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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Me and my friend, who play Blood Angels, where talking about the start collecting boxes and which one is the best and I was wondering which one you guys this is the best
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






I was under the impression that the Guard box was the best value, and Orks was good value too. I could be wrong though.
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




The Tau one is pretty great. Only held back by Crisis suits being, uh, less than ideal in 8th edition.
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






Nurgle Daemons is pretty crazy good, and Tzeentch Daemons can get you about double the value.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Iowa

Probably best for the value would be Militarum Tempestus.

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





 BaconCatBug wrote:
I was under the impression that the Guard box was the best value, and Orks was good value too. I could be wrong though.


I wouldn't say the IG box is of that great a value. You get a tank, a squad of infantry, a single weapons base, and a Commissar.

The Necrons one comes with Warriors, Immortals, 2 Overlords, Scarabs, and an Annihilation Barge. The Tau one comes with 8 Drones, 3 Suits, some Fire Warriors and an Ethereal.

If you want to start a Guard army, I'd recommend the Defense Force set, which is, IMO a better start. It actually gets you something remotely playable, while the Start Collecting box gets you a total of like 250 points. We've been able to work 500 points out of most of the other Start Collecting boxes, or at least playable armies, the IG box isn't that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
meleti wrote:
The Tau one is pretty great. Only held back by Crisis suits being, uh, less than ideal in 8th edition.


You can make them Commanders, though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/21 00:11:42


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

You can make them Commanders, though.

You can, but the best Commander is probably the Coldstar (which is another kit) and for 4 points you get 1 extra wound on the Enforcer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/21 00:16:24


 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant






Money wise, for 40k the Mechanicus box is the best deal (Onager $66, Skitarii $40, Techpriest $30) and for AoS it's Seraphon (Carnasaur is $85)


 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





Ork is pretty good if you want the deff dread, which is meh right now...


Do you still get all the bits and sprues for each included kit with the start collecting boxes or is it stripped down?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
You never know when that leman russ will punch you back

 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





you get all the bits and pieces. at least you do in the space wolf box I bought a month ago

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

Betrayal at Calth. You get a better Dreadnought, enough characters and troops for a batallion, some terminators too.

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




 AUGmaniac wrote:
Money wise, for 40k the Mechanicus box is the best deal (Onager $66, Skitarii $40, Techpriest $30) and for AoS it's Seraphon (Carnasaur is $85)

Both the Tau and AM boxes add up to $141 USD, as it so happens! Good values there.
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






 Billagio wrote:
Ork is pretty good if you want the deff dread, which is meh right now...


Do you still get all the bits and sprues for each included kit with the start collecting boxes or is it stripped down?

All of the are the full, normal sprues.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Scion one is pretty good. Makes the infantry bearable and tauros is good. Commisar is bit of meh but isn't complete sucker. This one you can buy multiples without being waste of money.

Compare to say orks which has painboy you don't need tons and deff dread you shouldn't even get one if you don't want to handicap already weak army.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter




england

Tau is the best one I feel.
2 of those and your golden really. Especially if you ignore all the crisis suit whinging
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






ValentineGames wrote:
Tau is the best one I feel.
2 of those and your golden really. Especially if you ignore all the crisis suit whinging


It's hard to ignore the whinging when they are pretty much the last black mark on the army in 8th. I don't play Tau, but even I can see how plain useless they are at their cost.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





meleti wrote:
The Tau one is pretty great. Only held back by Crisis suits being, uh, less than ideal in 8th edition.


Yeah, the Crisis suits alone normally retail for £45, and the Start Collecting is £50. So money wise it's amazing value. But the problem is that Crisis suits are very poorly costed in game at the moment. If that every changes, this box will be amazing.
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

I think the SC boxes can be measured via a few metrics.

