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Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle






So I haven’t played much in 8th but I’d like to jump back in with knights.
I already have a Knight lancer painted and 2 regular knights with chain swords on one arm and the battle cannon / thermal cannon magnetized on the other.
Looking to spend 300 or so including Codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/18 05:48:28


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





So you've got a Lancer, a Paladin and a Warden so far. Very good start!

A real easy way to get back in would be to get the Renegade set for 2 more knights. You can easily build just about any combination of knights with that, since it contains 1 fist, 1 gatling cannon, 2 chainswords, 2 battle cannons, and 2 thermal cannons.

However, since you already have 2 questoris, getting 2 more might be overkill. Instead, you could get a pack of Armigers of either kind. That's only 75, which gives you plenty of space to get the codex and all the accessories with money left to spare.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Paladin and/or errant actually. Warden has avenger cannon which he doesn't have.

Don't think renegade is overkill especially as he has 2 of the weaker variants ATM. Errant is okay, paladin so-so. Renegade would give him access to crusader or warden and maybe gallant. Also the box is a steal and likely goes OOP eventually.

Renegade+codex and maybe box of helverins or warglaives. Would be 10$ over budget but really if he ever wants more questor chassis(which he should especially as his 2 aren't full versions with options for all) better get renegade while it's still on sale.

I have 4(one fixed errant and 3 knights with 2 full sprue for magnetized weapons) and considering to get another renegade. Def would want 3rd avenger cannon and the renegade is such a steal better get it than single warden knight box.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle






Alright, renegade box it is.
Correct me if I’m wrong but my knights can be used as paladins or wardens correct? I just don’t have carapace weapons to give them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/18 14:06:49


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Paladins(battlecannon) or errant(thermal cannon). Warden has avenger gatling cannon

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Do yourself a favor, get 200 points of guard

Commander
Commisar
Guards men with heavy mortar x3

Make the and your Warlord, take the artifact and triat that let's you roll a dice for each CP you spend, and roll a dice for each command used by your opponant.

That way you get an easy +5 CP and can use them on your knights.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard





Since you already have 3 big knights, I'd say get some armiger class as support. Both are good and fill different roles. Helverin is a good generalist with its shooting but is vulnerable to being locked/charged thus losing more shooting. Warglaive is more polarized in its targets. Shooting it wants to kill vehicles/monsters, CC it can either finish off a vehicle with a few wounds left or, if it has support, move into clearing out chaff with sweeps. Pure knight armies are almost always going to have extra points laying around, so IMO there is no reason not to swap for meltaguns on Warglaives
Past that, most of the forgeworld knights, save the magaera, are good at what they do expecially with household traits. Not every knight meshes well with every house, and some get just silly (House Raven Achaeron lol). I've used most of the knights in a few games pre-codex, (excluding magaera)

Here is a quick analasys of the big knights. Aside from the exceptions noted, I've used each at least twice.
Questoris Knights
Paladin (CCW/Battlecannon) - good generalist. Always have it fire last though, as the best use of the RFBC is finishing off targets weakened by the more specialist weapons.
Errant (CCW/Thermal Cannon) - Absolutely murders big nasties. Always target vehicles/monsters whenever possible. Failing that, go for multi-wound elite units like aggressors.
Warden - Infantry killer. It performs ok against vehicles in a pinch, but the gatling cannon should be pointed at infantry units whenever possible.
Gallent - Melee dude. This is going to get shot at a lot. Once they see what all those stomps/swords/fists. Avoid things with hammers/stormshields unless you gave it the sanctuary relic.
Crusader - Dakkaman. Solid, but pricier than the rest. I prefer the RFBC over the thermal personally.
Styrix - Hard-to-kill generalist. The siege claw comes with a murderous autohit weapon that makes nids go home and cry. The volkite gun performs well against most targets. Fun with the Griffith stratagem for exploding shots on 5+ against big things
Magaera - Overpriced garbage. Don't bother. Sad because it has a gun that shoots lightning. I'd give it a shot if it were 350 points with the Hekaton claw. Until it gets a substantial buff and price cut dont bother. No, really.
Preceptor - Haven't used this yet. I'm planning on proxying one in the next week or so. The gun may seems a bit odd, until you realise each profile is tailored for what Armiger type it happens to be buffing. I'm not sure the multilaser will ever be better than the stubber though. Ironhail can be good if you have lots of popguns.

