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Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver



York, PA USA

I am posting this here because I often see people mentioning high shipping costs when buying things. One of the major reasons for high shipping costs that some countries pay is that they are subsidizing the shipping for other countries. And the system is being exploited to the extent that it is not achieving the purpose it was created to do. It might actually be doing the opposite.

One thing it does do is increase your costs to buy everything via postal services. I fully expect to see the usual angry responses about "who cares? I want cheap stuff!" That is not the point of what is happening. The point is that sellers from Australia, the UK, and US are forced to subsidize online sellers from the countries determined by the United Nations. It is a major competitive disadvantage. So if you think online shopping is hurting retail, the next step is online shopping from developing countries dominating the market.

Here is a section from my blog-



In 2010 the US entered in to an agreement to foster greater economic opportunity for developing countries around the world. The idea was someone weaving baskets in the rain forest would be able to sell online and get preferred shipping rates. These are really good rates. A 4.4 pound package costs around $6 to ship globally. In comparison my international shipping has gotten to the point that an order of 2 packs of bases costs $22.50 to ship. International sales have vanished.



"They did not say you couldn't".



Well, among the places that signed up as "emerging" economies are Hong Kong and China. The result has been more and more sellers on Ebay and Amazon offering direct shipments to buyers with free shipping or extremely low cost shipping. The USPS is required by treaty to deliver the packages and eat any loss. Except they can not keep losing money so they have to raise rates on domestic shippers. It does not take a PHD to see where this is heading.



"They did not say you couldn't".



And it is even more interesting. Smaller items frequently weight much less than 4.4 pounds. SO they are compiled in to bundles and shipped. Once they reach the US that bundle is torn open and poured in to the USPS system. And if you look at an average package of a single base weighing 3 ounces, a 4.4 pound package could contain 20 or more of those smaller packages.



So imagine 20 of my packages shipped in one of these small bundles for $6, or me shipping 20 packages domestically at $3.50 each. The difference is a lot. I may get some discounts depending on my feedback and seller rating-but the standard starting rate is $3.50 and they are paying $.30.



"They did not say you couldn't".



So I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how people are coping with this. For a lot of E-bay sellers there is no solution. Just go out of business. They were doomed. Others are trying to make unique items. However, there are several stories about people simply having their products copied and sold alongside of the US based seller. For much less with free shipping.



"They didn't say you couldn't."



So here is a solution that seems to work, from another online seller.



"As an online merchant here in North America I have to send my inventory to a warehouse in China just to send it back the US. Costs me $15 which excludes labor to pick, pack, package and label to send the same packet down my street and only less than a $1 to have them pick, pack, package and label and ship from China. This basically means e-commerce in North America is as good as dead ! They also have compiled shipping which an alien concept for online merchants here in North America. Let say if you buy something on eBay or Amazon that weighs less than 1LBS, but you are still being charged the flat rate for 2.2lbs as you pay individual shipping to individual sellers which carriers like DHL, Fedex and UPS benefit. Not so in China they have warehouses and services that let you compiled all your purchases from different sellers until it reaches 2.2lbs before you authorize them to ship ...this is an awesome advantage that they have ! I am sure that the item you bought from eBay is from one of these service warehouses"

So an American company is shipping stuff around the word twice just to take advantage of this E-packet treaty. You know something is wrong when you have to go to such lengths to deal with a government policy.



some resources-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7r7nJZL41A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqIX2u9iA2s

https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/11/05/how-the-usps-epacket-gives-postal-subsidies-to-chinese-e-commerce-merchants-to-ship-to-the-usa-cheap/#fdcc1ac40ca1


   
Made in gb
Stitch Counter






Rowlands Gill

That explains a lot! Thanks.

I wonder if the UK has a similar policy as I've noticed our postage rates on ebay doing something similar - stupidly, ridiculously. cheap from China and Hong Kong and stupidly expensive from everywhere else!

Cheers
Paul 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




This is really interesting. I like the idea at core, but if China is somehow considered 'developing', there needs to be a re-calibration of which countries are afforded the subsidy.
   
Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver



York, PA USA

Yes I think so. The rates were set by a UN organization. From what I understand Australia is being heavily taken over by direct sellers from China, and the UK may as well. The real damage is the costs our own services have to charge us to offset the massive losses. I am fine with whoever selling wherever. But this policy is not very good for some people.

This is the classic example of unintended consequences. When I read about the guy shipping form the US to China just to save money by shipping back..............I knew this was worse than I thought.

I watched one video where these 2 Americans were standing in a street in China actually laughing about how much of an advantage they had. They were 100% assured they could destroy any competition worldwide. Very sobering.

And the policy is actually a noble cause. It just is being used by people who should not be using it, at least IMHO.
   
Made in us
Nimble Skeleton Charioteer





I’ve certainly been affected by this handout nonsense. Amazon “free” shipping is another killer.

I used to do a reasonable side thing with eBay, but shipping is out of hand these days and it really hurts sales.

I’ve got a bunch of the old WHFB 5th edition box sets like battle magic, arcane magic, etc I would like to sell. But it’s going to cost me around $17 each in shipping! AND eBay charges 10% on the shipping charges as well as the sales price. So I have to mark the shipping costs up even more just so I don’t lose money on shipping. And people still accuse you of ‘ripping them off’, and threaten you with negative feedback.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





TN/AL/MS state line.

It boggles the mind to see postal services abused like that. Hopefully something will be done soon.

Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.

40k- The Kumunga Swarm (more)
Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow (less)

Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





This has been going on worldwide with trade for decades, just look at farming subsidies some countries receive, whilst others struggle to match it but with much higher overheads

I've been playing a while, my first model was a lead marine and my first White Dwarf was bound with staples 
   
Made in de
Primus





Palmerston North

I was thinking the Chinese government was subsidising the shipping themselves as the shipping prices from China/Hong Kong to Germany are ridiculously low.

If this is all true, it seems like more support for 'race to the bottom' economics as it stands.
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

I mean, it's crappy for those affected negatively sure, but why is this kind of thing only suddenly a problem for people when it's the UK, USA, and Oz who're affected?

We(or rather, the people in charge of our political and financial systems, but hardly with great opposition) crafted the global marketplace. We established the precedent for these kinds of inequitous trade deals and industrial subsidies. We encouraged the growth of online and international commerce. We used international institutions to craft a trade system to our benefit.

But now when it bites us on the arse because people can buy things cheaper elsewhere, or when other countries use international organisations to tilt the balance in their favour, or when objections to their unfair trade policies are met with raised eyebrows and fingers pointed at everything gakky we've been doing from the Colonialist era all the way up through the modern day when emerging and developing economies are paying the biggest price for the climate change resulting from our overindustry, we're surprised and/or outraged?

If this kind of thing is going to be addressed, the absolute very first thing people have to do is clamber down off their lovely shining high horse and discuss it in the context of the whole history of the global economy, not just the last ten years or so. Delving right into indignation or, as some have advocated of late, a return to protectionism won't get anyone anywhere.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/20 11:23:24


I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





It's just awful when people do to us what we've been doing to them for centuries.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





It does suck, but as with many things - if you design something poorly and people abuse it..."legally", then the fault does fall on the designer of said poorly designed product/treaty/law/method.

The US has been eating international shipping costs for a long time, and it has gotten worse lately.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Fact is that if you're producing something that can also be made at 1/10th the cost in China then you'll be getting undercut regardless of the shipping costs. The value add that your business provides needs to be more than what they can do.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

Personally I hope to pay RAI on postage for this one.
   
 
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