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The text reads:
"Defend objective X
Score 2 victory points if you control objective marker X at the end of two consecutive turns."

So lets say it is turn 3 and i am sitting on objective 5 since turn 2 and draw "defend objective 5". can i immediately score at the end of my turn, or do i have to control the objectiv for two turns after drawing the card?

 Riddip wrote:
The text reads:
"Defend objective X
Score 2 victory points if you control objective marker X at the end of two consecutive turns."

So lets say it is turn 3 and i am sitting on objective 5 since turn 2 and draw "defend objective 5". can i immediately score at the end of my turn, or do i have to control the objectiv for two turns after drawing the card?

IMHO, you don't retroactively score tactical objectives (unless it says so on the card like kingslayer), otherwise the retroactive clause on Kingslayer would not be needed. You have to defend it for two turns AFTER you draw the card.

However, I will agree it's not clear. The only thing in the rulebook is that you check at the end of each turn. This is one that could use an FAQ for sure.

To further elaborate, the objective says "Score 2 victory points if you control objective marker X at the end of two consecutive turns." Notice how it says Control, not Controlled. That means even though you controlled it in previous turns, the objective only cares if you control it after the objective is drawn at the end of two consecutive turns.

NO

 Kilgore19d wrote:
NO

Do you have evidence for that? BCB did, but your flat no is not the most helpful.

Agree with no. There are cards that let you score them retrospectively and they say so explicitly.

Oh, I should probably point out I do agree with the "No" answers as well.

You don't retroactively score unless it says you do, like Kingslayer, as BCB pointed out.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Kilgore19d wrote:
NO

Do you have evidence for that? BCB did, but your flat no is not the most helpful.

Thank you. I strive to provide rules citations when I answer questions. It's one of the benefits of being a RaW purist, you can actually cite rules.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Kilgore19d wrote:
NO

Do you have evidence for that? BCB did, but your flat no is not the most helpful.

As pointed out, Kingslayer is the only one that specifically says that. Anything else is a stretch for interpretation of the rules. There is no ambiguity, there is no lack of clarity. This question is a stretch of the imagination, and I felt it didn't warrant anything beyond stating, "No".

You see, I would actually say "yes". Kingslayer allows the retroactive scoring simply because of its wording, but "this" turn is simply whatever turn it is:

"Score D3 victory points if your opponent's Warlord has been destroyed during this or any previous turn."

If the "this" in Kingslayer only meant the turn you drew it, then Kingslayer would be unscoreable and have to be discarded if you failed to accomplish it during your own turn, even if you then accomplished it during your opponent's turn. The rider of "any previous turn" is just a way for them to allow a player to score points on an already dead Warlord. Ergo, the "this" in Kingslayer is just asking that you check the current turn's status of that objective, and not the turn that you drew the card.

"at the end of two consecutive rounds" doesn't give us a starting point, it just asks that an objective marker has been held for two consecutive rounds, which could be the case the turn you drew it. It checks the current turn's status of that objective, and not the turn that you drew the card.

Indeed, strictly "yes"
I dislike yes as there is some book keeping needed, but I see no reason why this isn't possible.

The timer for the card only starts once you draw the card.
Basically, command is telling your dudes to "keep holding it just a bit longer"

 iGuy91 wrote:
The timer for the card only starts once you draw the card.
Basically, command is telling your dudes to "keep holding it just a bit longer"

While that totally makes fluff-sense, and may indeed be how GW intends it (I really can't say), I don't believe that the wording presented on the card supports that. I think that for this to be the case, it would have to say "Hold objective X for two consecutive turns, starting with the turn you drew this card."

 iGuy91 wrote:
The timer for the card only starts once you draw the card.
Basically, command is telling your dudes to "keep holding it just a bit longer"

Except the card doesn't say anything approaching that
If you've held objective 1 since player turn 2 of round 1, then st the end of player turn one of round 2 you HAVE held it for 2 consecutive turns. You just haven't done so since drawing the card, which isn't a stated requirement.