Dominus* I haven't used either yet, so these are my suppositions. My FLGS only got 1 of each... neither of which got into my hands
Castellan - A bigger, meaner Crusader. WILL get focused out. Plasma is about on par with the RFBC as a generalist weapon, and the volcano lance is murder to basically anything. The shoulder cannons are brutal though. I have a decent size scion force and the taurox battle cannon (which has an identical profile) always does good work. Missiles seem... iffy to me. Wont know till I use it.
Valiant - Trollmeister supreme. This is your anti-[anything with to-hit modifier shenanigans]. As we all know, the best way to defeat an agile aircraft moving at supersonic speeds is to shoot a flamethrower at it. The harpoon looks like a meme to me, but hey when it actually hits something with 11 wounds... hooray I guess?

Cerastus
Lancer - Melee Awesome. This is a threat to anything and everything in CC. Fast, hard hitting, good invulnerable save. The gun is good for softening a target a bit before charging, or for hitting nearby elites for some shooting collateral. Good candidate for your warlord. Imperialis I like Helm of Nameless Warrior, Mechanicus Mark of Omnissia (this thing is so good on any Cerastus)
Acheron - Anti-[hit shenanigan]. The flame cannon is deadly. The twin heavy bolter is ok for killing a couple mooks. The chainfist is a thunderstrike gauntlet in all but name unfortunately. No thematically pinning guilliman to the ground and tearing him multiple new ones.
Atrapos - The Master. This thing is amazing. No other way about it. If you have the cash, get one. It was good before traditions and stratagems. It's even better now.
Castagitor - Warden's speedier cousin. Anti-infantry shooting with some interesting quirks on the sword.

Porphyron* Yet another I haven't used yet. Thing is huge, and I don't have anything in its weight class to stand in for it. But I guess it'll perform a similar duty to the Castellan. Being a big scary distraction bristling with ordnance. Once of these with House Krast will cause biblical floods of tears to be shed from others with superheavies. 6d3 s12 ap-3 dam7(8 vs titanic) plus either two damage 3 autocannons/damage d6+1 lascannons will annihilate almost anything you point it at. Plus, due to a loophole in the codex, Rotate Ion Shields only costs 1 CP to give this monster a 4++(3++ if you gave it the Ion Bulwark trait)

If you want to have allied forces, I'd actually recommend against the ever present bare-bones AM 2x commander + 3x infantry squad blandness. If you're Imperialis go for scions, and either leave them with lasguns or take volleyguns. Knights excel at killing medium to large targets but have some issue against chaff. Scions with their spiffy stormtroopers doctrine mow through chaff like nothing. As for Mechanicus houses, Rangers and Vanguard are likewise good at clearing chaff with their high RoF or decent range. Plus there are a number of stratagems from the AdMech codex that can really help you out. If all you're after is CP I'd still say AdMech is better for you in the long run than guard. The synergies you get between Knights and Mechanicus are significant enough, plus I belive the Graia relic gets you another CP, as well as there being a "get CP on x+" warlord trait. Biggest thing is keeping your knights alive longer here. Being able to get a wound or two back (with the proper WLT) for a measly 50 points is fantastic. Plus, they do actively benefit from the magic shrine of Knightlyness.

   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






If you want memes, run house terryen or what ever it's called run a gallet with the ion shield, and 2+ aromor and just run him forward, advancing on 2d6 take the highest and charging on a 3d6 twke the 2 highest, with full tilt strat. In a Dawn of war deployment you can have a gallent in their face turn one.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Backspacehacker wrote:
If you want memes, run house terryen or what ever it's called run a gallet with the ion shield, and 2+ aromor and just run him forward, advancing on 2d6 take the highest and charging on a 3d6 twke the 2 highest, with full tilt strat. In a Dawn of war deployment you can have a gallent in their face turn one.


Average isn't going to be much better than 26-27". 12", average about 4.5" advance. Not sure what 3d6 pick 2 highest but let's say 10" for generous(unlikely that big. 2d6 pick highest is extra inch) so 26.5".

