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Longtime Dakkanaut





General question: how does the worlds modern military tech/soldiers stack up against those from 40k?

Personally I think a modern us or Russian or Chinese soldier would be more than a match for any infantry the ig can bring to bear, basically the equivalent of tempestus. Though they’d start to have trouble against bigger targets (m16 being the classic autogun) they do have access to better equipment, for example both Russians and the us have stockpiles of semi and full auto rifles in full rifle calibers with ap ammunition. Probably the equivalent of hotshot lasguns. But overall better training (because hey we don’t have a tyrranid fleet over us)

In terms of main battle tank, despite the look the Abrams/leopard2/chally2 all have the same caliber of gun as the lrbt 120 smoothbore , and what’s more the vanquishers description sounds super similar to our modern version. Armor wise I don’t know much about the russ but outside of the Abrams most mbt have active protection systems designed to stop missiles

Overall I’d say we actually have better equipment and tactics than the imperium at large. Maybe even space marines. The same I think can be said for most scifi and fantasy worlds because most writers simply do not fully comprehend the full breadth of the power of modern weapons nor are they trained in tactics.

Also let’s not forget things in 40k that are near direct ports from our world

Heavy stubbed = mg34 or equivalent
Missile launcher = at4
Autocannon = 20-25mm auto cannon
Predator autocannon = mk44 bushmaster ii

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/06/01 12:19:46


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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Almost certainly a negative. You're making the mistake of thinking that a modern AP ammo is the same this as "this gun would have an AP modifier", which isn't necessarily the case. A lasgun in the game may be a pitifully weak weapon, but in real-world terms it likely is more potent than any conventional rifle existing in the world today. On top of that, the lasgun is of far tougher make (pretty much never jams, can be used as a club and still works afterwards, works after dirt and grim and mud, works in freezing cold and boiling heat), and doesn't require nearly the same amount of logistical support. The humble lasgun is, indeed, a mighty weapon. It's just that in a game of 40k, it's laughably bad, because everything else in that universe is dialled up to 11, and the had the knob ripped off because you'd need to bring it over 9000 to properly define it.

Against an average Astra Militarum force, our only advantage would be the familiarity of the terrain, allowing us to engage in guerrilla warfare, and hope to steal some of their stuff. But in a conventional battle, the Astra Militarum would mop the floor with us. Their aerial superiority would devastate the air force and navies of any nation in the world. And god help us if the Space Marines got involved. At very best, our most powerful conventional tank-based weapons would be the equivalent of 1-shot Autocannons. At worst, we might as well be grots.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/01 12:26:10


 Galef wrote:
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Except here’s where your wrong about the lasgun, the lasgun and autogun are give precisely the same stats. The auto guy is quite literally just an assault rifle. Sure the lasgun has logistical advantages but in terms of damage gw has decreed in various rule sets they are roughly equivalent

As for our tank guns being 1 shot autocannon that’s also wrong because our autocannons are their autocannons

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/01 12:31:13


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If I remember rightly the Imperium has autoguns which are basically our weaponry +1 and they're the low quality junk to hand out to frontiers and third wave members of the PDF which is another way of saying you give it to Tim whose job is literally to take as long as possible to die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
gendoikari87 wrote:
Except here’s where your wrong about the lasgun, the lasgun and autogun are give precisely the same stats. The auto guy is quite literally just an assault rifle. Sure the lasgun has logistical advantages but in terms of damage gw has decreed in various rule sets they are roughly equivalent

Game stats do not equal lore.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/01 12:31:27


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pm713 wrote:
If I remember rightly the Imperium has autoguns which are basically our weaponry +1 and they're the low quality junk to hand out to frontiers and third wave members of the PDF which is another way of saying you give it to Tim whose job is literally to take as long as possible to die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
gendoikari87 wrote:
Except here’s where your wrong about the lasgun, the lasgun and autogun are give precisely the same stats. The auto guy is quite literally just an assault rifle. Sure the lasgun has logistical advantages but in terms of damage gw has decreed in various rule sets they are roughly equivalent

Game stats do not equal lore.


