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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-44423040?SThisFB



NB :


Might be spoilers in the following so......

Game of Thrones could be getting a prequel series, HBO has announced, one of five potential spin-offs from the series.

Book author George RR Martin has created the new series alongside British screenwriter Jane Goldman.

HBO has ordered a pilot episode for the show, set thousands of years before the battles over the Iron Throne.

Executives say any spin-off will not be broadcast until after Game of Thrones' final season in 2019.

If picked up, the prequel will chronicle "the world's descent from the golden Age of Heroes into its darkest hour", HBO said in a statement.

"From the horrifying secrets of Westeros' history to the true origin of the White Walkers, the mysteries of the East, to the Starks of legend… it's not the story we think we know."

Jane Goldman, who wrote Kick-Ass, X-Men: First Class and the Kingsman films, will serve as a showrunner for the as-yet-unnamed show.

Game of Thrones is HBO's most popular series to date. It has won multiple Emmy awards and drawn tens of millions of viewers worldwide.

The channel has teased what Martin described as "successor shows" in the past, announcing in May 2017 a number of writers who were working on these series.

Other than Goldman, they include Max Borenstein, Brian Helgeland, Carly Wray and Bryan Cogman.

Previous reports have suggested HBO could be willing to throw more than $50m at each season of these new shows.

But HBO's programming president Casey Bloys previously told Hollywood Reporter these series would not focus on the current storyline.

"This story, A Song of Fire and Ice, is done," he said. "There's no revival, reboot, spin-off talk."

So what might a prequel series deal with?

HBO said the series could start in the "golden Age of Heroes", thousands of years before the events in Game of Thrones.

Don't expect any of the current crop of characters to show up. But their ancient forebears may well make an appearance.

Bran the Builder, founder of the House of Stark, was a hero of the time, as well as Lann the Clever, founder of the House of Lannister - two of the central families involved in the Game of Thrones series.
The "true origin of the White Walkers" is another plot point HBO teased in their short statement - the blue-eyed humanoids who constitute a major threat in the more recent series of the show.

George RR Martin's books say the creatures were defeated by the Children of the Forest and the First Men millennia before the events depicted in A Song of Ice and Fire - the book that inspired the Game of Thrones television show.

Could a prequel deal with this ancient war? Or the creation of The Wall, the vast barrier stretching across the entire land of Westeros to keep the White Walkers at bay?

During the Age of Heroes, House Stark moved to unite the North under a single king.

They faced concerted opposition from another family, House Bolton, who fought the Starks and even flayed their men and wore their skin.

Could the ancestors of current show characters Ramsey Bolton and Ned Stark battle it out in the prequel show?

I'd love to see a show on the burtal soap opera which was the Targayrian family after the conquest of Westros.

Would likely give the other stuff mentioned above a watch and see if it was interesting.

I honestly don't see him finishing the original book series now.

 War Drone wrote:
I honestly don't see him finishing the original book series now.

Good - his best work was long ago - the recent books are awful

I have no idea why there was a blanket veto on Dunk & Egg, which is essentially an open framework for storytelling in that universe.

Might be interesting as its heavily implied Westeros' history is largely a work of fiction, or at best somewhat embellishes the truth for the benefit of the ruling class

Would be interesting to see a more magical Westeros, with some actual full-on good guys being good guys instead of the constant "good guys get screwed" stories, and Valyrian magic in it's prime, etc.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/06/16/george-r-r-martin-talks-game-of-thrones-prequel-series/

Author George R. R. Martin seems to be spending a lot of time writing on his personal blog again, after vowing not to. We’re not complaining really, because some of the reveals have been interesting.

Most recently, we found out that a Game of Thrones prequel series had gotten the pilot order from HBO, and that Martin along with Jane Goldman (Kingsman: The Secret Service, X-Men: First Class, Kick-Ass) will be writing the pilot, and if all goes well, more than likely additional episodes.

Over on Martin’s “not a blog” blog, he spoke about both the pilot order and the additional GoT prequel series(eseseses) that had been announced last year, and updated on the status of those:

Yes, this is a prequel, not a sequel. None of the characters or actors from GAME OF THRONES will appear in the new show. All of the successor shows we’ve been developing have been prequels, as I have mentioned before. This one really puts the PRE in prequel, since it is set not ninety years before GAME OF THRONES (like Dunk & Egg), or a few hundred years, but rather ten thousand years (well, assuming the oral histories of the First Men are accurate, but there are maesters at the Citadel who insist it has only been half that long). We’re very early in the process, of course, with the pilot order just in, so we don’t have a director yet, or a cast, or a location, or even a title. (My vote would be THE LONG NIGHT, which says it all, but I’d be surprised if that’s where we end up. More likely HBO will want to work the phrase “game of thrones” in there somewhere. We’ll know sooner or later).