BCBs only actual analysis makes a leap unsupported by the way the card is written. In fact, using their logic, you could never score because of the "control" tense issue they're using to support the idea it cannot operate from before the card was drawn. Except nowhere does it say that

And, their only support is kingslayer, which must have a retrospective clause allowing it to be scored any time the warlord is dead, purely because of how they worded the initial part of the scoring condition. They could easily have worded it differently to not need such a clause and for it to still work at any time the condition has been fulfilled.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
The timer for the card only starts once you draw the card.
Basically, command is telling your dudes to "keep holding it just a bit longer"

Except the card doesn't say anything approaching that
If you've held objective 1 since player turn 2 of round 1, then st the end of player turn one of round 2 you HAVE held it for 2 consecutive turns. You just haven't done so since drawing the card, which isn't a stated requirement.

Except the objective wasn't generated, so it can't see back in the past.

If I didn't know better I'd say you're taking this stance because I am supporting the opposite. I agree it's not the clearest, but Kingslayer provides the proof that you need explicit permission to be retroactive.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
The timer for the card only starts once you draw the card.
Basically, command is telling your dudes to "keep holding it just a bit longer"

Except the card doesn't say anything approaching that
If you've held objective 1 since player turn 2 of round 1, then st the end of player turn one of round 2 you HAVE held it for 2 consecutive turns. You just haven't done so since drawing the card, which isn't a stated requirement.

Except the objective wasn't generated, so it can't see back in the past. Kingslayer proves that you need explicit permission to be retroactive.

If I didn't know better I'd say you're taking this stance because I am supporting the opposite.

Then you haven't read any other threads, where I've supported your stance. I'm not making a icntrary stance - far too many posts to be bothered about newbies.

The objective can't see back in the past? What, exactly, does that mean? The objective cards don't "see" anything. They just have a condition and a time to check the condition: if you fulfil the condition at the stated time, you score. The stated time is at the end of the turn, and the condition is to hold it for two consecutive turns. It does not require this to be from when the card was generated, so scoring the turn you pick it up is allowed by the wording

I've already shown how your "proof" is nothing but - Yarium did it first. It's also yet another fallacy to extrapolate from one unrelated data point (the card isn't worded anything like the same as defend, so it's mostly irrelevant and doesn't help you in any way shape or form) and apply that to all, based on no actual rules.

Also, a reminder for the Defends; it's 2 consecutive turns, not 2 consecutive turns of yours.

Yours and your opponents', then it's done.

Do we have to repeat this discussion every few months? Consensus is that you can only start scoring a card after is has been drawn, unless it states otherwise. That’s how absolutely everyone plays it, so it’s fairly irrelevant to discuss anything else, no?

I'm just stating the rule doesn't say that - and GW hasn't given any hints as kingslayers from 7th and wasn't reworded

nosferatu1001 wrote:
I'm just stating the rule doesn't say that - and GW hasn't given any hints as kingslayers from 7th and wasn't reworded

"It doesn't say I can't" is not an argument.

That isn't my argument, and you know it isn't. Argue honestly

The rule has a condition and a time to check that condition. I have, demonstrably, met the condition at the relevant time. I score

Prove I cannot. Citation needed. We've a,ready pointed out that king slayer fails to provide the proof you think it does.

You know it's impossible to prove a negative.

But to your point if you are correct then you are going to have to keep track of every objective for who controlled it with what unit(s) and when. Because by your logic if I have a troop unit next to objective B for my turn 2 and your turn 3 when I draw the card on Turn 4 I've already completed that mission.

I don't see how that's the case. Secure Objective X cards just say to control a certain objective at the end of your turn. It checks the current turn's status of that objective, and not the turn that you drew the card. In that turn, you either controlled it or didn't, so you score it or don't. To me, this wording is very clear. Either you held it for two consecutive turns, or you didn't, but check the turn you drew the card never factors into it. It's a simple "True/False" question.

