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My brother, I and our mates sometime watch all films in one series (or at least all that someone in the know among us consider worth watching) in one marathon run lasting one or two days. Obviously refreshing pauses with some outdoors jog and food preparation are key to stay keen and not doze off too early with all that sitting (standing & watching also helps), and better respect the need for nightly sleep. In anticipation of Episode VII, we watched all Star Wars movies from I-VI.
Listening to this video while painting reinforced my own impression of something of interest for future friendly marathon watches: The new Star Wars trilogy, for all its good moments (and there are many to point to, incl. in Episode VIII), doesn't fit into the overall story arc. While moments like Luke sacrificing himself by hallucination exhaustion were inventive and ideas with merits, the overall impression is just off, even if the aesthetics are right.
The prequels, for all their flaws, clicks into place with the original trilogy: It's about the tragedy of Anakin, and the fall of the Republic and rise of the Empire. George Lucas himself always saw Star Wars as a family drama, and obviously it's constructed this way, but I've since my early childhood first watch of Star Wars had eyes primarily for the big stuff: The rise and fall of empires, the strategy and the upheavals, and obviously all the nice designs for both Rebel and Imperial tech and uniforms. Lucas had a coherent idea of the overall story arc for the nine trilogies when it concerns the Skywalker family. Perhaps that family stuff works as it stands in the current unfolding trilogy, or perhaps it doesn't, but what I cannot help but notice is that the big background story breaks apart at Episode VII.
One would expect something like this to be present at the start of the new trilogy, and the versions are not mutually exclusive: Imperial infighting and warlords. Ascendant Republic pressing a shrinking Empire hard. A situation that opens with the Empire as underdog, just like in the Thrawn trilogy: It's something that clicks into place with what went before, where we saw the Rebel Alliance's great victory at Endor. Such a triumph should have visible results. Show, don't tell.
Then the trilogy could unfold with a shining new leader scooping up the Imperial remnants and clawing them back into a position of threat and power, a true menace reborn before our eyes on screen, an Imperial phoenix. And the narrative could unfold around this twist, with the heroes gunning for a resurgent Empire to go down and all manner of Skywalker family drama going on.
What should not be in such a new setting is a massive superweapon right off the bat: If that is to happen (and there are good reasons to avoid it because of oversaturation - the prequels stayed clear of it, to their merit), then it must be built up/revealed as the new trilogy unfolds, and not exist smack bang right at the first movie. A beset Empire cannot have the massive resources Palpatine once had to build a Deathstar.
While Star Wars movies are rather fun shallow flicks one watch for aesthetics, music and blaster/lightsaber action primarily, its backdrop ought to make sense since there is a story in them. The prequels and original trilogy line up, the new trilogy doesn't line up. It starts off with a reboot of Episode IV. And this brings some new respect for Lucas' sight on telling an overarching story, since Disney's take doesn't click fundamentally.
Which leads back to the start point: Movie marathons should positively tell a coherent overall story, but the new trilogy, for all its good moments, veer off the path. I suspect future Star Wars marathons for us will involve the prequels, the new Stories spin-offs in-between, and the original trilogy, ending the race at Episode VI on a high note. Not because the new trilogy is horrible (it isn't), but because it doesn't line up.
This might seem as a rant, but as a storywriter one is constantly reflecting about stuff like this to learn good takes, and what doesn't work. This is just sharing of some quick thoughts.
What do you think? What Star Wars movies will you include if you watch them in a marathon sitting?
At the moment when I rewatch Star Wars, I use modified Machete Order(Rogue One, IV, V, II, III, VI) mainly because I tend to rewatch the films with people who're new to it and that seems like the best way to preserve the twists. The inclusion of the prequels and R1 are there chiefly for the sake of Vader - his air of menace in ANH is significantly enhanced for a new viewer when they know what he's capable of, and establishing the kind of man he was before turning to evil adds a little to Luke's struggle in RotJ and makes their interactions a bit weightier.
Whether the sequels, in full or in part, end up joining that depends entirely on EpIX. If Abrams can strike the right balance between his own initial effort(which was far too much focused on tweaking people's nostalgia bone and not nearly enough on a coherent plot and comprehensible character development) and TLJ(which doesn't need to be gone over again, but is IMO not good in several ways though chiefly in how much it strives to be the opposite of VII with that "kill the past" nonsense), it's possible he can retroactively salvage the other two films to some degree and connect them up with the OT and PT in a meaningful way.
