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Made in us
Khorne Rhino Driver with Destroyer




England

"Productivity" is really annoying me recently, it's like I'm always bombarded with "If you can't practice a skill for 8 hours a day then you will never be good at it", so I try and practice the skill more which just creates stress because I can't do the same thing for 8 hours straight, and then I compare myself to these people who are so passionate they can do it for 8 hours straight ect, am I just not good enough or am I not seeing this correctly?

"Enter Generic Quote Here" - Someone 
   
Made in gr
Rough Rider with Boomstick




This may not be the best place for it but nevertheless...
Trying very hard for something not immediately tangible (i.e. preparing a lavish meal) is a negative feedback loop.
You (as in the person practicing not the real you) feel bad for insufficient effort which undermines your next try at it.
General advice for this sort of thing applies: if it is mental work take a break doing something intensely physical. I precision is your goal do something to help you unwind.
Also, is this is kinda crucial, a beginner should never compare himself to masters in the opening stages of his practice. He should set personal goals and only after he clears these should he go for the masters.

You shouldn't be worried about the one bullet with your name on it, Boldric. You should be worried about the ones labelled "to whom it may concern"-from Blackadder goes Forth!
 
   
Made in ca
Junior Officer with Laspistol





London, Ontario

If you're working at a hobby, you're putting effort into something you enjoy. When you are no longer enjoying it, take a break.

On a good day, I might put 4 hours into painting, but that is very rare. I've got other stuff to do! So don't beat yourself up over it. You have the rest of your life to paint your minis.

If this is a job that pays your bills? That is a bummer. Suck it up, Buttercup.
   
Made in us
Khorne Rhino Driver with Destroyer




England

 greatbigtree wrote:
If you're working at a hobby, you're putting effort into something you enjoy. When you are no longer enjoying it, take a break.

On a good day, I might put 4 hours into painting, but that is very rare. I've got other stuff to do! So don't beat yourself up over it. You have the rest of your life to paint your minis.

If this is a job that pays your bills? That is a bummer. Suck it up, Buttercup.

Nah nah it ain't a job lol, if I am forced to do something I can do it fine, it's just in my spare time lol

"Enter Generic Quote Here" - Someone 
   
Made in ca
Junior Officer with Laspistol





London, Ontario

Well then enjoy your spare time. Nobody gets a medal for a fully painted army. I mean, unless you're entering painting competitions in which case that's kind of the point, I guess.

But assuming it's just for the joy of having painted minis, then slower production just puts that reward a little further into the future. It still comes, it's just further out.

And then you start the next project...
   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





ShadowPug wrote:
"Productivity" is really annoying me recently, it's like I'm always bombarded with "If you can't practice a skill for 8 hours a day then you will never be good at it", so I try and practice the skill more which just creates stress because I can't do the same thing for 8 hours straight, and then I compare myself to these people who are so passionate they can do it for 8 hours straight ect, am I just not good enough or am I not seeing this correctly?


You're looking at it from exactly opposite perspective than you should - it is true estimate, that "being good at something" takes about 10.000 hours of doing it. But doing it 8hrs straight vs 15 minutes a day everyday just moves the finish line further in time. And with hobbies you are pretty much always going for the long run. I managed to do a whole lot of different things in my life by not expecting results the next day. Some, like traditional photography, required long sessions every now and then (dark room sessions last as long as developer is fresh, 16 hrs is a norm). Some, like concertina playing, are better practiced by 15 minutes a day but as closely to everyday as possible. Passions grow with time, the better you'll be at something and more proud of your results the easier it will be to spend more time at it. Or if not, then you'll realize, that it isn't your thing to do altogether and you'll move to some next thing. Don't force yourself but instead "go with the flow". In the end, if you spend enough total time on something you'll have a feeling of achievement to be proud of and it doesn't really matter if that'll be in a year or ten years time.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

If I don’t put a solid 8 hours into spamming any and all Rachael Ray discussions on all forums everywhere about the dangers of cooking in high heels, I don’t feel like a man.

#NeverAgain #SaveTheAnkles

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





I can’t paint for more than an hour. My eyes go squiffy and my hand hurts too much after that. Ultimately a hobby should be about the joy you get not the end result. If your aim is to with a golden deamon then sure, you need to put in that time. If your aim is to enjoy painting then you don’t. You will just resent it.

As said it also depends on the hobby. I can paint for an hour max. Running I have had enough after half an hour. Cycling or riding my motorbike I can go all day.

 insaniak wrote:
Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 kronk wrote:
If I don’t put a solid 8 hours into spamming any and all Rachael Ray discussions on all forums everywhere about the dangers of cooking in high heels, I don’t feel like a man.

#NeverAgain #SaveTheAnkles


There can't possibly be that much Rachael Ray discussion anymore.

   
Made in us
Cackling Daemonic Dreadnought of Tzeentch




Ellenton, Florida

@OP: It may help to know, at least generally speaking, what the skill is which you are trying to master.
Different disciplines require different practice modalities in order to maximize results.

Armies:  
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






nou wrote:

You're looking at it from exactly opposite perspective than you should - it is true estimate, that "being good at something" takes about 10.000 hours of doing it.


I hate this phrase, because it doesn't define what GOOD AT means.

For example, reaching a tabletop standard isn't something that takes 10000 hours of practice. Golden Demon standard, maybe, but the vast majority of painters/players never reach that level.


