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Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Been looking over the "Grey Knights Worst Codex ever" and doing some thinking. No tweaks to the actual datasheets, but thinking about some Psychic powers and strategems that may help them. Please let me know what you think (before I try them in some home games).

PSYCHIC POWERS

Mind Storm: Psychic Charge 5; Range 18"; One enemy unit takes 2D3 hits at STR 4 AP 0. If the unit has more than 10 models, it takes 2D6 hits.

Pierce the Veil: Psychic Charge 7 (9 if target is a Character); Range 18”; Target unit loses its invulnerable save until the end of the round.


STRATAGEMS

The Emperor Protects (2 or 4 CP): Select a friendly unit that has been targeted by a Ranged or Melee attack. Models in that unit may roll any Saving Throws against the attack as if it were AP 0. This stratagem costs 2 CP for a friendly unit of up to 5 models and 4 CP for a friendly unit of up to 10 models.

Deep Strike Denied (2 CP): You must have a friendly Intersessor squad deployed on the battlefield (i.e., not in reserve or a transport) to use this stratagem. During the enemy’s Movement Phase, select one enemy unit that has not yet deployed. That unit cannot deploy outside of their deployment zone this turn, and must arrive more than 9” away from any of your units.

Storm of Bolters (1,2 or 3 CP): Nominate a friendly shooting <Infantry> unit. That unit’s Storm bolters gain Rapid Fire 3 (1 CP), Rapid Fire 4 (2 CP) or Rapid Fire 5 (3 CP).

Santic Shells (1 CP): Nominate a friendly shooting unit targeting a <Chaos> unit. That unit’s Storm bolters gain AP -2.

Heretic Hunters (1 CP): At the end of the movement step, select a friendly <Grey Knight> unit and an enemy unit within 9” of the friendly unit. Both units lose any invulnerable save they have until the end of their next turn. If the enemy unit is a Character and the friendly unit is not a character, this stratagem costs 3 CP.

Force Strike (3 or 6 CP): Nominate an <Infantry> unit in close combat. The unit’s Force weapons deal D3 mortal wounds instead of their regular damage. This stratagem costs 3 CP for a unit of up to 5 models, 6 CP for a unit of up to 10 models.

Daemon Hunter Ritual (2 CP): Play this stratagem after deployment but before the first turn. Select one friendly <Grey Knight> unit. For the remainder of the game, whenever the unit removes an enemy model from the board that has an Invulnerable save, roll a D6. On a result of 6, you gain a CP.

Obfuscate (3 CP): Play this stratagem at the start of the enemy’s psychic phase. Choose a friendly unit with the <psyker> keyword that is 1” or more away from an enemy unit. Any enemy units that wish to perform Psychic combat or Ranged combat against the unit suffer a -2 penalty to Psychic Tests/To Hit. Enemy units attempting to charge the chosen unit roll an extra D6 and take the lowest two.


EDIT: Modified Force Strike CP (6/12/18). Added Daemon Hunter Ritual, Obfuscate stratagems.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/06/14 08:22:20


It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Force Strike is bonkers. I don't have real feelings on the other ones though.

The other ammo Strategems they have need to be 1CP though.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Adjusted the CPS on Force Stike, should it go even further to be 1 CP per model?

Any other comments or additions for GK?

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Pierce the Veil should just be WC 8, like Death Hex.

Deep Strike Denied is worded very poorly.

Storm Bolters are already Rapid Fire 2.

Heretic Hunters is too good-select a friendly character who's behind other units, and, say, a mob of 30 Daemons. Now the Daemons have only a 6+ armor, and your character is still immune to shooting.

Force Strike is just bonkers. I'd remove it entirely.

Daemon Hunter Ritual should be per UNIT, not model. Blobs of 30 Lesser Daemons should not be worth 5 CP to you, especially since you want to kill them anyway. Could be on a 5 or 6, though.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Stormonu wrote:
Been looking over the "Grey Knights Worst Codex ever" and doing some thinking. No tweaks to the actual datasheets, but thinking about some Psychic powers and strategems that may help them. Please let me know what you think (before I try them in some home games).

PSYCHIC POWERS

Mind Storm: Psychic Charge 5; Range 18"; One enemy unit takes 2D3 hits at STR 4 AP 0. If the unit has more than 10 models, it takes 2D6 hits. On a psychic test of 10+, the enemy unit takes 2D3 hits at STR 5 AP -1, 2D6 hits if there are more than 10 models.


I like it, but it feels a little wordy. Maybe make it less variable? As in get rid of the "on a test of 10+" part? Remember to up your number of hits against a large squad is easy enough, but having to recalculate the strength and ap as well as the number of hits but only when you roll a certain number (which is different from the number needed to get a super smite) feels slightly overwrought.

Also, I kind of feel like WC 5 may be a little low for this. I realize it's not doing mortal wounds, but you have a higher minimum, average, and maximum damage output against mobs of boyz and gaunts. A smite will average about 2 dead ork boyz with the potential to kill up to 3 (or 6 if you super smite). This power will average 7 hits which will turn into about 3 or 4 dead orks with the potential to kill up to 12. This power also lets you pick your target (which I believe can be a character as it's currently worded) instead of targeting the closest thing. It's pretty comparable to smite against things like marines, but it's somewhat better against its preferred targets.