Otherwise they'll end up being as iffy as the prequels but without really adding anything worthwhile to the existing Saga films, so there'd be no reason to watch them as a sequence. It's possible they might be considered required viewing for the new trilogies they're supposedly working on, though those likely won't be for me - one film's worth of Rian Johnson was more than enough for me.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
this is the best starting point, then adjusted upward based on the time you have.
starting with ( the last 1/2 of the second movie when the jedi show up, clone wars movie, 3) if you add in the cartoon series, skip the last season as it really makes the jedi and especially yoda look like a bunch of amatures and idiots.
I haven't caught much of rebels, it might be worth including. I'd put them in to start it off before rougue one as we can see their ship at the space battle if it has anything significant to add.
once rebels is ended I'm sure there are guides for the abridged version of each cartoon series to trim out the filler episodes.
I'd put solo in after 3, to bring us back to the current setting as han dreams about his life and how he ended up as decoration.
7, 8 for now are definetly out, as they don't lead to any coherent story and it's doubtful 9 can save them. so stop at 6 with the happy ending.
sure that put's you over 2 day, but as I'm currently doing a doctor who marathon starting with the original doctor (heartnell) the above star wars marathon seems short by comparison
Kilkrazy wrote: What was George Lucas's grand vision for episodes 7,8 and 9?
Written in 1981 (so pre-Jedi, remember that with some of the Leia references):
Spoiler:
A SEQUEL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER DEPT.
Most everyone’s who’s seen “Star Wars” and “The Empire Strikes Back” is
wondering what George Lucas is planning for his next sequel! We’ve heard he
’s planning a total of nine films, or is it eight, or twelve? There are
reports the first two films aren’t really the first chronologically, that
they fall somewhere in the middle! And what about Luke Skywalker? Is he
the son of Darth Vader? Will he marry Princess Leia? What’s ahead for Han
Solo and Artoo-Detoo? Well, we at MAD figure someone’s got to have a master
plan of the whole mess, right? Right! And what does that carefully guarded
master plan look like? Heh heh…
THE “STAR WARS” LOG
THE MASTER PLAN FOR FUTURE SPACE FILMS
*** TOP SECRET ***
PROPERTY OF GEORGE LUCAS PRODUCTIONS
=======================================
FROM THE DESK OF GEORGE LUCAS
TO: ALL STAFF MEMBERS
THE PLOTS AND CHARACTERS OF OUR SPACE FILMS ARE GETTING SO CONFUSING THAT
SOMETIMES EVEN I CAN’T TRACK OF WHAT’S GOING ON.
SO I’VE PUT TOGETHER THIS BOOKLET TO MAKE EVERYTHING CLEAR, AFTER YOU READ
IT, YOU’LL SEE WHERE WE’RE HEADING—GL P.S. DON’T LET THIS BOOKLET OUT OF THE STUDIO, IF AUDIENCES KNEW IN ADVANCE
WHAT WE’RE PLANNING, IT COULD RUIN US.
======================================
Altogether, there will be 12 films in our epic space saga, but they will not
be made in chronological order. “STAR WARS” and “THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK,”
our first two films, are actually No. 5 and No. 6 in the series.
Our third picture (really No. 2 in the series) will be “SEND IN THE CLONES,”
in which we find out that both Darth Vadr and Obi-Wan Kenobi were cloned by
the same donor, who happens to be a long-lost grandfather of Chewbacca’s.
This sets up a conflict between the Wookies and the Empire, which becomes
the plot for our fourth film (No. 3 in the series), “MAKIN’ WOOKIE.”
Meanwhile, in our sixth film, “HIYA LEIA” (No. 10 in the series), Princess
Leia discovers that her grandfather and Han Solo’s grandmother were
next-door neighbors on Alderaan, before it was blown up by Darth Vader (in
“STAR WARS”). In a wild, galactic battle, Luke fights Boba Fett, and we are
left with the impression that Boba may be Luke’s father.