As to the other series:

“As for the other successor shows… if you have been following along, you know that we started with four, and eventually went to five. One of those has been shelved, I am given to understand, and of course Jane’s pilot is now moving to film. But that does not mean the others are dead. Three more ‘Game of Thrones’ prequels, set in different periods and featuring different characters and storylines, remain in active development. Everything I am told indicates that we could film at least one more pilot, and maybe more than one, in the years to come. We do have an entire world and tens of thousands of years of history to play with, after all. But this is television, so nothing is certain.”

He finishes out the entry by remarking on the elephant in the virual room, the lack of progress/update on the long anticipated next book in the “Song of Ice and Fire” series, “Winds of Winter”:

(And yes, before you ask, work on WINDS OF WINTER continues, and remains my top priority. It is ridiculous to think otherwise. If I wasn’t busy with WINDS, don’t you think I’d be scripting one or more of these pilots myself? It’s not as if I’ve never written for TV… )

So cross your fingers and your toes, fantasy fans. Some good stuff is coming. And let’s have a round of applause for Jane Goldman.

...

work on WINDS OF WINTER continues, and remains my top priority. It is ridiculous to think otherwise.

..is it ridiculous ?

Nope its not at all ridiculous

I think he has lost interest in and no longer knows what to do with the story and characters but having been paid already can't say that.

It certianly seemed that way in the last books.

10,000 years back - so first battle against the Walkers etc - oh well not really intererest but will see what it looks like

My feeling has been that somewhere after a Dance with Dragons he realized he had boxed himself in plotwise, so he's going to wait for the show to finish, see how well it's received, and then write to match that, tweaking where necessary.

I do love the books but the show narrative is generally better, to be honest.

I dont see the reason to set the story in the age of heroes, unless they are going for a gritty telling on how it actually happened. But if they are actually gonna try a more standard magical fantasy with a black and white morality, then that kinda misses the point of ASOIAF

But in the end I think they choose the age of heroes simply to have more create control over the project, as it is relatively little written about it. Which is worrisome considering the nose-dive the show took after they started diverge from the books.

Im guessing its going to be a look at how characters like Bran the Builder weren't so heroic as the stories tell. I think black and white moral fantasy would be a disservice to the franchise.

Agreed.

Even now we look back at people in history 100- 200 years ago and paint them in black and white. 5-10,000 years back with worse book keeping, i am sure the stories aee much more interesting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also we can see valyria before the doom.

With a history that long, it stretches my credulity that they have any stories, never mind whether they're accurate or not. I mean, we don't know anything about the first guy to grow his own crops rather than picking them in the wild, let alone have legends about him.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
With a history that long, it stretches my credulity that they have any stories, never mind whether they're accurate or not. I mean, we don't know anything about the first guy to grow his own crops rather than picking them in the wild, let alone have legends about him.

We do have legends and stories a fair distance back in the Middle East especially - that's about 7000 years?

I think black and white moral fantasy would be a disservice to the franchise.

I think this is played up a bit more than the show deserves -same as its killer reputation - the main characters have huge plots shields (Dany and Jon) - its just that it was not asobviosu there were the main couple which the whole story revolves at the very beginning.

Shades of grey - well its pretty standard in fantasy these days and even going back it was not uncommon.

Which is worrisome considering the nose-dive the show took after they started diverge from the books

Curious which part of the turgid trudge through boredom and uninteresting characters the most recent books did better than the show

The show has done a pretty good job with everything but Dorne. Dorne and every character involved with it is a million times more interesting the books. They basically don't exist in the show though.

 Lance845 wrote:
The show has done a pretty good job with everything but Dorne. Dorne and every character involved with it is a million times more interesting the books. They basically don't exist in the show though.

Agreed - Show Dorne was a major swing and miss

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
The show has done a pretty good job with everything but Dorne. Dorne and every character involved with it is a million times more interesting the books. They basically don't exist in the show though.

Agreed - Show Dorne was a major swing and miss

on second thoughts let's not go to Dorne, it is a silly place...

whilst its a bit better in the books it always felt a tad shoehorn in, almost as if George read a book or two on Spain and / or the Middle East and decided to jam it in

the telly version just felt like the 'abroad' that pops up in other show when characters go on holiday

Dorne retained more of their individual culture than the other 7 kingdoms because Dorne was never actually conquered. They chose to unite under the Iron Throne after the Targaryens had given up chasing them around the desert and having their armies die of thirst and starvation. Thats why they feel so different. Even the north as remote as it is was subjugated and thus forced to adjust to the iron thrones ways. Dorne was never forced into all that.