The rules, as stated many times, only tell you what is allowed, not what isn't allowed. You're saying that checking "two consecutive turns" only starts the same turn you drew Defend Objective X, so the burden of proof is on you to prove that to be the case, which I haven't seen anything in this thread that says otherwise.

Per Generating Tactical Objectives, Tactical Objectives that have been generated are said to be active until they are either achieved or discarded.

Per Achieving Tactical Objectives, At the end of every turn (yours and the enemy's), you must check to see if you have achieved any of your active Tactical Objectives.

Looking into the past before an objective is active is not mentioned in the general rules. Only Kingslayer tells you to look at previous turns.

You need to control the objective for two consecutive turns while it is active to achieve the objective.

Your conclusion does not follow either rule, so your conclusion is flawed.

Now where in either rule does it say to look to see when the condition to be achieved was counted from

The tactical objective is indeed active, its condition is met. Prove I cannot score it. Alex you cannot do so. As pointed out kingslayers own wording requires a consideration of previous turns due to how they worded the initial condition.

Leo - I don't say it's sensible, I even pointed that out. But the rule is absolutely in my favour here - turn two I've held objective 1 since deployment, I have ABSOLUTELY and UNDENIABLY met the conditions necessary to score the obj3ctive card.

Round 2- I control Obj 6
Round 3- I control Obj 6
Round 4- I lose control of Obj 6
Round 5- I draw Tac Obj card for Obj 6

Do I score that card ?

Fragile wrote:
Round 2- I control Obj 6
Round 3- I control Obj 6
Round 4- I lose control of Obj 6
Round 5- I draw Tac Obj card for Obj 6

Do I score that card ?

No.

"Defend objective X
Score 2 victory points if you control objective marker X at the end of two consecutive turns."

Is this the end of two consecutive rounds? No. Therefore you do not score it.

EDIT: Note the END of two consecutive rounds. At the end of Turn 5, in your example, you are not in control of it at the end of that turn, and so cannot score it, despite having held it for two consecutive turns during the game.

But I did control the objective at the end of 2 consecutive turns. If the card can look back in time why can I not score it?

I don't think the objectives are conditions to check. I think they are instructions to be performed, based on the way they are written. As such, they can't be scored based on turns before they are drawn unless they say so.

Fragile wrote:But I did control the objective at the end of 2 consecutive turns. If the card can look back in time why can I not score it?

Because it is not now the end of two consecutive turns. It checks the current turn's status of that objective. You may have held the objective for two consecutive turns previously, but it is not (currently) the end of those two consecutive turns, which is when this is scored (as per the card's text).

Drager wrote:I don't think the objectives are conditions to check. I think they are instructions to be performed, based on the way they are written. As such, they can't be scored based on turns before they are drawn unless they say so.

While I think that's a great way to view it (and, with the exception of the disagreement of this particular objective, would function equally well), the rulebook actually notes them as something to be checked. "At the end of every turn (yours and the enemy's), you must check to see if you have achieved any of your active Tactical Objectives" (blah, blah, blah). As such, it does seem to be a condition that the status of is checked. If the condition is true, you score the points, and if it isn't, you don't.

 Yarium wrote:
While I think that's a great way to view it (and, with the exception of the disagreement of this particular objective, would function equally well), the rulebook actually notes them as something to be checked. "At the end of every turn (yours and the enemy's), you must check to see if you have achieved any of your active Tactical Objectives" (blah, blah, blah). As such, it does seem to be a condition that the status of is checked. If the condition is true, you score the points, and if it isn't, you don't.

Unfortunately, the wording of the card does not preclude fulfillment of the condition in the past. Even by your own standard (underlined by me). If you do as you say, you check to see if the objective has been controlled for you for 2 turns/rounds, whichever. If you have previously done so then the condition has been completed. Nowhere on the card or in the rules does it say when the condition has to be fulfilled or when the timing for fulfillment begins. All it says is if condition X has been met then you get VPs there are no time limitations on meeting that condition.

RAI I agree with most of the posters that the timing should start upon drawing the card. RAW there is no time limitation so scoring can occur due to past actions.