Enemy can make that unlikely to succeed and even if you succeed remember you will have to charge whatever he put on front. Cheap chaff at front and you charge that. Knights can fall back over nfantry but not move or charge. Thus T1 charge won't be against anything worthwhile leaving yourself exposed and unsupported.

T1 charge with gallant is more of a trap.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






In a Dawn of war deployment it's easy.

Also don't forget there are rerolls for charges. You only need 24. Odds are your opponant is going to put up on the line so you only need to make it 24.

But getting him in turn one is not the main point of him that's just the icing. You have a gallent who gwruntee will get in turn 2 probably less then 12" away from your opponent. You now force your opponant to deal with a gallant who has a 2+ armor save and a 4++ that can turn into a 3++ for 1cp. The choice then isnto divert all power to killing the gallent, leaving all your shooting stuff until touched, or have a gallent in their lines turn 2. Either of with is a crappy situation because trying to kill a 24 t8 3++ unit is not easy

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Backspacehacker wrote:
In a Dawn of war deployment it's easy.

Also don't forget there are rerolls for charges. You only need 24. Odds are your opponant is going to put up on the line so you only need to make it 24.

But getting him in turn one is not the main point of him that's just the icing. You have a gallent who gwruntee will get in turn 2 probably less then 12" away from your opponent. You now force your opponant to deal with a gallant who has a 2+ armor save and a 4++ that can turn into a 3++ for 1cp. The choice then isnto divert all power to killing the gallent, leaving all your shooting stuff until touched, or have a gallent in their lines turn 2. Either of with is a crappy situation because trying to kill a 24 t8 3++ unit is not easy


Dawn of war has minimum deployment 24". Thus it's dirt easy for opponent to deploy bit back to ensure you are looking at having to roll above averages.

Opponent KNOWS how far you will have average charge range. Why on earth he would put close enough to make it easy for you to charge? I never make plan that requires opponent to deploy like an idiot. And as said even if you somehow manage the charge it will be against cheap chaff. Actually I take it back. He might just deploy 24" as he WANTS you to charge and isolate your knight from rest of the army. Losing 40 pts infantry squad is cheap tradeoff for the knight.

Oh and both 2+ and 4++ on same is waste. Anything that's seriously threatening knight has -2 or better AP so 2+ armour is useless when you have 4++.

And btw things he can do to deal with that. You pop in 3++, he'll switch to other knights who now have the 5++. Meanwhile the gallant middle of his army will be surrounded with cheap chaff resulting in him unable to attack anything but that chaff(remember you won't be able to move over them). And of course middle of his army you'll be facing any melta weapon he might have plus counter charge units while rest of your army is far away.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/18 21:56:19


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

As StarHunter 25 I would recommend you agaisnt the 180 Imperial Guard batallion... and I'll recomemend you a Adeptus Mechanicus one. 15 skitarii, 2 tech priests, only a couple of points more, if you are using Mechanicus aligned knights, enjoy those wounds back. The Skitarii can still camp objetives without a problem.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

If the whole reason you are using a Mechanicus detachment is for the repairs, you can just take Enginseers in your Imperial Guard as elites.

They're also 10 points cheaper for the exact same thing because reasons.

Also the 10 man guard squads will be about 2x as survivable as the 5 man skitarii squads.

And it will give you valuable valuable command points recycling which are particularly precious for your knights.

47 - admech enginseer
47 - admech enginseer
35 - 5 rangers
35 - 5 rangers
35 - 5 rangers
199p 5 command points and no possibility of more

30 - guard commander
30 - guard commander
37 - guard enginseer
(37 - guard enginseer optional)
40 - 10 guardsmen
40 - 10 guardsmen
40 - 10 guardsmen
217p (or 254) 5 command points plus realistically 5-8 more free command points

Sure, you only have one enginseer here, but you can add a second and third if you want for a minor amount more points.

Would you pay 18 (or 55) points more, to make your troops choices twice as resilient, have them gain orders so they actually have MORE firepower than the admech, still have the repair ability, and gain an extra bare minimum of 3 refunded command points from yourself and at least a few from your opponent?

55 points for 5 command points sounds like an awesome deal to me. Then you get stronger, more resilient troops, more flexibility with orders, the exact same repair ability, and the potential for getting as much as 8-10 command points refunded?