After seeing “THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK,” some people got the idea that Darth
Vader is Luke Skywalker’s real father. Although “MAKIN’ WOOKIE” doesn’t
clear this up, it does reveal how an ancestor of Princess Leia befriends
Yoda, who organizes the Jedi Knights, comprised of Darth Vader (then a young
idealist in love with Lando Calrissian’s great-aunt) and Obi-Wan Kenobi, who
defend the Wookies when their home, the planet Kazhyyk, is overrun by droids
(film No. 11, “CUT AND DROID”).
This ties in neatly with our fifth film (No. 1 in the series), “A MATTER OF
LIFE AND DARTH,” in which Luke, who has unraveled the secrets of time travel
(in “MAKIN’ WOOKIE”), learns that Darth Vader is a half-droid and may be the
father of both Han Solo and See-Threepio. Luke gets this informatin from
Yoda, who reveals that Darth Vader, being part droid, distrusts humans and
plans to organize all the droids in the hope of destroying the Rebel
Alliance.
This brings us to our seventh film, “CUT AND DROID” (No. 11 in the series),
which recounts the Great Droid War, in which See-Threepio apparently dies,
after a valiant battle against rust. This should not be confused with the
plot of our eighth film, “LOOK MA, NO HAN” (No. 9 in the series), in which
HAN Solo is forced to become an undercover agent for Darth Vader, and is
lost in hyper-space after Artoo-Detoo reveals that Princess Leia may be the
daughter of Obi-Wan Kenobia from his first marriage to a sister of Boba
Fett’s great-grandmother.
Both Boba Fett and Jabba the Hut (who are introduced in “THE EMPIRE STRIKES
BACK”) were once comrades of Darth Vader, and this is brought out in our
ninth film, “YESSIR, THAT’S MY BOBA” (No. 4 in the series). We find out
that Luke Skywalker’s lightsaber was once recharged by Boba Fett’s father,
who we suspect may be Chewbacca. This ties in with the romance between
See-Threepio (who learns he is part-human) and Chewbacca’s half-hairy
sister, Varga (introduced in “CUT AND DROID”).
Here we learn from Artoo-Detoo (who holds the entire history of the Galaxy
in his memory banks) how the Jedi Knights were disbanded, and also observe
See-Threepio’s nervous breakdown, when he finds out that mixed marriages
sometimes don’t work.
We learn more about Luke’s ancestry in our eleventh film, “SPACE ‘N VADER”
(No. 7 in the series) as the Jedi Knights split into three factions—one
loyal to Princess Leia, another loyal to Darth Vader, and a third having no
opinion. Luke returns from a space voyage to the planet Kazhyyk where he
discovers the true identity of his father while rescuing Chewbacca from
midget aliens. Luke, as it turns out, lives as a young boy with the
Wookies, who snatched him froma drone spaceship just outside the Mandalore
System, the home of Boba Fett and other Super Commandos. The Wookies gave
Luke the name of “Skywalker,” which, in the Wookie tongue, means “Hairless
Warrior Who Destroys Evil with Beam of Light.” Now Luke learns from
Artoo-Detoo that neither Darth Vader, Obi-Wan Kenobi, nor Boba Fett is his
father.
However, we always come back to the question of who is Luke’s father, and in
our tenth film, “LANDO PLENTY” (No. 8 in the series), we discover that Lando
Calrissian’s great-aunt (whom we met in “MAKIN’ WOOKIE”) may have been the
wife of Obi-Too Kenobi (Obi-Wan’s younger brother) in Cloud City, when Lando
’s father joined forces with a cousin of Han Solo’s to put down the First
Droid Uprising, which leads to the Great Droid War (seen in “CUT AND
DROID”).
In our twelfth film, “ONCE A KNIGHT IS ENOUGH” (No. 12 in the series), the
identity of Luke’s father is finally revealed. It is none other than the
Force, which as we learned in “SEND IN THE CLONES,” was once capable of
taking on human form before it dissolved into the Sixth Dimension. Luke is
reunited with Princess Leia (who has left Darth Vader after being forced to
marry him in “HIYA, LEIA”) and they move to another galaxy.
This last film serves as the climax to the “STAR WARS SAGA—PART I.”
Immediately after it is completed (we figure that to be sometime around the
year 2014), we will begin work on the 24 films that make up the “STAR WARS
SAGA—PART II.”
