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Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






In thi following thread... https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/757112.page#9987621

The grey knights have been overwhelmingly voted worst codex. They have completely disappeared from my flgs. Please email 40kfaq@gwplc.com (faq email Addy) and cc uk.custserv@gwplc.com (customer service) to tell them to fix. Thank you for your help.

"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





You are going to want more content to your email than 'army x is unpowered fix please'

Spamming GW without substance will just lead to them skimming over the GK emails.
   
Made in vn
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Why do they suck? Pls tell me? Is it just points?
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





I don't think grey Knights can be fixed this edition. the kinds of alterations required to fix them will require a complete and total codex re-write as well as some changes to the base game rules. (anything that depowers hoards would be a good start)

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ie
Battleship Captain





A.T. wrote:
You are going to want more content to your email than 'army x is unpowered fix please'

Spamming GW without substance will just lead to them skimming over the GK emails.


I don't know why people still think mass complaining on FAQ and customer service emails will do anything. Complaining about GKs isn't a rules question and its not a sales query so they probably skim over these emails anyway.


 
   
Made in ro
Regular Dakkanaut





 Sim-Life wrote:
A.T. wrote:
You are going to want more content to your email than 'army x is unpowered fix please'

Spamming GW without substance will just lead to them skimming over the GK emails.


I don't know why people still think mass complaining on FAQ and customer service emails will do anything. Complaining about GKs isn't a rules question and its not a sales query so they probably skim over these emails anyway.


I mean, in the FAQ email it makes sense, GW keeps saying for us to send rules feedback to it, but emailing customer service is ??????????


 
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine



Ottawa

 GuardStrider wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
A.T. wrote:
You are going to want more content to your email than 'army x is unpowered fix please'

Spamming GW without substance will just lead to them skimming over the GK emails.


I don't know why people still think mass complaining on FAQ and customer service emails will do anything. Complaining about GKs isn't a rules question and its not a sales query so they probably skim over these emails anyway.


I mean, in the FAQ email it makes sense, GW keeps saying for us to send rules feedback to it, but emailing customer service is ??????????


"GK is the worst codex" isn't feedback - it's just mindlessly complaining. If you can't actually articulate why it missed the mark, then you aren't going to be helping anybody with your email.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






With beta deep-strike rules - they went from one of the worst - to the absolute epitome of trash.

I honestly don't think the beta deep-strike rules are going to make it through - they simply hurt too many armies chance at being competitive.(This is why blanket fixes are bad) Also tripple nerfs are bad too. Hive tyrants went from a great versatile unit to being almost unplayable - just like that.

I enjoyed playing my GK before the big FAQ. I feel the army was in much better shape than space marines for example. It fit my playstyle (table or nothing) very well. They army is completely unplayable now though.


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Xenomancers wrote:
I honestly don't think the beta deep-strike rules are going to make it through - they simply hurt too many armies chance at being competitive
Deepstrike turn 1 assault / rapidfire is a pretty terrible game, on par with the gunline that never moves and the army that never dies. GW would be better off keeping/tweaking the rule and fixing the armies in other ways.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





If turn 1 deep strike comes back we just return to "I hope you army has scouts or nurglings because otherwise you lose".
   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






A.T. wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
I honestly don't think the beta deep-strike rules are going to make it through - they simply hurt too many armies chance at being competitive
Deepstrike turn 1 assault / rapidfire is a pretty terrible game, on par with the gunline that never moves and the army that never dies. GW would be better off keeping/tweaking the rule and fixing the armies in other ways.


Then the grey knights need a massive rework to be useful. All that happens now is I get tabled by turn 3-4 as I can't apply the burst damage I need when I need it where I need it... Which is what grey knights do

"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in ca
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant






A.T. wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
I honestly don't think the beta deep-strike rules are going to make it through - they simply hurt too many armies chance at being competitive
Deepstrike turn 1 assault / rapidfire is a pretty terrible game, on par with the gunline that never moves and the army that never dies. GW would be better off keeping/tweaking the rule and fixing the armies in other ways.


I think it'll stick around. But like GSC there will be exceptions. Probably GK, drop pods and such.

It doesn't really affect me at all(I play Raven guard since the other chapters are pretty bad now), plus my friend just uses a suicide 4 fusion coldstar to move 40" to kill something important sooooo don't really care either way...
   
Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes






Lemondish wrote:
 GuardStrider wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
A.T. wrote:
You are going to want more content to your email than 'army x is unpowered fix please'

Spamming GW without substance will just lead to them skimming over the GK emails.


I don't know why people still think mass complaining on FAQ and customer service emails will do anything. Complaining about GKs isn't a rules question and its not a sales query so they probably skim over these emails anyway.


I mean, in the FAQ email it makes sense, GW keeps saying for us to send rules feedback to it, but emailing customer service is ??????????


"GK is the worst codex" isn't feedback - it's just mindlessly complaining. If you can't actually articulate why it missed the mark, then you aren't going to be helping anybody with your email.


That's actually not true. "GW is the worst codex" is feedback. You might be able to provide more intelligent feedback, but that doesn't negate his/her feedback.

GW asked for our feedback. If we tell them that Grey Knights are the worst army and no one plays them, that's plenty. We don't need to explain to them what is wrong with the army. All they need to know, frankly, is that the army is not being played. That's honestly enough. If an army is not being played than one would think they would get down to working on a strategy to get the army played. Adding explanations for what's wrong and how it can be fixed can be helpful, but it can also be useless. Plenty of experienced players have crappy ideas and don't understand design, or simply have a blatant neglect for the lore.

Just tell GW what the problem is and let them work out the solution.

Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne! 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Points - Overcosted
Grey Knights pay a premium for being Psykers, with access to deep strike, as well as a set of expanded base war gear. Their smite is largely ineffective, 1 mortal wound for a minimum investment of 105 points is not that great. They have 6 total powers - but even if you cast all powers every turn, if you're playing GK, you'll find yourself casting smite, which is generally not worth the risk of perils. The base model has a storm bolter and a power weapon. Storm bolters sound attractive with a rapid fire 2 24" profile, but unfortunately the cost to get this shooting (21 points minimum) is too high. Comparative value across the Imperium, this is not efficient, and requires very close range to be optimal. With only 1 attack (mostly) per model, or very low attack volume in general relative to cost, Grey Knights aren't good in melee. They stand up well in math hammer, but the ultimate challenge with Grey Knights is a total and complete lack of mobility. Despite paying a premium for all of these benefits - psyker, rapid fire, power weapons - they don't have a meaningful way to actually utilize this. Paying for deep strike post nerf is not worth it, especially in an elite army that suffers for bodies.

Further, when you start comparing options for an Imperium-Soup based list, there are better ways to accomplish whatever you might want to achieve with Grey Knights. For instance, volume of shooting dice - this is done better in many other places. Consider a Punisher Russ, Taurox Prime, etc. Meanwhile, their melee attacks (generally -2, D3) at a cost of minimum 105 points - are better handled with other armies that can reliably get into combat (Blood Angels, for example) or just by ignoring the difficulty of achieving melee combat altogether, and bringing something like a Manticore, which is not that much more expensive, but puts out attacks immediately, at a better profile, and can benefit from army synergy.

Finally for durability, in 8th edition it's a simple game of invulnerable saves and wounds. Grey Knights are low on wound count, and don't have invulnerable saves unless you're looking at characters, or a 5++ on terminator armored models. With the Custodes release, you find yourself making a choice between cheaper, more survivable units, that are better in melee, or Grey Knights. Custodes can take a storm shield on one model and have a base 4++, with a higher wound count, than Terminators. They are flatly better than Paladins.

TLDR: Paying for stats you can't use, and any individual use case is handled far better by other soup options, with greater synergy and cheaper.

Mobility & Range - Poor
An army that depends on close range + low medium range has very little in the way of mobility. After they arrive by deep strike, Grey Knights are essentially stranded on the table. One unit can Gate of Infinity per turn, but still requires it be set up 9" away from enemy models. Even if you find yourself in a situation where you could really leverage what GK have to offer, you still have the fundamental problem of getting them there. The unit with the most mobility is interceptors, but they offering nothing beyond standard strike marines with a little extra mobility, to the tune of 125 points. This gets back to the original question of what you want to accomplish, and what the interceptors achieve, because being a fast attack, they don't have a place in GK lists, since you won't be making a GK brigade any time soon, and 3 squads of interceptors to create another detachment runs a minimum of 500 points (125HQ-cheapest, 3*125). 500 points for potentially 60 storm bolter shots, which requires the ability to deep strike, and a total of 15 wounds + HQ. The HQ is Castellan Crowe, who could not keep up with these guys and doesn't offer rerolls anyway.