The only difference is autoguns use caseless ammunition. A g11 basically. Which is no more or less powerful than 5.56


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And unfortunately you can’t just say “well their projectile tech is superior” because here’s a hard limit scientifically speaking with chemical projectile weapons that we hit about 30-40 years ago.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/01 12:35:05


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Made in gb
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gendoikari87 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
If I remember rightly the Imperium has autoguns which are basically our weaponry +1 and they're the low quality junk to hand out to frontiers and third wave members of the PDF which is another way of saying you give it to Tim whose job is literally to take as long as possible to die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
gendoikari87 wrote:
Except here’s where your wrong about the lasgun, the lasgun and autogun are give precisely the same stats. The auto guy is quite literally just an assault rifle. Sure the lasgun has logistical advantages but in terms of damage gw has decreed in various rule sets they are roughly equivalent

Game stats do not equal lore.


The only difference is autoguns use caseless ammunition. A g11 basically. Which is no more or less powerful than 5.56


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And unfortunately you can’t just say “well their projectile tech is superior” because here’s a hard limit scientifically speaking with chemical projectile weapons that we hit about 30-40 years ago.

When a civilisation has technology that ignores science that argument isn't very good. The Imperiums main method of travel is making a bubble of reality around a ship and entering what is basically hell.

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True but that’s what we have to go on and as said before we have direct ports from irl to the imperium to compare

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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





That "hard limit" is defined by material science. The Imperium surpassed that hard limit literal millennia ago. Sure they may understand how they surpassed it, but they have Plasteel and Ceramite, which as "magic" Steel and "magic" concrete/ceramic compared to our current material sciences. As such, it's practically impossible to say for sure what their upper limit on projectile speed and explosive force is, but we can be confident that it's "better than ours". If I was the Game Theory team, I'd try to gauge Plasteel and Ceramite's strengths versus our current building materials by looking at the 40k universe's architectural feats (which are insane from a structural engineering perspective), and plot the relative material strengths onto a graph for a rough approximation of these weapons' ability to handle the forces placed on them. If they are significantly higher than today's current materials tech, then we could safely assume that even the Autogun is a superior weapon to today's rifles. Considering there are Hive Cities built like mountains, the strengths of these materials are sufficiently "nutso" that I am 99% confident such an analysis would put an autogun's possible strength at the scientific level of "stupidly powerful".

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I think the point is that due to the Imperium's massively stretched resources, a standard Guardsman is completely equivalent to a standard modern soldier. I don't see a lasgun or autogun as being any different to a high quality modern weapon.

The only issue is the massive freakin' spaceship that brought them to the planet, and the fact that the Imperium has so many men, they can subjugate entire planets.

It's all completely unrealistic of course. See how hard it is to control a small region of a planet like Iraq or Afghanistan without the native populace going to ground and dragging you out into a massive guerilla war. Trying to do this to an entire planet would be crazy.

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Bolter rounds are NASTY. They are solid rocket fuel propelled, .75 caliber, delayed fuse (waits until it enters a structure or body), explosive rounds. They are solid rocket fuel propelled to make the actual projectile as big as it can be to produce the biggest bang.

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I think the Impy Guard would be on a different level than a lot of our armed forces. There's a description in the BRB of the different levels of lasgun wound. The trauma they produce is massive. On a level with a hollow point 50 calibre round. And that's just the line infantry carrying around stuff like that.

The Guard are also heavily indoctrinated and possess limitless numbers. Not to mention the air support they have available. Supersonic jets that can ground attack in hover mode? We've nothing like that.

Militarily, I think most of our conventional armed forces would be mopped up, pretty easily. What's in question is whether Earth could be pacified without resorting to Exterminatus. As the British found in Ireland, the US in Vietnam, Iraq etc and the USSR found in Afghanistan, local populations don't really like to roll over and have their bellies tickled by interloping powers.
   
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I'm not sure an Abrams is stopping an Executioners plasma shot that is described as a ball of plasma burning as hot as the sun.

