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As the title states. I am curious as to what level DE can play to with out covens. Mostly because i really dislike the models. Rules are OK but nothing awe inspiring to me. Love wyches. Kabals are fun. Lelith is my fav. sad of lack of Kabal special character.

Thanks for the comments.
Mali

Mali wrote:
As the title states. I am curious as to what level DE can play to with out covens. Mostly because i really dislike the models. Rules are OK but nothing awe inspiring to me. Love wyches. Kabals are fun. Lelith is my fav. sad of lack of Kabal special character.

Thanks for the comments.
Mali

They work great. Mix Kabal and Wyches so you still have all the tools you need, and I would recommend you go one of two routes:

Route 1: Primarily shooting. If you spend more than half your points on kabal shooting units, minimize the Wych detachments and go for Red Grief wych cult, who are excellent for tying enemies up. Minimum reaver squads, minimum wych squads with shardnets, that kind of thing. You'd be sorely tempted to bring the Kabal as a brigade and have a huge pool of CPs for Agents of Vect.

Route 2: Primarily Wyches. Go Strife, and bring a minimum kabal detachment just to get the best kabal can bring (Black Heart Spearhead with Trip Ravagers+Writ Archon or a Black Heart airwing). Strife (and Lelith) are good, but require numbers and distractions to get big, scary units into the fray successfully so they can do their ludicrous CP-sucking combos. You could probably get away with a small Kabal battalion paired with your strife Battalion to get more CPs to pump into the wyches, but you'd probably be OK with 9CP and Labyrinthine Cunning (Kabal Spearhead and Wych Battalion). Sadly Wyches physically cannot bring a Brigade without excessive forgeworld stuff so you can't go that route.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an example list:

Wych Battalion

Lelith
Succubus with Tryptch Whip relic+Blood Dancer warlord trait (with Alliance of Agony stratagem)

9x wyches, shardnet
10x wyches, 2x Hydra shardnet
10x Wyches, 2x Hydra Shardnet
All Hekatrix with blast pistol/agonizer/phantasm

12x Reavers 4x blasters 4x grav talons
12x Reavers 4x blasters 4x grav talons
8x Hellions

Raider Disintegrator Shock Prow
Raider Disintegrator Shock Prow
Raider Disintegrator Shock Prow
venom Twin SC

Kabal Spearhead

Archon, Venom blade, Writ of Living Muse

Ravager Triple Dissie
Ravager Triple Dissie
Ravager Triple Lance

Lhamean
Lhamean
Lhamean (just to fill out Lelith's Venom to keep her from dying if it explodes and help her character hunt. Lhameans are really efficient for 15pts)

That's really good to hear. Thanks.

The sample list is nice and really close to my theorized list. mainly due to having different models. I currently lack 3 Ravagers.

I assume the Kabal is Black Heart, and that you would buy the Raiders and Venom in that detachment for the 6+++.

Jackers wrote:
I assume the Kabal is Black Heart, and that you would buy the Raiders and Venom in that detachment for the 6+++.

Oh, Right, true. I usually run RG wyches since my lelith isn't painted yet. The advance and charge is super good on Raiders with the Enhanced Aethersail stratagem.

It's just an example of a solid list. You can dial back on the Reavers to add some scourges or mandrakes, run the BH as a Battalion if you'd rather not have the three Ravagers and run a more troop and CP heavy list, do a Black Heart airwing of a Voidraven and two Razorwings. You can also run the Kabal as Flayed Skull if you want your archon to be more in the fray with the Djinn Blade and Famed Savagery if you decide to go the more infantry focused build.

The only things I'd avoid out of the wych and kabal range are Beastpacks/Masters and Incubi/Drazar, and maybe super excessive numbers of hellions. You gotta have some hellions because they're cool as balls but I'd limit yourself to like 10, because they're not great, just OK.

That is fair, I hadn't given much thought to the RG obsession. I can definitely see the reason for that.
Advance, disembark the contents, then charge with the Raider to soak some overwatch is pretty cool.

Right now I have a about 45 wytchs and 40 Warriors. was planning on a CP heavy list. it just sounds fun to mess with people.

Currently i have 10 Hellions and 9 Reavers. i don't plan on many more.

Maybe a nother set of reaver Gaurdians to cross for a Ynnari army

Love the look and fluff of incubi/ Drazar but yeah don't seam the best on paper. Is there any way to make the Incubi good?

I like Black-heart air-wing so you can get access to agents of vect. (3 void ravens with Dark Scythes)

Flayed skull for a batallion and dessie ravagers. Plus raider warriors with splinter racks.

Very competitive stuff. Though Covens are pretty dang good too. 4++ save all over the place and Grots are just silly.

This does have some Eldar but is mostly Kabal and might be of interest:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/8omyzv/i_went_50_with_a_drukhari_list_at_an_itc_major_64/