The issue really comes in the "modern" day. Where book Dorne has a massive army at the ready for Danny when she lands and the entire Kingdom is nowhere to be found in the show even after she landed.

 Lance845 wrote:
Dorne retained more of their individual culture than the other 7 kingdoms because Dorne was never actually conquered. They chose to unite under the Iron Throne after the Targaryens had given up chasing them around the desert and having their armies die of thirst and starvation. Thats why they feel so different. Even the north as remote as it is was subjugated and thus forced to adjust to the iron thrones ways. Dorne was never forced into all that.

The issue really comes in the "modern" day. Where book Dorne has a massive army at the ready for Danny when she lands and the entire Kingdom is nowhere to be found in the show even after she landed.

Not in the book I read? I thought they were there for the new male Targayrian GRM is replacing her with?

I didn't really enjoy the Drone bits in the book - on winning the war - dind't they capture a Targaryian Princess after killing her dragon and threatning to keep torturing her if they did not withdraw?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Dorne retained more of their individual culture than the other 7 kingdoms because Dorne was never actually conquered. They chose to unite under the Iron Throne after the Targaryens had given up chasing them around the desert and having their armies die of thirst and starvation. Thats why they feel so different. Even the north as remote as it is was subjugated and thus forced to adjust to the iron thrones ways. Dorne was never forced into all that.

The issue really comes in the "modern" day. Where book Dorne has a massive army at the ready for Danny when she lands and the entire Kingdom is nowhere to be found in the show even after she landed.

Not in the book I read? I thought they were there for the new male Targayrian GRM is replacing her with?

I didn't really enjoy the Drone bits in the book - on winning the war - dind't they capture a Targaryian Princess after killing her dragon and threatning to keep torturing her if they did not withdraw?

They were for whichever targaryen they got. They had one of the sand snakes lined up to marry viserys until they found out his head got gold coated. Then they started setting up the stuff for daeneries. Who if i remember correctly spent a couple days dieing in agony when he tried to chill with the dragons. This new guy they claim is her nephew nobody has any proof of.

As for princess torture, maybe? I dont remember that bit. I just remember that the dragons were ineffective at the war of attrition out there and they pulled a russia and just kept withdrawing while taking or destroying the resources behind them.

I thought the North / House Stark bent the knee out of a sense of pragmatic duty having seen the carnage wrecked elsewhere, which could, at a stretch, count as not conquered ?

 Lance845 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Dorne retained more of their individual culture than the other 7 kingdoms because Dorne was never actually conquered. They chose to unite under the Iron Throne after the Targaryens had given up chasing them around the desert and having their armies die of thirst and starvation. Thats why they feel so different. Even the north as remote as it is was subjugated and thus forced to adjust to the iron thrones ways. Dorne was never forced into all that.

The issue really comes in the "modern" day. Where book Dorne has a massive army at the ready for Danny when she lands and the entire Kingdom is nowhere to be found in the show even after she landed.

Not in the book I read? I thought they were there for the new male Targayrian GRM is replacing her with?

I didn't really enjoy the Drone bits in the book - on winning the war - dind't they capture a Targaryian Princess after killing her dragon and threatning to keep torturing her if they did not withdraw?

They were for whichever targaryen they got. They had one of the sand snakes lined up to marry viserys until they found out his head got gold coated. Then they started setting up the stuff for daeneries. Who if i remember correctly spent a couple days dieing in agony when he tried to chill with the dragons. This new guy they claim is her nephew nobody has any proof of.

As for princess torture, maybe? I dont remember that bit. I just remember that the dragons were ineffective at the war of attrition out there and they pulled a russia and just kept withdrawing while taking or destroying the resources behind them.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rhaenys_Targaryen

First Dornish War

In 4 AC, Aegon I began a new campaign against Dorne. Rhaenys led the first assault on Dorne, seizing castles and burning Planky Town while approaching Sunspear. However, the Dornish lords once again refused to give open battle, and abandoned their seats. When Rhaenys and Aegon eventually reached Sunspear, Princess Meria Martell, as well as most others, had fled. Rhaenys and Aegon gathered the few courtiers and functionaries who had remained behind and, declaring themselves victorious, proclaimed that Dorne fell under the rule of the Iron Throne. Rhaenys and Aegon returned to King's Landing, leaving Lord Rosby as Sunspear's castellan while giving Lord Harlan Tyrell the charge of a host to fight the last revolts. However, they had barely reached the capital when the Dornish revolted with extreme rapidity, leading to the deaths of both Lord Rosby, by the hand of Princess Meria herself, and Lord Tyrell, who vanished in 5 AC[11] with his army while marching to Sunspear to retake the castle. Entire garrisons were put to the sword, and the knights in charge were slowly tortured to death.[12]