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
The only Star Wars movies I'll watch in a marathon setting are a trio of VHS tapes. Uncontaminated with CGI nonsense- and Han Shoots first.
Yes, I'm that kind of person. Star Wars wasn't ruined for me with the new movies, or even the prequels. It was ruined when the classic trilogy was 'enhanced' and the originals were not available short of getting a fan version on the internet.
As for the question of saga order, it's not something I've thought about for a while, because regardless of the prequels for me it's always been IV, V, VI and that's it. Now I'd definitely put Rogue One in there as well, but where? It almost seems sacrilegious to not start with ANH given the iconic opening, and let's not forget that the start of R1 is a bit dull and choppy anyway. But it doesn't make a lot of sense to put it anywhere else either. Hmm.
Similar story to Solo. Does it makes to be introduced to Han in this film or should the introduction still be his ANH arc. Not sure, and if it is (as I suspect) the start of a 'underworld' SWCU that takes up a few movies pre-ANH then that complicates things more.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Adeptus Doritos wrote: The only Star Wars movies I'll watch in a marathon setting are a trio of VHS tapes. Uncontaminated with CGI nonsense- and Han Shoots first.
My media server has 4 versions of Empire Strikes Back available: The original theatrical cut, the DVD edition (I don't watch this one), the "de-specialised" edition (a fan project to keep the quality of the new editions but remove all the extra scenes etc) and the revisited edition, which is another fan project which aims to make 'better' special editions, even filming new footage to insert into the film.
Oh, there's also the Family Guy retelling...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/03 15:07:21
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
Kilkrazy wrote: Is your original theatrical cut the one that isn't Star Wars 4, but just Star Wars?
Well I was talking about Empire, so no...
But in actual fact I do have a file for Star Wars that doesn't say Episode IV (the despecialised also doesn't, and that's the one I prefer to watch these days as it's notably higher video quality)
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
I got to see the pre-special edition (gak-ition?) version of Empire. Vader in his fight with Luke? My God he's scary! He snarls and hisses when attacking Luke instead of sounding like he studded his toe. And instead of that "Prepare for my arrival" nonsense, he just snaps "bring my shuttle". This tiny, seemly insignificant tweak completely turned the aftermath of the fight on it's head.
Future War Cultist wrote: I got to see the pre-special edition (gak-ition?) version of Empire. Vader in his fight with Luke? My God he's scary! He snarls and hisses when attacking Luke instead of sounding like he studded his toe. And instead of that "Prepare for my arrival" nonsense, he just snaps "bring my shuttle". This tiny, seemly insignificant tweak completely turned the aftermath of the fight on it's head.
It's a very different feel, especially that scene in Empire when he and like fire up the lightsaber. It's downright scary.
Apparently when he was selling to disney lucas was pitching his ideas for 7,8, and 9. It included a predominately child cast. As in ages 6-12.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, i am hoping that once the fox deal gets done and disney aquires the rights for a new hope (fun fact, fox still owns that) we can get a cleaned up restoration of the theatrical cuts of 4 5 and 6.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/04 02:37:39
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
It's funny, I got to overhear a YouTube video someone was watching for a little while talking about this. Specifically they talked about the FO and how it took all the key points from the Empire but really gave you no real context to them or their goals.
One point they compared was the destruction of Alderaan and the planets blown up in TFA. We feel bad for Alderaan because we see the affect of watching her home world destroyed has on her and we see the Empire making an example of a suspected public collaborator with the Rebellion. I really felt nothing for the capitol of the New Republic getting blown up when the only real interaction we get with the NR is them not really doing much to support Lelia's Resistance. In one we get that the Empire is willing to destroy a peaceful planet to show the consequences of treachery of one person. In the other they blow up a strategic target plus some other planets just because (maybe to show that a star killer is cooler than a Death Star?).
Unfortunately I didn't get to hear all off it. They did talk about the prequels and how George Lucas definitely tried to make it about the rise of tyrranical rulers with popular support, drawing from Caesar, Napoleon, Hitler, etc. this did give it a more natural flow into ANH than you get from RotJ to TFA. I wish I had the link for it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/04 14:29:28
Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis!
I really, really want to know how necessary 2 is to the Machete order. I'd even be curious if 1 then 3 follows. I just don't think I can actually watch an order that contains 2.