Absolute value: How much would it cost to buy all the components individually?
Repeatability: How useful would it be to buy multiple copies?
Usability: Are the contents any good?
Other options? i.e don’t get the SC: Space marine box, save and get the BaC box which is a far better deal

Absolute value is only relevant when tied to usability. It doesn’t matter how much you are saving if half the box is just destined to warm the shelf. Although if the box is a good enough value, you could just bin the parts you don’t want and still be ahead. (or e-bay/trade them if thinking clearly). This is true of all the boxed bundles that GW produces.

Repeatability is not relevant if you are just grabbing one. But I think it’s good to evaluate them with it in mind. A number of the SC boxes have monopose HQs. How many of those do you need? One or two, often depending how hard it would be to carve them up and turn them into something else. Sometimes getting more helps. When I picked up a SC: Eldar box, I thought that a solo war walker was a waste. Too fragile, not enough firepower, not worth wasting buffs on. But I grabbed a second SC box, and now I’m thinking that a squadron of two would let me pull some nice tricks.

Usability is a moving target. It depends on the current codex, rules, and meta. But it’s not worth getting the box if you can’t field the units in a army you want to play.

   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter




england

 vaklor4 wrote:
ValentineGames wrote:
Tau is the best one I feel.
2 of those and your golden really. Especially if you ignore all the crisis suit whinging


It's hard to ignore the whinging when they are pretty much the last black mark on the army in 8th. I don't play Tau, but even I can see how plain useless they are at their cost.

Utterly disagree but hey ho. If nobody wants them I'll gladly take them
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





ValentineGames wrote:
Tau is the best one I feel.
2 of those and your golden really. Especially if you ignore all the crisis suit whinging


Ah so pointing out obvious is whining. Check.

If you take crisis suits because they are cool fine. But you have to realize you are weakening army a lot. Ork players could be taking dreadnoughts and stompa as they are cool but they know odds of winning goes thinner by it(in case of stompa chance of win is then somewhere between 0% and 0.1%)

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






ValentineGames wrote:
 vaklor4 wrote:
ValentineGames wrote:
Tau is the best one I feel.
2 of those and your golden really. Especially if you ignore all the crisis suit whinging


It's hard to ignore the whinging when they are pretty much the last black mark on the army in 8th. I don't play Tau, but even I can see how plain useless they are at their cost.

Utterly disagree but hey ho. If nobody wants them I'll gladly take them


I'm not giving mine as I hope they get eventually fixed, but out of the twelve I own, I've played exactly zero since 8th dropped because they are utter junk and the only semi viable build is triple ion.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter




england

tneva82 wrote:
ValentineGames wrote:
Tau is the best one I feel.
2 of those and your golden really. Especially if you ignore all the crisis suit whinging


Ah so pointing out obvious is whining. Check.

If you take crisis suits because they are cool fine. But you have to realize you are weakening army a lot. Ork players could be taking dreadnoughts and stompa as they are cool but they know odds of winning goes thinner by it(in case of stompa chance of win is then somewhere between 0% and 0.1%)

I'll take those off their hands too. If I did orks I'd always go stompa/dread/kan heavy
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





 BoomWolf wrote:
ValentineGames wrote:
 vaklor4 wrote:
ValentineGames wrote:
Tau is the best one I feel.
2 of those and your golden really. Especially if you ignore all the crisis suit whinging


It's hard to ignore the whinging when they are pretty much the last black mark on the army in 8th. I don't play Tau, but even I can see how plain useless they are at their cost.

Utterly disagree but hey ho. If nobody wants them I'll gladly take them


I'm not giving mine as I hope they get eventually fixed, but out of the twelve I own, I've played exactly zero since 8th dropped because they are utter junk and the only semi viable build is triple ion.


Meh their only good function is to turn one into a crisis commander.
Put with drone controller and velocity tracker and no weapons. Now you have a 79 point kauyon and C&CN model for your misslesides and frees up your coldstar(s) for shenanigans
   
Made in de
Sister Vastly Superior




Germany - Bodensee/Ravensburg area

meleti wrote:
The Tau one is pretty great. Only held back by Crisis suits being, uh, less than ideal in 8th edition.