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Banville wrote:
I think the Impy Guard would be on a different level than a lot of our armed forces. There's a description in the BRB of the different levels of lasgun wound. The trauma they produce is massive. On a level with a hollow point 50 calibre round. And that's just the line infantry carrying around stuff like that.

The Guard are also heavily indoctrinated and possess limitless numbers. Not to mention the air support they have available. Supersonic jets that can ground attack in hover mode? We've nothing like that.

Militarily, I think most of our conventional armed forces would be mopped up, pretty easily. What's in question is whether Earth could be pacified without resorting to Exterminatus. As the British found in Ireland, the US in Vietnam, Iraq etc and the USSR found in Afghanistan, local populations don't really like to roll over and have their bellies tickled by interloping powers.


We have never faced a serious existential threat though. Even the height of WW2 and the Nazi genocides are not on the scale of “surrender or we will annihilate all life on your planet, because while we’d love to have your land we will absolutely not tolerate a world nothing owing to our rule”. I don’t think it’s too unlikely that after a sufficiently nasty stomping our world simply make rolls over and plays nice. Sure, they might need to glass a continent to prove it, but that’s SOP isn’t it?
   
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gendoikari87 wrote:
Except here’s where your wrong about the lasgun, the lasgun and autogun are give precisely the same stats. The auto guy is quite literally just an assault rifle. Sure the lasgun has logistical advantages but in terms of damage gw has decreed in various rule sets they are roughly equivalent

As for our tank guns being 1 shot autocannon that’s also wrong because our autocannons are their autocannons

The autogun is not just an assault rifle. It is an assault rifle that shoots .50 cal. Autoguns have a ridiculously large bore and fire ridiculously heavy ammunition, which is why they have that heavy weight underneath the barrel, to balance out the crazy recoil somewhat.

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A soldier today could take a light machine gun and shoot at a guardsmen and I'd bet you that his 5+ save would pass. The guardsmen would point back with his lasgun and shoot the guy and it'd be over. I mean, c'mon. The guardsmen fights aliens in a world that is 38 thousand years ahead of us. We can only recall roughly 6-8 thousand years of our own history.

I'll bet you a US Marine could beat a Guardsmen in an arm wrestle, but would have an incredibly difficult time finding 21st century ammunition that could pierce that flak armor. Of course, a guardsmen can easily be shot in the face and killed, but the modern soldiers' flak jacket and other equipment would not protect him in the least for a lasgun shot.

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Even with the fluff and lore, it's pretty likely that the IG would be on par with a modern military. They don't wear full composite suits of armour and thus their soft fleshy human bodies would be just as vulnerable to small arms fire, explosions, fragmentation, etc. While they may have "magic" plasteel, etc...it's a bit at odds with how they describe their weaponry (much of which is described in pretty normal human/terran terms). It's very likely that a modern anti-tank weapon would be effective against a Leman Russ etc. There's nothing in the fluff which would make me think a modern MBT sabot round would fail to damage a Chimera or a Russ, etc.

Now, comparing it to fancy Eldar stuff or Space Marines would be much more difficult. We could wreck some Ork stuff without issue, but their sheer numbers would be impossible to defeat.
   
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Earth

 Elbows wrote:
Even with the fluff and lore, it's pretty likely that the IG would be on par with a modern military. They don't wear full composite suits of armour and thus their soft fleshy human bodies would be just as vulnerable to small arms fire, explosions, fragmentation, etc. While they may have "magic" plasteel, etc...it's a bit at odds with how they describe their weaponry (much of which is described in pretty normal human/terran terms). It's very likely that a modern anti-tank weapon would be effective against a Leman Russ etc. There's nothing in the fluff which would make me think a modern MBT sabot round would fail to damage a Chimera or a Russ, etc.

Now, comparing it to fancy Eldar stuff or Space Marines would be much more difficult. We could wreck some Ork stuff without issue, but their sheer numbers would be impossible to defeat.



Some guard regiments do use full body armour, I wonder if the Astra militarum still exist in 40k ?