You can leverage transports, but these are essentially confronted with the same problem as all marine transports. They're either way too expensive, because they're priced with rerolls in mind (Razorbacks), were nerfed due to rerolls (storm ravens), or were flat out bad from the jump (Land Raiders). Ultimately you face the same challenge here: You are paying for stats you can't use if your GK ride in transports. Consider Castellan Crowe (125), a generic HQ (150) and 3 squads of Strike Marines (315). Your investment here is 580 points, and now you need transports. If you bring 2 Rhinos, that puts your cost up over 700 points. What are you accomplishing with this 700+ points? Not a lot. It's nearly half your list for essentially 17 fighting models, that require 12" or melee to be effective. And, you have access to reroll 1's to hit only, should you manage to keep your generic HQ close to both rhinos at time of disembark, and can deep strike within range to apply the rerolls.

People look at GK and assume they will be able to fight their ideal targets, but unfortunately they won't, because their mobility is terrible, and screening units exist.

Psychic Powers - Bad
Rites of Banishment is a huge slap in the face, 1 mortal wound at 12" is comical. It's even more insulting that this is on the Grey Knights librarian. This aside, the rest of their powers are bland and kind of bad. You do get to deal 3 mortal wounds to daemons, but remember not to kill daemons with GK - they'll just come back.

Gate of Infinity - this offers the sole purpose now of offering the potential for a turn 1 charge from deep strike. Although this was always a bad gambit, even when deep strike was freely usable on turn 1. It also allows you to set up models outside of your deployment zone. The use case exists, but again, this can only be applied to 1 unit, so you won't have any protection, or buffs. Further, this is still negated by most armies that have figured out how to apply scout moves and screening units. I give this power 2 out of 5 stars. Up from 1 out of 5 stars, thanks to the beta nerf, which hammers GK hard.

Astral Aim - the best spell in the codex. Unfortunately the platforms to which it can be applied are fundamentally lacking. Before you salivate over the thought of astral aim Godhammer, remember that artillery exists, and doesn't require a psychic babysitter for an overcosted model. In the context of GK, 3/5 stars.

Purge Soul - Kind of hilarious. The chaff you want to smite has decent enough leadership. You'll inflict 3 wounds probably with this bad boy... sometimes. 2/5 stars.

Sanctuary - +1 invulnerable save. This is a great power given that your GMNDK crumbles like a house of cards without it. Too bad it can only be applied to 1 model. 3/5 stars.

Hammerhand - You won't make it to melee with your units in a scenario where they'd need it. 1/5 stars.

Vortex of Doom - One of the worst spells in the game. The cost is astronomical, and people think this is good because they misread it. THey think it hits every unit within 3" of the target unit. NO. It hits units within 3" of the closest target MODEL, meaning you're hitting 1 unit with a crap smite. If you cast it in melee, it hurts yourself. 0/5 stars (can't go lower!)

Finally even though some of these powers are situationally useful, they suffer from the rule of 1, and do not scale to a full force. Further, you can be denied. Let's not forget that *everyone* has psychic powers, and if you want to enhance your army with GK, you can only apply these powers to GK units. So, do you really gain by adding GK, and if so, why? As a standalone force, having access to 5 powers (Vortex doesn't count as a power) means you won't scale to any meaningful game.

Grey Knights would be better if they were cheaper and didn't have access to cast powers at all. Just some HQs can cast, everyone else is just power armored sods, but for less points. I think that says a lot about the current state of their powers.

Stratagems - Bad
Here's what you need to know about GK, should you face them:
They can pay 2 CP to give their bolters +1 str and -1AP.
They can pay 2 CP to give their psychic weapons +1 str and -1AP.
Not to worry, these weapons are bad, and 5 strength and AP-1 doesn't really scare anybody when you consider its range and volume for cost. The worst case scenario is someone deep strikes in 10 strike marines and an HQ for rerolls to shoot 40x Strength 5, AP-1 shots rerolling 1s. But relax, this has to occur from deep strike, because you can't march these guys across the field, so you've already screened against it. And even if you haven't, remember, that's a minimum investment on their part of 360 points, for what amounts to a once-per-game trick. You cant take this punch and counter it easily.