Play them as XV8 Crisis Commanders which are frickin' good. It's literally the only start Collecting Box with 4 HQ choices in it, kek.

@OP: As others have said, best money value are by far Tau, Necrons and Mechanicus for 40k, and Seraphon + Pestilens (/Skaven) for AoS. The Guard box is actually one of the lowest value ones.

The nice thing about the Tau, Necron and Mechanicus boxes are also that they all have great units in them you WANT multiple of, so if you buy two or three of them you already have the core of a 1000 or 1500 point army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/21 15:32:07


Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer


- The saga of Hrothgar the Beastslayer 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





 Nevelon wrote:
I think the SC boxes can be measured via a few metrics.

Absolute value: How much would it cost to buy all the components individually?
Repeatability: How useful would it be to buy multiple copies?
Usability: Are the contents any good?
Other options? i.e don’t get the SC: Space marine box, save and get the BaC box which is a far better deal

Absolute value is only relevant when tied to usability. It doesn’t matter how much you are saving if half the box is just destined to warm the shelf. Although if the box is a good enough value, you could just bin the parts you don’t want and still be ahead. (or e-bay/trade them if thinking clearly). This is true of all the boxed bundles that GW produces.

Repeatability is not relevant if you are just grabbing one. But I think it’s good to evaluate them with it in mind. A number of the SC boxes have monopose HQs. How many of those do you need? One or two, often depending how hard it would be to carve them up and turn them into something else. Sometimes getting more helps. When I picked up a SC: Eldar box, I thought that a solo war walker was a waste. Too fragile, not enough firepower, not worth wasting buffs on. But I grabbed a second SC box, and now I’m thinking that a squadron of two would let me pull some nice tricks.

Usability is a moving target. It depends on the current codex, rules, and meta. But it’s not worth getting the box if you can’t field the units in a army you want to play.


Under usability, just because the contents are "good", doesn't mean the box is usable. It's a START COLLECTING box, if it doesn't provide you a place to actually start collecting, and you need to buy 5 more boxes of things to play a game, it's not a very good starter set, is it?

The IG box is in this situation. Leman Russes aren't good, but you can always make it a Tank Commander, which is, so sure you can use the infantry squad and tank that comes in the IG box, but a tank and an infantry does not something remotely usable make.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter




england

Leman russ aren't good?
Jesus are players really this bad now?
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Remember Dakkadakka's rule 13
- Army you're playing is the worst in the game.

We can also apply rule 23 here:
-If it is proven, mathematically to be 0.24% better at killing a Space Marine it's the best choice, everything else is "hot garbage" and you'd be stupid to take those options/models.

That applies to Leman Russes if you compare them with Tank Commanders.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/21 17:33:07


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter




england

 Galas wrote:
Remember Dakkadakka's rule 13
- Army you're playing is the worst in the game.

We can also apply rule 23 here:
-If it is proven, mathematically to be 0.24% better at killing a Space Marine it's the best choice, everything else is "hot garbage" and you'd be stupid to take those options/models.

That applies to Leman Russes if you compare them with Tank Commanders.

Ahh. Yes I forgot about those rules and the logic of the 40k players mind
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






Lemon rusts arent bad, people are just bad. Just like how im not good, my berzerkers are
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Under usability, just because the contents are "good", doesn't mean the box is usable. It's a START COLLECTING box, if it doesn't provide you a place to actually start collecting, and you need to buy 5 more boxes of things to play a game, it's not a very good starter set, is it?

The IG box is in this situation. Leman Russes aren't good, but you can always make it a Tank Commander, which is, so sure you can use the infantry squad and tank that comes in the IG box, but a tank and an infantry does not something remotely usable make.


True. That would be another good metric to gauge them. A lot of them can work fine as an army expansion box, but how well do they work for someone just getting into the game? With the different “ways to play” and detachments, it’s not as simple as it used to be when we just needed a HQ and 2 troops.

   
 
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