Anyway, yep I pretty much agree with you, a DU round would likely destroy a guard tank, but in my mind it tigers vs Sherman’s, we have the tigers.
   
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 Silentz wrote:
I think the point is that due to the Imperium's massively stretched resources, a standard Guardsman is completely equivalent to a standard modern soldier. I don't see a lasgun or autogun as being any different to a high quality modern weapon.

The only issue is the massive freakin' spaceship that brought them to the planet, and the fact that the Imperium has so many men, they can subjugate entire planets.

It's all completely unrealistic of course. See how hard it is to control a small region of a planet like Iraq or Afghanistan without the native populace going to ground and dragging you out into a massive guerilla war. Trying to do this to an entire planet would be crazy.

Well, I guess that explains all the atrocities the Imperium commits on a daily basis. The Imperium thinks nothing of just massacring every single person on a planet. Life is extremely cheap, they can just ship in some new colonists and that will be cheaper than spending military materiel on an occupation effort.

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Fort Hood (Tx)

 Formosa wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
Even with the fluff and lore, it's pretty likely that the IG would be on par with a modern military. They don't wear full composite suits of armour and thus their soft fleshy human bodies would be just as vulnerable to small arms fire, explosions, fragmentation, etc. While they may have "magic" plasteel, etc...it's a bit at odds with how they describe their weaponry (much of which is described in pretty normal human/terran terms). It's very likely that a modern anti-tank weapon would be effective against a Leman Russ etc. There's nothing in the fluff which would make me think a modern MBT sabot round would fail to damage a Chimera or a Russ, etc.

Now, comparing it to fancy Eldar stuff or Space Marines would be much more difficult. We could wreck some Ork stuff without issue, but their sheer numbers would be impossible to defeat.



Some guard regiments do use full body armour, I wonder if the Astra militarum still exist in 40k ?

Anyway, yep I pretty much agree with you, a DU round would likely destroy a guard tank, but in my mind it tigers vs Sherman’s, we have the tigers.


I disagree, it would be more like Tigers vs T-90s. And the Imperium has the t-90s


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Earth

 kinratha wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
Even with the fluff and lore, it's pretty likely that the IG would be on par with a modern military. They don't wear full composite suits of armour and thus their soft fleshy human bodies would be just as vulnerable to small arms fire, explosions, fragmentation, etc. While they may have "magic" plasteel, etc...it's a bit at odds with how they describe their weaponry (much of which is described in pretty normal human/terran terms). It's very likely that a modern anti-tank weapon would be effective against a Leman Russ etc. There's nothing in the fluff which would make me think a modern MBT sabot round would fail to damage a Chimera or a Russ, etc.

Now, comparing it to fancy Eldar stuff or Space Marines would be much more difficult. We could wreck some Ork stuff without issue, but their sheer numbers would be impossible to defeat.



Some guard regiments do use full body armour, I wonder if the Astra militarum still exist in 40k ?

Anyway, yep I pretty much agree with you, a DU round would likely destroy a guard tank, but in my mind it tigers vs Sherman’s, we have the tigers.


I disagree, it would be more like Tigers vs T-90s. And the Imperium has the t-90s



Nah, guard tanks are tough but crap when it comes to design, simply because the mook that designed it knows nothing about tanks, look at the large flat sides, low ground clearance, high profile, going off the assumption that we could pop them from range on the move, we would have the advantage.

I am also using the Taros campaign as a good signifier of how good they are in that kind of war, also Vervunhive (necropolis) show they can shoot on the move with targeting software, but the range is very limited.

When it comes to targeting equipment, we have them soundly beaten, but they have a lot more tanks.
   
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 Formosa wrote:
 kinratha wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
Even with the fluff and lore, it's pretty likely that the IG would be on par with a modern military. They don't wear full composite suits of armour and thus their soft fleshy human bodies would be just as vulnerable to small arms fire, explosions, fragmentation, etc. While they may have "magic" plasteel, etc...it's a bit at odds with how they describe their weaponry (much of which is described in pretty normal human/terran terms). It's very likely that a modern anti-tank weapon would be effective against a Leman Russ etc. There's nothing in the fluff which would make me think a modern MBT sabot round would fail to damage a Chimera or a Russ, etc.