Seems like a real no-brianer to me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/18 22:21:03


ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

I absolutely forgot that enginseer where also in the AM book... and cheaper?! Yeah. Go with the AM one

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Hanford, CA, AKA The Eye of Terror

Personally Id say buy a dominus of choice then nab some Heliverins, you have everything you need then some. Maybe a perceptor down the line to buff up those Helverins.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/19 00:38:55


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"Remember, Orks are weak and cowardly, they are easily beat in close combat and their tusks, while menacing, can easily be pulled out with a sharp tug"

-Imperial Guard Uplifting Primer 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 ph34r wrote:
If the whole reason you are using a Mechanicus detachment is for the repairs, you can just take Enginseers in your Imperial Guard as elites.

They're also 10 points cheaper for the exact same thing because reasons.


Well with knights you can then get various benefits. Like reroll 1's to hit once per game(or more if you feel like rolling dice) etc if you have ad mech guys.

Also the 10 man guard squads will be about 2x as survivable as the 5 man skitarii squads.


Umm no even without 6++ 2x5 is tougher than 1x10. Albeit more bodies but that's by having more bodies period. Not because of squad size. Smaller squad=tougher unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/19 06:48:38


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Hard-Wired Sentinel Pilot





tneva82 wrote:


Well with knights you can then get various benefits. Like reroll 1's to hit once per game(or more if you feel like rolling dice) etc if you have ad mech guys.



RAW, this isn't quite true right now, or is at the very least something being widely debated. Strictly, Canticles only work if 'Every unit in the detachment has the rule'. Knight of the Cog which allows Canticles to work on Knights, only affects a single Knight.

The argument then is that while you certainly could use this rule on a solo Knight taken in an auxiliary detachment, RAW it doesn't work on a Knight in a Lance, because the other units in the Lance don't possess the Canticles rule.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





StrayIight wrote:
tneva82 wrote:


Well with knights you can then get various benefits. Like reroll 1's to hit once per game(or more if you feel like rolling dice) etc if you have ad mech guys.



RAW, this isn't quite true right now, or is at the very least something being widely debated. Strictly, Canticles only work if 'Every unit in the detachment has the rule'. Knight of the Cog which allows Canticles to work on Knights, only affects a single Knight.

The argument then is that while you certainly could use this rule on a solo Knight taken in an auxiliary detachment, RAW it doesn't work on a Knight in a Lance, because the other units in the Lance don't possess the Canticles rule.


Except since strategem specifically says so wouldn't that override...Special rules have habit of breaking basic rules.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

tneva82 wrote:
 ph34r wrote:
If the whole reason you are using a Mechanicus detachment is for the repairs, you can just take Enginseers in your Imperial Guard as elites.

They're also 10 points cheaper for the exact same thing because reasons.


Well with knights you can then get various benefits. Like reroll 1's to hit once per game(or more if you feel like rolling dice) etc if you have ad mech guys.

Also the 10 man guard squads will be about 2x as survivable as the 5 man skitarii squads.


Umm no even without 6++ 2x5 is tougher than 1x10. Albeit more bodies but that's by having more bodies period. Not because of squad size. Smaller squad=tougher unit.

Yeah 2x5 is stronger than 1x10 but thats not the comparison... its 3x5 vs 3x10

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/19 10:28:12


ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






tneva82 wrote:
StrayIight wrote:
tneva82 wrote:


Well with knights you can then get various benefits. Like reroll 1's to hit once per game(or more if you feel like rolling dice) etc if you have ad mech guys.



RAW, this isn't quite true right now, or is at the very least something being widely debated. Strictly, Canticles only work if 'Every unit in the detachment has the rule'. Knight of the Cog which allows Canticles to work on Knights, only affects a single Knight.

The argument then is that while you certainly could use this rule on a solo Knight taken in an auxiliary detachment, RAW it doesn't work on a Knight in a Lance, because the other units in the Lance don't possess the Canticles rule.


Except since strategem specifically says so wouldn't that override...Special rules have habit of breaking basic rules.


No it doesn't.

The knight of the Cog says that the single knight within range of an Admech character gains the Canticles of the Omnissiah Ability. As in it ads those words to its Abilities portion on its datasheet.

Also Guard Engineseers are only 5 points cheaper" coming in at 42 points

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