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Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

So, Dakka, I've noticed in a LOT of listbuilding, that people are using Lords of War as a substitute for an army, rather than the accent piece I believe they should be. 1500 points of a 2k army sunk into 3 superheavies in my mind, isn't really a list.

For example, Necrons running 3 Tesseract Arks, Tau running 3 Ghostkeels, IG running 3 Baneblade equivalents, you get the idea. Lets face it. Its dreadfully boring, and just screams TFG to me.

I think that honestly, the super heavy detachment should be scrapped, and the Super Heavy Auxiliary Detatchment should be limit 1 for all armies.

Now, that removes knights as an army. I'd suggest the knights be reclassified into actual (Elite/Heavy Support/Troop Armigers) to allow this to take place, instead of the whole army being "SuperHeavies". I think it will provide more variety back to the table.

Yes? No? Let me know your thoughts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/23 16:13:37


Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

I would like to see only 1 detachment for LoWs, but I would combine the current 2 as such:
1-3 LoW + 3CPs if the detachment is full. It essentially achieves what both detachments currently do, but limits it to 3 max.
Maybe...MAYBE make it be a 1 per army detachment. But I really don't see what the goal of your change is.

If someone brings 3 Tessaract Vaults or similar, 1 of 2 things is happening:
1) you are in a tourney in which you cannot choose you opponent. If this is the case, good luck to them as low model count armies kinda suck in competitive play right now.
2) it is a friendly game, in which you can either decline to play them, or request that they swap out 1-2 LoWs for other units to make it fit "your" criteria of a real army.

Another option that may be simpler would be to make LoW datasheets 1 per army. So you could take multiple LoW, but no duplicates.

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/23 17:21:12


   
Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes






Booo... no fun.

They intentionally added the detachment so you could use an army of LoWs.

Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne! 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 iGuy91 wrote:
So, Dakka, I've noticed in a LOT of listbuilding, that people are using Lords of War as a substitute for an army, rather than the accent piece I believe they should be. 1500 points of a 2k army sunk into 3 superheavies in my mind, isn't really a list.

For example, Necrons running 3 Tesseract Arks, Tau running 3 Ghostkeels, IG running 3 Baneblade equivalents, you get the idea. Lets face it. Its dreadfully boring, and just screams TFG to me.

I think that honestly, the super heavy detachment should be scrapped, and the Super Heavy Auxiliary Detatchment should be limit 1 for all armies.

Now, that removes knights as an army. I'd suggest the knights be reclassified into actual (Elite/Heavy Support/Troop Armigers) to allow this to take place, instead of the whole army being "SuperHeavies". I think it will provide more variety back to the table.

Yes? No? Let me know your thoughts.


Two Things:

1) Ghostkeels aren't Lords of War. They're Elites. Did you mean Stormsurges?

2) Some Lords of War are good. I don't think any are BROKENLY good, however. Even Baneblades-if you can't handle a Baneblade, could you handle the same amount of points in Leman Russes? If there ARE Lords of War that are busted, fix them. Don't apply a blanket ban.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

 JNAProductions wrote:
 iGuy91 wrote:
So, Dakka, I've noticed in a LOT of listbuilding, that people are using Lords of War as a substitute for an army, rather than the accent piece I believe they should be. 1500 points of a 2k army sunk into 3 superheavies in my mind, isn't really a list.

For example, Necrons running 3 Tesseract Arks, Tau running 3 Ghostkeels, IG running 3 Baneblade equivalents, you get the idea. Lets face it. Its dreadfully boring, and just screams TFG to me.

I think that honestly, the super heavy detachment should be scrapped, and the Super Heavy Auxiliary Detatchment should be limit 1 for all armies.

Now, that removes knights as an army. I'd suggest the knights be reclassified into actual (Elite/Heavy Support/Troop Armigers) to allow this to take place, instead of the whole army being "SuperHeavies". I think it will provide more variety back to the table.

Yes? No? Let me know your thoughts.


Two Things:

1) Ghostkeels aren't Lords of War. They're Elites. Did you mean Stormsurges?

2) Some Lords of War are good. I don't think any are BROKENLY good, however. Even Baneblades-if you can't handle a Baneblade, could you handle the same amount of points in Leman Russes? If there ARE Lords of War that are busted, fix them. Don't apply a blanket ban.



1. I did mean Stormsurges, thank you for the clarification.

2. Dunno, but it feels fairly abusive to me. It does not meet my criteria for what I'd consider fun. Yeah I get tournaments are no-holds barred, but still. These kind of things...are lists in name only, they require no imagination to build or play.

Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




It doesn't matter what YOU consider to be fun. We are talking strictly about balance. Does your proposed rule help with any balance issues?

The answer is no.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Few LOW armiea are actually able to place high in tournaments as they usually have to chase the other players plan, having 75% of your points in 3 models usually make your opponents target priority and board control decisions significantly easier, the only issue is if the opponent can't protect their anti high toughness multiwound damage dealer's.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 18:49:39


 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Might as well limit Elites to 1 as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 22:38:41


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Norway.

There should at least be a maximum of one Primarch..

-Wibe. 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

I think it would greatly help if GW had defined some “levels of engagement” far better than their current “throw everything on the table and go for it”.

We have some definition - Kill Team vs. the current game and the old Apocalypse rules, but if the data sheets had something akin to power rating, it would be easier to define the game you want.

I’d like to see about 4 levels myself:

Kill-team: one or two squads of troops, at most one elite infantry unit. No vehicles. No named unique characters. Games about 200 pats or so.

Engaged: two to four squads, fast attack no bigger than bikes, one to one-and-a-half elite units. At most one vehicle per side. No more than one non-monstrous unique character. Games about 1000 points or so.

Eternal War: the lovable FOC from previous edition. Games about 1500 points.

Apocalypse: 8E’s detachment system. Games of 2000 points or more.

It never ends well 
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




A limit of 1 LOW would improve the game. The more restrictions GW makes to lessen the spectrum of the meta, the more games are decided by what you do on the battlefield, as opposed to what list you have vs what list your opponents have.

Ofcourse, they already took a step in the other direction with IK. Imagine you field a balanced list with some stuff to target hordes and some to target big things. Then you face armies with nothing but LOWs or titants, and your boltguns are now more or less useless -the moment they move out and shoot, they’re gone. For balanced lists that is probably around 1/3 of your army. And we all know it isnt fun running around hiding, trying to win by VPs alone.

But again, GW has decided on the opposite. The increase of CPs for battalions was a great improvement for the same reason as mentioned above.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/11 19:40:13


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





This is why bolt guns need SLAP ammo options

Saboted light armor piercing.

-3 AP.

Added points cost

Only 1 damage.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

warpedpig wrote:
This is why bolt guns need SLAP ammo options

Saboted light armor piercing.

-3 AP.

Added points cost

Only 1 damage.


And Thousand Sons get -5 AP, then?
Sternguard the same?
Intercessors -4? Deathwatch Intercessors getting up to -6?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
 
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