Now, comparing it to fancy Eldar stuff or Space Marines would be much more difficult. We could wreck some Ork stuff without issue, but their sheer numbers would be impossible to defeat.



Some guard regiments do use full body armour, I wonder if the Astra militarum still exist in 40k ?

Anyway, yep I pretty much agree with you, a DU round would likely destroy a guard tank, but in my mind it tigers vs Sherman’s, we have the tigers.


I disagree, it would be more like Tigers vs T-90s. And the Imperium has the t-90s



Nah, guard tanks are tough but crap when it comes to design, simply because the mook that designed it knows nothing about tanks, look at the large flat sides, low ground clearance, high profile, going off the assumption that we could pop them from range on the move, we would have the advantage.

I am also using the Taros campaign as a good signifier of how good they are in that kind of war, also Vervunhive (necropolis) show they can shoot on the move with targeting software, but the range is very limited.

When it comes to targeting equipment, we have them soundly beaten, but they have a lot more tanks.

Who cares about flat sides if your tank is made from magical space stuff? Imperial Guard tanks are made out of a material that (doesn't exist) is unknown to us, so we can't know how their tanks compare to ours.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/01 14:31:46


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Gig Harbor, WA

The LRBT is a terrible combat tank, but a perfect strategic tank for the imperium. The imperium uses it because its cheap to produce, easy to repair (once you wash the blood out), and has an engine designed to run on just about anything combustible.

All of its combat weaknesses are strengths in the imperium's eyes.

1. It has a stupidly large main gun. The gun is so large the tank clearly can't store much in the way of ammo. Doesn't matter, the tank won't survive combat anyway, so less ammo is wasted when the tank is destroyed.

2. No suspension. Doesn't matter, the tank will be transported to the combat site on dropships. And then it will be destroyed.

3. Large profile. Lets the tank get off more accurate shots and provides cover for other units. Before it is destroyed.

Really its a suicide box. The imperium just doesn't give a gakk.
   
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The argument is made messy by the fact that the Imperium visual design is inspired heavily by WW1 designs. It's not that the tanks are badly designed, its that they are designed with tank theory of WW1/2 era mixed with fantasy.

Heck the original Land Raider is very much a trench warfare designed tank with tracks that go over the top and side mounted guns.

Antiquated designs by our modern theories, but then again our modern military is based upon the idea of fewer elite units; whilst the Imperium is based on sheer weight of numbers.

Which is the other aspect. Even if you could find a way to argue modern weapons could stand a chance (light armour on at least the infantry would give us a standing chance at hurting them, it would be more if you could snipe or survive being hurt back); even if modern armies could steal weapons from falling Imperium soldiers; the weight of numbers that the Imperium of Man could bring upon one planet is insane. Forget D-Day, the kind of size of force that could be mobilized, landed and in use in a single day would be enough to overwhelm whatever heavy defence we could muster.

In short they've a technological advantage; they've a numbers advantage and they've the fact that they'd come from space so they'd have logistical advantages.
Basically the Imperium would hold practically every card.




Nuclear weapons that we have are also not a huge trump card; in fact our forces would likely have more reservations against using such weapons than the Imperium; who could repair the damage and not care about it; meanwhile we'd have a vested interest in not wanting to win by irradiating the entire planet (sure we might drive off invaders, and render the only world we can live on a wasteland).


In short - we'd lose.

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 Formosa wrote:
 kinratha wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
Even with the fluff and lore, it's pretty likely that the IG would be on par with a modern military. They don't wear full composite suits of armour and thus their soft fleshy human bodies would be just as vulnerable to small arms fire, explosions, fragmentation, etc. While they may have "magic" plasteel, etc...it's a bit at odds with how they describe their weaponry (much of which is described in pretty normal human/terran terms). It's very likely that a modern anti-tank weapon would be effective against a Leman Russ etc. There's nothing in the fluff which would make me think a modern MBT sabot round would fail to damage a Chimera or a Russ, etc.