Rogue One can definitely be first, but I'd consider only including the third act, or just cutting the whole middle out. I'm pretty sure you can jump straight from Jedha to Scariff without losing much.
LunarSol wrote: I really, really want to know how necessary 2 is to the Machete order. I'd even be curious if 1 then 3 follows. I just don't think I can actually watch an order that contains 2.
Rogue One can definitely be first, but I'd consider only including the third act, or just cutting the whole middle out. I'm pretty sure you can jump straight from Jedha to Scariff without losing much.
just skip the first 1/2 of 2 and start at the arena. the battle is pretty cool looking. other than that it can be skipped.
Yodhrin wrote: , I use modified Machete Order(Rogue One, IV, V, II, III, VI) .
I don't understand: why do you watch II and III after V and before VI ?
Why not II, III, RO then IV V VI ?
Because it ruins both the "I am your father" and yoda reveal.
If you watch the movies in episode order the only person who doesnt know vader is lukes father is luke. Yodas goofing off is pointless for the audiance.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
I did a marathon before The Last Jedi; TPM, AotC, The Clone Wars series, RotS, Rebels, Rogue 1, ANH, TESB, RotJ, TFA.
Clone Wars and Rebels are very good, but ruin the momentum of the Skywalker story. The prequels are still no good. I'll stick with the Galactic Civil War era from now on. That's got the added bonus that I can ignore the "genetically superior people save the day" theme, because it's still possible from those films that Luke just practised really hard, rather than being all special.
This might be controversial, but.....anyone feel like the Clone Wars should have been called the droid wars...or better yet, that the clones should have been the bad guys? With the stormtrooper corps being formed to fight them? I can explain my thought process better when I get home.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/05 15:36:41
Future War Cultist wrote: This might be controversial, but.....anyone feel like the Clone Wars should have been called the droid wars...or better yet, that the clones should have been the bad guys? With the stormtrooper corps being formed to fight them? I can explain my thought process better when I get home.
I'm guessing its called the clone wars since the droids were also "clones" in essence of them being copies of one another. Furthermore, we take the perspective of the Republic (and eventually Empire) and since history is largely written by the victors it just ended up being called that.
Interesting idea though of the clones being the army that the Republic has to fight, it would make more sense IMO, of discovering it as the weapon of the separatists rather than saying "Hey, free army! Let's use this at a super convenient time to fight a droid army!". It would however suck to lose all the cool droid designs from the war.
Skaorn wrote: It's funny, I got to overhear a YouTube video someone was watching for a little while talking about this. Specifically they talked about the FO and how it took all the key points from the Empire but really gave you no real context to them or their goals.
One point they compared was the destruction of Alderaan and the planets blown up in TFA. We feel bad for Alderaan because we see the affect of watching her home world destroyed has on her and we see the Empire making an example of a suspected public collaborator with the Rebellion. I really felt nothing for the capitol of the New Republic getting blown up when the only real interaction we get with the NR is them not really doing much to support Lelia's Resistance. In one we get that the Empire is willing to destroy a peaceful planet to show the consequences of treachery of one person. In the other they blow up a strategic target plus some other planets just because (maybe to show that a star killer is cooler than a Death Star?).
Unfortunately I didn't get to hear all off it. They did talk about the prequels and how George Lucas definitely tried to make it about the rise of tyrranical rulers with popular support, drawing from Caesar, Napoleon, Hitler, etc. this did give it a more natural flow into ANH than you get from RotJ to TFA. I wish I had the link for it.
because Moana is a fun film and the Tim Curry-esque crab is the most fabulous Sith ever
I...
That's uh..
Er....
Did I ever tell you about my head canon where Ernest P. Worrell is a Jedi? But only in the original trilogy of Goes to Camp, Goes to Jail and Scared Stupid.
(And his holiday special, but good luck finding that.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/05 22:23:24
because Moana is a fun film and the Tim Curry-esque crab is the most fabulous Sith ever
I...
That's uh..
Er....
Did I ever tell you about my head canon where Ernest P. Worrell is a Jedi? But only in the original trilogy of Goes to Camp, Goes to Jail and Scared Stupid.
(And his holiday special, but good luck finding that.)
It's a tale of Mandalorian pre-history troo story
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
