to go into commissions, give it a try. It's a good way to develop your skills while also making connections. Don't however, think "I can paint well, I can make some serious money off this", it's best to start slowly, use it as a bit of extra income. It's a slow progress and to be honest, I'd imagine only a very, very small proportion of commission painters are able to develop a full-time source of income out of it.

Commission painoting is tough to make a living at. My experience is that you're better off doing quantity over quality.

Most gamers looking for some one else to paint their stuff have money. But they don't like to spend it on getting it painted. 2k for an army? No problem. 2k for 10 models? Forget it. Unless you're Jen Haley or something.

I have found that the easiest way to create a sustainable income month after month is to make tutorials. If you're good at painting and can explain what you're doing well, it's much easier and less stressful to release a video every week or two.

This helps me get my stuff painted, let's me feel a little altruistic for helping others, and I don't have to paint anyone else's army or collection.

I tried commission painting for 8 years and honestly, unless you can demand high prices or paint hundreds of models on strict deadlines, it's not really worth it. It's very very difficult to make a steady, solid income every month.

If you can teach, tutorials will be much more fruitful.

If you have that rare talent to paint golden demon quality models, you can do very well alone.

I know someone here in Florida who paid for college by painting and selling models 10 years ago.

 Ghool wrote:
If you can teach, tutorials will be much more fruitful.

How exactly do you monetize the tutorials? Is that through Patreon or accumulating viewers through Youtube?

I've only done commission painting for friends. And my charge was always models that I wanted. Time was always awful (big, 20-30hr projects that I let sit for a while due to various reasons), but they've always been excessively happy with the job once finished. The Nagash I painted for a friend is floating around in the showcase somewhere, and he has it on display in a case in what I'm pretty sure is the dead center of his shop; it's his pride and joy, and everyone who pops into the store looks at it and, I've been told, thinks it's great (blending, shading, dry-brushing, washes, etc, etc). I SHOULD have charged about $200-$300 for 20hrs of work on it. Instead I asked him to just hand over his exalted Slaanesh Chariot in exchange. Again...deals for friends. And he still ribbed on me because I had it in my possession for 2 years before I finished. So...time management is a con. Pro...you get to paint some stuff you'd never own because you don't want it/don't play it/etc.

There is an old saying in the print industry that still holds true today and can certainly be applied here:

Price, Speed, Quality - pick any two of the three.

 MDSW wrote:
There is an old saying in the print industry that still holds true today and can certainly be applied here:

Price, Speed, Quality - pick any two of the three.

100% this!

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Ghool wrote:
If you can teach, tutorials will be much more fruitful.

How exactly do you monetize the tutorials? Is that through Patreon or accumulating viewers through Youtube?

Both.

If you're in an area like me, where there are no ways for you to even enter any contest worth speaking of (ie. Golden Demons), then the likelihood of you being able to command good rates goes down. Way down.
When it costs me $1500 to fly anywhere to even enter a high profile contest, the risk vs. reward is a huge gamble.
I don't have $1500 to gamble with, otherwise I wouldn't be peddling my wares on YouTube and Patreon.

Location and circumstances will factor in to one being able to win awards. While you might have the talent, it may be difficult to raise the funds, and/or justify them for just a chance at a win.

I have some friends, who've paid others to paint and got paid to paint, so here are some of the things I've heard.

Deadlines:
- clients can have ridiculous expectations on what can be done on time, the infamous "can you do this by the weekend, I've got a tourney to attend"
- especially inexperienced painters have time management issues, can't asses how much time certain models take or take on too many jobs

Communication:
- painters not telling their clients that they can't meet the deadlines, clients have to chase after them. In my experience people are okay with new deadlines if a proper reason is given.
- both clients and painters are guilty of not being precise enough in what they want/what they can do/what they will do. As a painter have reference material for various painting stages: basic colors, washes, drybrushing, highlighting. I've witnessed misunderstandings on what "tabletop quality" means and even on what colors they were supposed to use.

I also witnessed misunderstandings who assembles the models. Or people given a bunch of sprues or shoddily glued together models. (Dunno why some people use superglue for plastic models...) Or mold lines not removed.

So my advice would be:
- have reference material for any type of paint job you can make
- don't post only your best paintjobs, but those done under time pressure
- know your capacity and know your skills (what paintjobs you can do reliably, how many models of any given type you can do in a hour)
- communicate with your customers
- be precise what your client wants and what you can deliver, don't make assumptions

Also there is a niche for every type of painter. Some people are okay with just basic colors and a wash, because they want to play with painted models. Some are looking for near Golden Daemon quality. So even if you are not the best painter in the world, but can reliably speedpaint an army, you will find your customers.