They also have the ability to get 1 extra psychic dice. Do you care? Probably not.
They can give 1 unit +1 invulnerable save, for 2CP. Don't worry, they have to use it at the start of their turn, so you know what not to shoot.

That is the entirety of their stratagems. Nothing to help with their mobility. Nothing to help with the fact that they have no anti-tank. Nothing to help with their inability to get into melee. Nothing to improve their powers. Nothing to improve their smite. Nothing reactionary to what you might do on offense. Nothing to counter daemons the way daemons counter GK.
Ultimately their few stratagems are useful that i detailed above. Should you manage to find yourself in a position where these are useful, you'll have only a precious few command points, so use them wisely.

Awful Characters
They are brutally overcosted, have no flavor, and suffer from all of the issues mentioned above. They have no access to reroll wounds. they have no access to all rerolls except for Draigo, who costs 240 points and has a 5" move. Their cheapest HQ is 125 points, who has no deep strike, 5 wounds, and a chainsword, and offers no rerolls of any kind as a buff. The GMNDK is solid, but they don't offer comparative value to Custode Bike Captains. Bring 3 bike captains for a little more than 1 GMNDK. Remember, he's a T6 4++ who is targetable.

What is the meta?
You can't look at a codex in a vacuum.
The meta in 8th edition is essentially this. You need to either have a beast mode wound count, or a 4++ or better. There isn't much in the way of middle ground. Any scenario where you might ally in GK, there are better choices. And, as a mono-army, GK can't handle what the meta has at its core: Bodies and invulnerable saves.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/05/22 18:14:47


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Smotejob wrote:
Then the grey knights need a massive rework to be useful.
Sounds like a plan.
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




Marmatag- very nicely stated. I don't agree with all of your assessments but I do agree with the gist of your post. It would be great if you sent that to GW. It's not being snarky or putting anyone down it just states facts (albeit as you see them). I'm an old school player and will not play soup so I would like to have my GKs be able to at least make a pretense of a show on the competitive circuit.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Good analysis.

To me, the first thing they obviously need is the ability to cast their powers multiple times per turn. That should be part of Brotherhood (or I guess it might have to be part of the matched play rule, since the limit isn't technically part of the base rules).

Significant defense from Psychic mortal wounds would be next on my list as a kind of global change. Ideally their Terminators need a fix, but I have literally no idea what to do there other than make them Custodes.
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

I actually shot them a note after the assault cannon nerf.

To paraphrase, it was essentially this:

"Hello,

I understand that the cost of assault cannons is increasing. I believe this is because of Razorbacks, and Storm Ravens over performing.

However, this performance is generally in the context of lists with access to hit & wound rerolls. For instance, Roboute Guilliman and the Ultramarines are where these vehicles are seen in tournaments.

Grey Knights armies also depend on these vehicles, but don't have the same access to rerolls as other armies. Is there going to be a quid-pro-quo kind of balance change for Grey Knights? Because this army was made worse by the recent change, yet is already chronically under represented.

Best,
me"

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




They have Interceptors and Grandmaster Dreadknights, and then the ever mediocre Strike Squads and Paladins. That's about all they got and then they have horribly overcosted Strategems. Psybolts is an insult to Grey Knights players.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Eastern Fringe

The snake is chewing on its own tail.

A poll appears on Dakka (A place where an tiny minority of people interested in 40k post) A tiny minority of those people, vote in that poll. Then a thread is made claiming that the result of that poll is somehow conclusive evidence that something is a certain way. No.

The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed. 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






They also have teleporting landraiders and psylancer purgators shooting without los. Sure, they need psy powers for it but with +1 to cast the odds are pretty good.
Not sayinv gk are top tier but they're definitely not abysmal. Pretty good in regular games.
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




So, Hollow, who do you feel has the worst codex army and why?

If you go to the London GT List thread you will find that there were 3 GK armies they finished 236, 259 and, 352 out of a field of 365 armies. That does not speak well of the codex either from an army selection stand point or a competitive rating stand point. Granted it's only 1 event but when you look at the numbers overall then it is pretty consistent in both selection and competitiveness.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

If you Gate of Infinity a Land Raider out of combat, can it still shoot? (I suppose so because it didn't fall back but this is hilarious).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 19:10:14


 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 Unit1126PLL wrote:
If you Gate of Infinity a Land Raider out of combat, can it still shoot? (I suppose so because it didn't fall back but this is hilarious).