Pierce the Veil: Psychic Charge 7 (9 if target is a Character); Range 18”; Target unit loses its invulnerable save until the end of the round.

Harlequins say, "Ouch." Is this how Death Hex works? I'd probably just copy Death Hex.


STRATAGEMS

The Emperor Protects (2 CP): Select a friendly unit. Models in that unit may reroll any Saving Throws this phase at AP 0.

Please clarify. Does this reduce the AP of enemy attacks to 0, or does it only allow you to reroll saves against attacks that are already AP 0? Also, you should probably specify when this stratagem is used. Is it when the friendly unit is targeted by a ranged attack? At the start of the Fight phase? Being able to pop this after your opponent has already committed to attacking a unit makes it quite a bit more powerful than if you had to pop it at the start of the phase thus allowing your opponent to just opt not to attack the buffed unit.

Either way, I'm a little worried about how potent this is. If you're saying it lets you reroll saves AND ignore AP, this basically makes one terminator squad all but invulnerable for a phase. Which is pretty lame and frustrating for the opponent that has to deal with it. If it only lets you reroll saves against AP 0 weapons, then it basically makes you immune to small arms fire for a phase. Which also doesn't sound like much fun to play against if you happen to be fielding an army without a great deal of AP at its disposal (I'm picturing a squad of hormagaunts).

I get the impression that this might be less of a big deal in a pure GK list where command points are in short supply and your opponent can opt to focus on a different unit that will also be expensive on a model by model basis. If I wanted to abuse this, however, I'd just take a small GK detachment alongside some guard and maybe something else and use this stratagem to make my GK unkillable for a few turns.

What is the intention of this power? Perhaps you could give it a weakness that can be exploited so that it's more interactive? Maybe change it to "ignore the first d3 damage inflicted on this unit this phase" or something so that your opponent has ways to whittle down the added defenses before hitting you with their main punch?



Deep Strike Denied (2 CP): During the enemy’s Movement Phase, Select a friendly Intersessor squad and roll a D6. On a 1-5, one enemy unit of your choice that has not yet deployed cannot deploy outside of their deployment zone this turn, and must be more than 9” away from any of your units. On a 6, the enemy unit have chosen cannot deploy this turn.


I'd be tempted to drop the d6 roll and just have it always follow the 1-5 result. Post FAQ, we basically only have turns 2 and 3 in which to deepstrike outside of our deployment zone. Basically being forced to wait an extra turn to get your unit into the game is kind of a feelbad rule. Also, there's a small chance that this causes your opponent's unit to never be allowed to show up (a 1 in 36 chance assuming they wait until turn 2 to start trying to show up). It won't happen often, but your opponent will never feel good about your house rule that makes them lose a Blood Thirster before it even hits the table.

Also, as worded, there's no reason to select an intercessor squad other than, I guess, to require there be such a squad in your army for this to work.

Given that you seem to want to tie this to an intercessor squad and that being forced to footslog into the guns of the GKs' allied guard isn't much fun, how about a stratagem that just prevents units arriving from reserves to do so within X" of a selected intercessor squad? Or even all intercessor squads? Let's say X is 12". you've basically prevented enemies from charging out of deepstrike. Let's say X is 18"; you've kept them out of smite range. In both cases, your opponent is still able to more or less start getting his army into position on turn 2, and the fact that your intercessors will cover more area if they take a forward position means that any units he's not deepstriking will be more likely to have the option of engaging your intercessors, thus creating a more engaging set of decisions.

Aside from that I basically agree with JNA's points.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Made some tweaks:

Mind Storm - removed 10+ effect

Emperor Protects - clarified when to use, change from reroll to roll, CP cost based on unit size. Can't be used on units larger than 10 models (say, friendly Conscripts in soup)

Deep Strike Denied - removed d6 roll, cleaned up wording

Storm of Bolters - upped Rapid Fire

Heretic Hunters - restrict to Grey Knight units, reduced range to 9"

Daemon Hunter Ritual - restict to Grey Knight units, affects only 1 unit

Not sure quite what to do with Force Strike - want to keep something that gives something akin to the punch Force weapons had in previous editions and give GK some anti-armor/anti-horde melee punch. Maybe have the Force weapons work like Melta weapons?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and which faction uses Death Hex?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/14 08:33:37


It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Heretic Hunters is STILL too good. Again, pick a friendly character who's behind another squad, or hell, a Strike Squad that's down to, say, three members, and then pick a massive enemy unit.

Daemon Hunter Ritual is still probably too good. Pick a good unit that can remove a lot of models, and bam. Dead. (Plus, it should be noted, units like Skitarii and Ad Mech have invulns.) Again, make it based on UNITS, not models.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

 Stormonu wrote:
Been looking over the "Grey Knights Worst Codex ever" and doing some thinking. No tweaks to the actual datasheets, but thinking about some Psychic powers and strategems that may help them. Please let me know what you think (before I try them in some home games).