   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





 John Prins wrote:
nou wrote:

You're looking at it from exactly opposite perspective than you should - it is true estimate, that "being good at something" takes about 10.000 hours of doing it.


I hate this phrase, because it doesn't define what GOOD AT means.

For example, reaching a tabletop standard isn't something that takes 10000 hours of practice. Golden Demon standard, maybe, but the vast majority of painters/players never reach that level.



Tabletop standard is... standard. It is not "being good at". It's being decent. You can pretty much paint your first or second mini to tabletop standard if you have watched some explanatory videos, have necessary tools and paints, and you are patient and precise. 10000 hours mark usually means, that there is either very little to learn/improve further or that you reach professional efficiency at something. And it's almost universally true - it is an equivalent of 5 years full time job.
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






nou wrote:


Tabletop standard is... standard.


For commission painters. IOW it's the bottom tier of what a professional is willing to attach his name to. Obviously the definition of tabletop standard* will vary from person to person, but when I see a tabletop standard paint job, I think 'good painter' - not great, not professional, but good. I respect the work that's gone into it.

*and the word 'good'.

Telling people they need 10000 hours to 'get good' at something isn't at all helpful, it's just discouraging. You were absolutely correct on the need to be patient and precise, and I think those two elements are what cause people to struggle with their painting. In general, people who are already patient and precise tend to become good (or better) painters very quickly indeed.

   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





 John Prins wrote:
nou wrote:


Tabletop standard is... standard.


For commission painters. IOW it's the bottom tier of what a professional is willing to attach his name to. Obviously the definition of tabletop standard* will vary from person to person, but when I see a tabletop standard paint job, I think 'good painter' - not great, not professional, but good. I respect the work that's gone into it.

*and the word 'good'.

Telling people they need 10000 hours to 'get good' at something isn't at all helpful, it's just discouraging. You were absolutely correct on the need to be patient and precise, and I think those two elements are what cause people to struggle with their painting. In general, people who are already patient and precise tend to become good (or better) painters very quickly indeed.


Ok, I think I see where this misunderstanding originates from. I was directly replying to OP based on this quote: "if you can't practice a skill for 8 hours a day then you will never be good at it". If a skill requires an 8hrs a day practice to be good at it falls under 10000 hrs rule and "good" in this context sounds like "Golden Deamon" level. Simple. In such context accepting the simple fact, that those 10000 hrs can take 5 years or 25 years to complete is in fact helpful (speaking from personal teaching experience, it is usually liberating for new apprentices to get to know this, as well as learning about how much time and work exactly any particular jaw dropping mini/painting took). This is because nowadays you can scroll through literal tens of thousands of manhours of work with one small search on Pinterest and become discouraged if you're not able to replicate all those effects in what beginner can think as reasonable time. I'm graphic designer by trade and I often deal with projects that take 300-500 hours to complete. My single, most time consuming photograph took me nearly 300 hours to make props for, build a stage, take the shot, develop it and prepare for display... If people compare their work to what they are inspired by and don't know how much effort that thing took, they can very easily end up giving up/feeling inadequate/not gifted enough... This was the context of my initial reply.

You on the other hand, took different definitions of both "skill" and "good". And I totally agree, that not EVERY new skill requires that much work. A skill of assembling plastic minis by the numbers requires only basic dexterity (which itself took thousands of hours during childhood, but it is not something new to learn when you decide to buy your first box of minis), glue and a decent modeling knife. A skill of painting a decent miniature also requires only a couple of things - proper tools, proper paints and a bit of knowledge easily foundable on the internet. My wife painted her first ever squad of gaunts to tabletop standard without any prior experience with miniature painting because "it is not all that different from applying makeup" (her own words) or painting nails. It is perfectly doable from the very start if only you use tools and paints adequate for the job and have someone you can ask a couple of questions. And from what I can see in OP gallery, he is already good enough for that level of being subjectively good and I'm in no way trying to discourage anyone.

I hope this helped separating different levels of discussion.
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Ah, the old 10,000 hour rule. Not only is it, at best, a rule of thumb, it's also meant to signify the amount of work that a person with the appropriate amount of natural talent needs to put into practice to become an expert.

So, if you have the natural skill to be a minis painter, 10,000 hours of practice would be required to become an "expert." Given that I've seen many high quality pro painters who've only been painting minis for a few years, 10,000 hours of practice is beyond even display quality, but likely closer to competition wining level. Keep in mind that 10,000 hours is roughly five years of eight hour days.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
kronk wrote:If I don’t put a solid 8 hours into spamming any and all Rachael Ray discussions on all forums everywhere about the dangers of cooking in high heels, I don’t feel like a man.

#NeverAgain #SaveTheAnkles


There is nothing wrong with a little glamour.

BobtheInquisitor wrote:

There can't possibly be that much Rachael Ray discussion anymore.


You shut your mouth. She's all anybody should be discussing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/17 15:59:12


 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





One thing to remember is the more you do something you not only increase your skill, you also increase your ability to perform that skill for longer. When you first start something every part of it is new and every part of it takes concentration and effort. With some experience you will still be a long way from mastery, but lots of tasks won't require your full concentration. Once you're used to parts of the task you it will be more natural, and you'll learn which parts require your full concentration and which can be done while you're thinking about other tihngs.

So something that was exhausting after an hour can become effortless for eight hours, once you've done it long enough.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
 
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