Now, comparing it to fancy Eldar stuff or Space Marines would be much more difficult. We could wreck some Ork stuff without issue, but their sheer numbers would be impossible to defeat.



Some guard regiments do use full body armour, I wonder if the Astra militarum still exist in 40k ?

Anyway, yep I pretty much agree with you, a DU round would likely destroy a guard tank, but in my mind it tigers vs Sherman’s, we have the tigers.


I disagree, it would be more like Tigers vs T-90s. And the Imperium has the t-90s



Nah, guard tanks are tough but crap when it comes to design, simply because the mook that designed it knows nothing about tanks, look at the large flat sides, low ground clearance, high profile, going off the assumption that we could pop them from range on the move, we would have the advantage.

I am also using the Taros campaign as a good signifier of how good they are in that kind of war, also Vervunhive (necropolis) show they can shoot on the move with targeting software, but the range is very limited.

When it comes to targeting equipment, we have them soundly beaten, but they have a lot more tanks.
The designs are only crap because we are basing them off our experience/technology. For all we know, heavy bolsters could smash modern MBTs


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From a real life Engineering stand point coupled with being an actually infantrymen myself, I can attest that the Astra Militarum tech is pretty bad is comparison to current US Army tech.

The humble Lasgun can be defeated with smoke.

The humble Lascannon can be defeated with smoke.

The Chimera has a better chance of killing its passengers than any enemy shooting at it, due to its lack of suspension. The constant vibration and jarring impacts from even relatively moderate terrain will concuss and rupture internal organs.

The Leman Russ is a death trap. Same issues with the Chimera, only magnified by the horrible turret design of the main weapon. Just firing the Battlecannon should kill or concuss the crew.

Baneblades are too big to be effective in modern warfare. They are huge targets that can’t cross a river or a bridge or even drive on a road. They can’t even enter an urban area without worrying about falling through the surface into a basement, sub level, or sinkhole.

40k fighter craft are not even remotely aerodynamic, and should be out maneuvered and out gunned by 3rd gen fighters, let alone 4th gen.

Now let’s look at our tech:

The humble assault rifle doesn’t give an F about smoke. And modern Infantry are trained to advanced under supporting in skirmish level combat rather than trench warfare as seen in 40k. Modern Infantry are also trained to dig in with hasty fighting positions, ready foxholes, and given a little time even sandbag bunkers. And every modern Infantryman can throw a grenade.

Modern tanks have a bevy of defensive measures ranging from rolled homogeneous armor, spaced armor, reactive armor, appliqué armor, composite, metal foam, and even automated defensive platforms. They also have suspension, properly design fighting compartments, Nuclear-Biological-Chemical protection systems, electromagnetic plus protection, and most likely importantly, ballistic targeting computers.

And as such, anti-tank weaponry exists to punch out almost every form of defense, including High Explosive Squash Head rounds that defeat armor via plasma, which is countered by explosively reactive armor. Which means plasma weapons aren’t very effective against most modern main battle tanks.

And we have wet navies with extremely long range missile systems, cannons, aircraft, and nukes.

The only things the Imperium have over our modern military is the high ground (space), and stupidly overpowered transhuman Marines. Thankfully, a shoulder launched anti-tank rocket will F up an Astartes.

SJ

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Not sure how cannon regimental standard is but here it compares old tanks to lrbt
M

https://regimental-standard.com/2017/10/25/the-history-of-the-imperium-tanks-of-old-terra/

011000100111010101110100001000000110100 100100000011101000110010101101100011011 000010000001111001011011110111010100100 000011101110110010100100000011101110110 010101110010011001010010000001100111011 011110110010001110011001000000110111101 101110011000110110010100100000011000010 110111001100100001000000111011101100101 001000000111001101101000011000010110110 001101100001000000110001001100101001000 000110011101101111011001000111001100100 000011000010110011101100001011010010110 1110  
   
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 jeffersonian000 wrote:
From a real life Engineering stand point coupled with being an actually infantrymen myself, I can attest that the Astra Militarum tech is pretty bad is comparison to current US Army tech.