The next few years of the war became more and more violent. The Targaryens returned to Dorne to unleash their dragons, and the Dornish responded with fire of their own. In 10 AC, at Hellholt a bolt from a scorpion pierced Meraxes through the eye. The dragon fell from the sky with Rhaenys on its back, destroying half the castle. It is not certain whether Rhaenys outlived Meraxes. There are those who say that Rhaenys lost her seat and fell to her death, while others claim that Rhaenys was crushed to death beneath Meraxes in the castle yard. A few accounts claim that Rhaenys survived the fall and died a slow death, being tortured by the Ullers. Due to the uncertainty about Rhaenys's exact death, history records that she died in 10 AC at Hellholt in Dorne. Her body was never returned to King's Landing

[12] The World of Ice & Fire, Dorne: Dorne Against the Dragons.

Peace treaty

The First Dornish War came to an end in 13 AC, when, following the death of Princess Meria Martell, her elderly son Nymor, now the ruling Prince of Dorne, sent his daughter Deria to King's Landing with an escort as an peace envoy. She brought with her the skull of Rhaenys's dragon Meraxes and a letter from Prince Nymor. The sight of the dragon's skull angered many at the royal court, such as Queen Visenya Targaryen and Lord Orys Baratheon, but Aegon refused to act against the delegation. Instead, Deria was allowed to deliver her father's terms. Prince Nymor wanted peace, but would not submit to the Iron Throne. Aegon was determined to refuse this offer, until Deria handed him her father's letter.[1]

Atop the Iron Throne, Aegon read the message. When he was done, he burned the letter, after which he left for Dragonstone upon Balerion's back. He returned the next morning, agreed to the peace terms of Prince Nymor and signed a treaty. The contents of the letter are unknown, although many have speculated: some believe it said that Rhaenys survived her fall at Hellholt, but was being kept captive in extreme torment, and the Dornish promised to end her suffering Aegon agreed to end the war; others suspect the letter stated that Nymor was willing to spend all of Dorne's gold to hire the Faceless Men of Braavos to assassinate Aegon's young son and heir, Aenys, if Aegon did not sign the peace.[1]

Whatever had been in the letter, the result was an end to the nine-year war.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
I thought the North / House Stark bent the knee out of a sense of pragmatic duty having seen the carnage wrecked elsewhere, which could, at a stretch, count as not conquered ?

Yes and even thought they are more or less what's left of the First Men they still got more integrated into that regime (culture, customs). Dorne got integrated much later, (two centuries later according to this):

The Dornishmen are ethnically distinct from the rest of the Seven Kingdoms, being largely descended from Rhoynar refugees who intermarried with the local population of Andals and First Men roughly a thousand years ago. As a result, they have very different customs and traditions compared to the other regions of Westeros.

Dorne was a sovereign kingdom before the invasion of Aegon the Conqueror, and weathered his attack to remain one afterwards, the only one of the Seven Kingdoms to retain its independence. It joined the Seven Kingdoms through peaceful marriage alliance nearly two centuries later, only one century before Robert's Rebellion. As a result of joining through marriage and not conquest, Dorne was allowed to keep many of its local customs and laws, such as equal inheritance laws for male and female heirs. Due to these different ethnic, legal, and political factors, the Dornishmen are very independently minded, with a stronger sense of "national identity" than many of the other Seven Kingdoms.

Here's the bit about the War of Conquest:

Stand-off with the North and the Vale
House Stark mobilized for war, but upon a demonstration of Aegon's superior forces, King Torrhen Stark bent the knee to save his army from certain destruction. For his submission, Aegon named him Lord Paramount of the North. The Starks thus emerged from the war without actually fighting.

Invasion of Dorne
Aegon's forces made an abortive attempt to conquer Dorne, but the Dornish chose to melt away into the mountains and deserts and pursue guerrilla tactics rather than give open battle, where they would be vulnerable to dragonfire. Aegon eventually decided to allow Dorne to retain its independence, ending the War of Conquest.

Right. Point being that dorne isnt just some kind of tacked on nation thats unique because grrm read some stuff he found interesting. Or at least if that is the case, he built into the history good reasons why dorne retains a different way of life from the rest of the 7 kingdoms. Everyone else was bought under the iron thrones heel and made to follow their rules. Dorne was never defeated.