 GipsyJaeger wrote:

Yeah, I can totally get that, someone might want a squad of 30 infantry done in time for tea

I can see how that's a recurrent issue with a lot of painters.. do you think peoples expectation of how much the average commission costs can pose an hurdle for painters?

Most people are baffled that a commission can cost as much as the models you hand over. It all depends.

The painter I work with, we work in phases. I'll pay him a certain amount for 'priming and basing' and take them and use them for a bit, then give them back so he can work on them a little more. Sometimes a couple of weeks pass before I can hand them back, sometimes I don't need them back for a few weeks. Either way, I have access to my models when I need them.

It's easier that way. I might be barely tabletop standard for a week or so,or just base-coated models, but it's a lot easier on both of us than handing him a box of crap and expecting a final product in a short amount of time.

Im just going to touch on some points made in this thread...some I agree with, some I disagree.

I started building my clientele by posting things on ebay and saying "I do small commissions." This was when I was in the military still. About six months out, I decided I wanted to paint to bring in my side of the income, so I finally bit the bullet and opened an official studio, baphominiatures.com

I opened it by painting a charity army that did really well and created a big ripple on the internet. I was immediately booked up, then that December I had some 'found' money when I cashed out my TSP and bought a Forgeworld Warlord (full price) and again that charity 'army' did even better, and I was then booked for a year.

Since then Ive never not been booked at least six months out, Im already into 2019 now. I am not the worlds best painter by any stretch. I am an efficient one though, and I am really good with communication, and I manage clients very well. I make enough from painting/sculpting/selling sculpts/some military disability that my wife (an elementary school teacher), myself, and daughter live very comfortably, we just bought our second house and rent the last one where I was stationed. I 'work' about 25-30 hrs a week, I dont count sculpting minis for future releases into that because thats just fun.

I have massive room for growth due to a slowly expanding in house resin production setup, word of mouth, and zero distractions. I can even afford to take time off and do two charity armies a year. The point is that if you take your time and approach things from a realistic point of view, sure, you can paint toy soldiers for a living. If I was single and had one mortgage, I could still live very comfortably doing what Im doing.

I will never win a painting competition, and there are commission studios out there who are levels above me and even have more than one painter. But there is zero sense of competition, because the wargaming community as an economy is WAY bigger than people realize. I think Ive done two local commissions total in the past three years...everything else is international or US based.

Anyway, as for how to do it, I made a similar response in a previous thread so heres just a copy paste:

If you are going to go full time commission, you need

*Painting skills that suit your desired market and pricing
(there are price ranges from bargain basement and $1000+ single model commissions, all are valid). These are consistently produced, easily estimated in terms of hours required/pricing, and makes quoting prices and expected outcome easy. Dont offer above or below what you can produce economically, its a business and you need to establish what your bottom line is.

*Social skills. You can get away with being introverted as a person and still being successful, because a lot/most of the work is conducted via email. But you have to be able to get the info out of a client, sometimes they simply arent sure of what they want, and you ultimately have to take responsibility for 'not knowing' what they expected, and this puts you in the position of having to fix it or have an unhappy client.

*Professionalism. Be on time, update your clients on the schedule if there are changes, be extremely clear and confirm every detail and expectation before work is done. Communicate. There is no 'disappearing' commission painter that is appreciated. Get every detail in writing, and review it with the client before starting. Sometimes its best to do this ad nauseum. You have to be professional 100% of the time, even if sometimes your clients are NOT. Ive encountered this rarely, and I simply dont have time in my schedule the next time they make a work request.

*And one that I had to learn the hard way, learn when to say NO. Last year I took a fall while road cycling and it totally jacked up my right arm, I had to cancel clients. MANY clients wanted to be 'pushed', as in "oh just get to me when you heal." But that meant MORE clients later in the year are now affected because you're moving or canceling them as well. So I made a rookie mistake and figured I would just squeeze in more work, and that created a really uncomfortable situation for me by the end of 2017. The right thing to do was say no, you are canceled and I cant move you. Say no and you may lose the client, you may have an understanding client, but saying yes and overbooking yourself is a good way to burn yourself pretty harsh.

As far as online representation, well, typically the work speaks for itself, yes. Its folly to post something easily interpreted as below standard without a caveat. I personally just dont take commissions any more than are table top basics, its not worth my time. But it would also add some 'degrading' quality to my portfolio and that could be someones first impression.

Successful patreons are successful because their work is of a quality that people aspire to (Ben Komets is one I subscribe to) and their work should speak for itself to the fullest extent of that meaning. Otherwise, Im not sure why you are paying for their knowledge, just as with commissions, you get what you pay for.

Pros extra cash, fairly easy, something I enjoy


Cons gakky customers and those who cant understand the cost. You start to hate what you love lol