The humble Lasgun can be defeated with smoke.

The humble Lascannon can be defeated with smoke.

The Chimera has a better chance of killing its passengers than any enemy shooting at it, due to its lack of suspension. The constant vibration and jarring impacts from even relatively moderate terrain will concuss and rupture internal organs.

The Leman Russ is a death trap. Same issues with the Chimera, only magnified by the horrible turret design of the main weapon. Just firing the Battlecannon should kill or concuss the crew.

Baneblades are too big to be effective in modern warfare. They are huge targets that can’t cross a river or a bridge or even drive on a road. They can’t even enter an urban area without worrying about falling through the surface into a basement, sub level, or sinkhole.

40k fighter craft are not even remotely aerodynamic, and should be out maneuvered and out gunned by 3rd gen fighters, let alone 4th gen.

Now let’s look at our tech:

The humble assault rifle doesn’t give an F about smoke. And modern Infantry are trained to advanced under supporting in skirmish level combat rather than trench warfare as seen in 40k. Modern Infantry are also trained to dig in with hasty fighting positions, ready foxholes, and given a little time even sandbag bunkers. And every modern Infantryman can throw a grenade.

Modern tanks have a bevy of defensive measures ranging from rolled homogeneous armor, spaced armor, reactive armor, appliqué armor, composite, metal foam, and even automated defensive platforms. They also have suspension, properly design fighting compartments, Nuclear-Biological-Chemical protection systems, electromagnetic plus protection, and most likely importantly, ballistic targeting computers.

And as such, anti-tank weaponry exists to punch out almost every form of defense, including High Explosive Squash Head rounds that defeat armor via plasma, which is countered by explosively reactive armor. Which means plasma weapons aren’t very effective against most modern main battle tanks.

And we have wet navies with extremely long range missile systems, cannons, aircraft, and nukes.

The only things the Imperium have over our modern military is the high ground (space), and stupidly overpowered transhuman Marines. Thankfully, a shoulder launched anti-tank rocket will F up an Astartes.

SJ


There you go, trying the use our worlds physics.

You'll have to show me some sources in the fluff of smoke stopping a lascannon. Our worlds physics is not the same as 40k. If the LRBT and Lasgun were good enough to combat multiple alien empires and all sorts of different tec, then sure it will be good enough to utterly crush Modern earth.


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The Imperium has giant robots that can stand on our tanks. Looking at lower end Imperium tech vs our high end stuff is reasonable comparison. Our high end vs. theirs? No contest. Titans with shields that can absorb punishment that's hard to imagine outside of nuclear weaponry. Drop pods that can be deployed into anywhere with a line of sight from above that open and have a stack of guns inside or superhuman killing machines. Aircraft that can come in from space and fly comfortably above our modern fighter jets. The list goes on.

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40k is Fantasy in space with a scifi skin. The real world is, practically speaking, light years beyond 40k, and, barring orbital bombardment by ships that have no right to function, would obliterate most 40k forces with ease, including Space Marines.

Stuff like smartphones, the internet, radar guided counterbattry artillery fire, GPS guided munitions, in depth SAM air defenses, BVR engagement, etc are all common standard things in the modern world that have few or no 40k equivalents, especially beyond rare relics. Most 40k stuff, even highly advanced Eldar war machines and Necron technosorcery, basically operates around a 20th century paradigm of warfare. Most 40k vehicles couldnt work in real life even if they wanted to, you get stuff like Russ tanks that dont have enough room for a crew and a gun breach that blocks the one hatch, Land Raiders that would get stuck on a grocery store parking lot speed bump, and Space Marines that never carry more than one magazine of ammunition

Even aircraft and space fighters, most wouldnt fly, of those that do, they rely on a WW2 combat paradigm of dogfighting with direct fire, fixed forward mounted guns.

40k doesnt make sense when you try to compare it to the real world, it all falls apart very quickly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/01 15:39:46


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