PSYCHIC POWERS

Mind Storm: Psychic Charge 5; Range 18"; One enemy unit takes 2D3 hits at STR 4 AP 0. If the unit has more than 10 models, it takes 2D6 hits.

Seems a bit meh to be honest.

Pierce the Veil: Psychic Charge 7 (9 if target is a Character); Range 18”; Target unit loses its invulnerable save until the end of the round.

Not bad, similar to Null Zone, but the range may be a bit much.

STRATAGEMS

The Emperor Protects (2 or 4 CP): Select a friendly unit that has been targeted by a Ranged or Melee attack. Models in that unit may roll any Saving Throws against the attack as if it were AP 0. This stratagem costs 2 CP for a friendly unit of up to 5 models and 4 CP for a friendly unit of up to 10 models.

That's a bit much. It basically turns your guys' saves into Invulnerable saves for a turn. Perhaps instead try "Attacks made against the unit count their Ap as one less than normal (Ap-2 becomes -1, etc)

Deep Strike Denied (2 CP): You must have a friendly Intersessor squad deployed on the battlefield (i.e., not in reserve or a transport) to use this stratagem. During the enemy’s Movement Phase, select one enemy unit that has not yet deployed. That unit cannot deploy outside of their deployment zone this turn, and must arrive more than 9” away from any of your units.

Storm of Bolters (1,2 or 3 CP): Nominate a friendly shooting <Infantry> unit. That unit’s Storm bolters gain Rapid Fire 3 (1 CP), Rapid Fire 4 (2 CP) or Rapid Fire 5 (3 CP).

Rapid Fire 5 is impressive, but is it worth 3CP?

Santic Shells (1 CP): Nominate a friendly shooting unit targeting a <Chaos> unit. That unit’s Storm bolters gain AP -2.

I like it.

Heretic Hunters (1 CP): At the end of the movement step, select a friendly <Grey Knight> unit and an enemy unit within 9” of the friendly unit. Both units lose any invulnerable save they have until the end of their next turn. If the enemy unit is a Character and the friendly unit is not a character, this stratagem costs 3 CP.

Force Strike (3 or 6 CP): Nominate an <Infantry> unit in close combat. The unit’s Force weapons deal D3 mortal wounds instead of their regular damage. This stratagem costs 3 CP for a unit of up to 5 models, 6 CP for a unit of up to 10 models.

D3 Mortals per attack is too much IMO, although it won't be used much if it may cost 6CP

Daemon Hunter Ritual (2 CP): Play this stratagem after deployment but before the first turn. Select one friendly <Grey Knight> unit. For the remainder of the game, whenever the unit removes an enemy model from the board that has an Invulnerable save, roll a D6. On a result of 6, you gain a CP.

I like the concept, but already there's a failing in it, in that it applies to units which have invulns, but aren't Chaos, such as AdMec or Coven DEldar.

Obfuscate (3 CP): Play this stratagem at the start of the enemy’s psychic phase. Choose a friendly unit with the <psyker> keyword that is 1” or more away from an enemy unit. Any enemy units that wish to perform Psychic combat or Ranged combat against the unit suffer a -2 penalty to Psychic Tests/To Hit. Enemy units attempting to charge the chosen unit roll an extra D6 and take the lowest two.


EDIT: Modified Force Strike CP (6/12/18). Added Daemon Hunter Ritual, Obfuscate stratagems.



All in all, there are some good concepts but they need a lot of work. The main drawback is that they're very CP-heavy in an expensive army with usually very few CP.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






I think these suggestions are too outside the scope of what stratagems normally do for any given army.

Typically, stratagems are either translations of units' special abilities from prior editions or fluffy abilities that would otherwise be broken if it was built into the units' datasheet themselves. However, none of your suggested stratagems were things that were available to GK's or in the entire game for that matter. Furthermore, they are way too strong in many cases.

I think a proper GK stratagems should be something like:

HAMMER(HAND) TIME!:
2CP
Use this stratagem during the psychic phase. Select a GREY KNIGHTS PSYKER - when it attempts to manifest Hammerhand, select two eligible units for the psychic power before attempting to manifest it instead of one. Roll once for both units.

SANCTIC BOLTS:
1CP
Use this stratagem during the shooting phase. Select a GREY KNIGHTS INFANTRY. Units with keyword DAEMON cannot take their invulnerable saves against attacks made by this unit.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/06/19 16:32:05


 
   
Made in us
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation



Minnesota

I'm not sure why there's a strategem for Intercessors, a unit not even in the codex. Is there any other strategem that requires units from a different codex to function?
That sounds like a roughly similar concept to warp quake, an old strike squad psychic powers. Why put it on Intercessors rather than Strikes?
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

Talinsin wrote:
I'm not sure why there's a strategem for Intercessors, a unit not even in the codex. Is there any other strategem that requires units from a different codex to function?
That sounds like a roughly similar concept to warp quake, an old strike squad psychic powers. Why put it on Intercessors rather than Strikes?


Probably a mixup with Interceptors, the GK unit with the funky teleporters/jump packs. They had the Warp Quake power in the old book.
   
 
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