Yes, but to do that you'd have to be taking a Land Raider.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
If you Gate of Infinity a Land Raider out of combat, can it still shoot? (I suppose so because it didn't fall back but this is hilarious).


Yes, but to do that you'd have to be taking a Land Raider.


Right yes I was having a giggle not suggesting it as a strategy.
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




I have a redeemer that doesn't get used anymore. It would be great if the flamers could fire in overwatch regardless of how far the enemy started and would be even more fun if they could be fired into melee if the user is the only friendly model involved (please note that I used "model" not "unit").

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 19:15:47


 
   
Made in gb
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Eastern Fringe

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
So, Hollow, who do you feel has the worst codex army and why? .


I don't think in this way. The idea that there is a "worst" codex smacks of juvinelieve, simplistic reasoning devoid of nuance or understanding. It's like asking which is worse out of the rock, paper or scissors. It's situational. Everything about it is situational. I have seen GK beat most other factions in person and you can see them do well v multiple other factions online in dozens of batreps. Using the most recent GT results from London is sooooo silly it actually makes my head hurt. The game is situational. It's why keyboard warrior's crying continually about balance drives me up the wall... mainly because they don't seem to have a grasp for what they are complaining about or what they are asking for. Currently, all factions can build lists to beat all other factions. GK can beat all other factions, but it is situational.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 19:19:11


The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed. 
   
Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes






 Hollow wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
So, Hollow, who do you feel has the worst codex army and why? .


I don't think in this way. The idea that there is a "worst" codex smacks of juvinelieve, simplistic reasoning devoid of nuance or understanding. It's like asking which is worse out of the rock, paper or scissors. It's situational. Everything about it is situational. I have seen GK beat most other factions in person and you can see them do well v multiple other factions online in dozens of batreps. Using the most recent GT results from London is sooooo silly it actually makes my head hurt. The game is situational. It's why keyboard warrior's crying continually about balance drives me up the wall... mainly because they don't seem to have a grasp for what they are complaining about or what they are asking for. Currently, all factions can build lists to beat all other factions. GK can beat all other factions, but it is situational.


What do you have to say regarding Marmatag's analysis? Exaggeration?

Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne! 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Marmatag wrote:
I actually shot them a note after the assault cannon nerf.

To paraphrase, it was essentially this:

"Hello,

I understand that the cost of assault cannons is increasing. I believe this is because of Razorbacks, and Storm Ravens over performing.

However, this performance is generally in the context of lists with access to hit & wound rerolls. For instance, Roboute Guilliman and the Ultramarines are where these vehicles are seen in tournaments.

Grey Knights armies also depend on these vehicles, but don't have the same access to rerolls as other armies. Is there going to be a quid-pro-quo kind of balance change for Grey Knights? Because this army was made worse by the recent change, yet is already chronically under represented.

Best,
me"

Well - its a good guess as to why they increased the cost. You'd really expect though that with Guilli costing 360 points - his own cost justified the cost of the rerolls. They still felt a futher need to increase his cost an additional 40 points even after every unit he was used to buff got increased as well.

I have a theory about whats going on right now at GW. They have a boner for jetbikes (thats about as far as I got).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kharneth wrote:
 Hollow wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
So, Hollow, who do you feel has the worst codex army and why? .


I don't think in this way. The idea that there is a "worst" codex smacks of juvinelieve, simplistic reasoning devoid of nuance or understanding. It's like asking which is worse out of the rock, paper or scissors. It's situational. Everything about it is situational. I have seen GK beat most other factions in person and you can see them do well v multiple other factions online in dozens of batreps. Using the most recent GT results from London is sooooo silly it actually makes my head hurt. The game is situational. It's why keyboard warrior's crying continually about balance drives me up the wall... mainly because they don't seem to have a grasp for what they are complaining about or what they are asking for. Currently, all factions can build lists to beat all other factions. GK can beat all other factions, but it is situational.


What do you have to say regarding Marmatag's analysis? Exaggeration?

It's 100% on point.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 19:29:45


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Marmatag wrote:
Points - Overcosted
A lot of content, but as a designer feel i'd zone out before I hit the half way mark.

The (hopefully constructive) point being that nobody at GW is going to want to read through that to try and figure out what you are making a good argument for being bad, and what is just bad because everything is bad.
   
 
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