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Made in vn
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






So gw has basically just given the Renegade knight players an entirely new codex but for free.

Info here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/22/22nd-june-you-asked-for-chaos-knights-you-got-emgw-homepage-post-1/

I really thought GW would milk players for all they got by forcing them to buy a new codex, in fact I remember having an argument with somebody here about it on this very forums. They believed there would be no need for it and that we would moan because gw wouldn't give renegades any of the model options, traits, and stratagems so there woukd be no point... geuss we all got it wrong in our continual meaningless fighting.

Anyway, I'm big enough to admit when I am wrong so I apologise GW and appreciate the effort (not the effort of the rules, more the effor to not exploit customers). I also apologise tompeople in that Renegade Knight thread who I argued with.

On an interesting note, there was lots of traktor mek gunz in that mIn image which is cool. The team show off cool renegade conversation. And we get an idea of when things are printed (the knights codex was likely finished and printed last year) in GW's timeline.

However, (on a cheeky note) calling it "Index Renegade Knights" suggests a codex is comming. So they kinda spoiled that probably. Silly Gw...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/22 12:55:14


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





It's neat, and a nice fix. It's a little sad it's so anemic - I think if they'd done a fully distinct Renegade Knight codex it could have been a cooler army.

Regardless it's great to see Chaos get the point reduction, access to other models, and the change to the command points is huge to both Renegade and Imperial Knight players - something I didn't understand at all with that book.

Overall, cool. And hold onto your butts - you're going to see a ton of Armiger Helverin detachments in Chaos armies now - that's the highlight unit of that whole Codex to me.
   
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 Elbows wrote:
It's neat, and a nice fix. It's a little sad it's so anemic - I think if they'd done a fully distinct Renegade Knight codex it could have been a cooler army.

Regardless it's great to see Chaos get the point reduction, access to other models, and the change to the command points is huge to both Renegade and Imperial Knight players - something I didn't understand at all with that book.

Overall, cool. And hold onto your butts - you're going to see a ton of Armiger Helverin detachments in Chaos armies now - that's the highlight unit of that whole Codex to me.


What's this though? They now have new rules for models that don't exist (although calling it an index makes me think of the word "Yet").?! Did we just get thrown into a parallel dimension?

If anything this just shows GW is finally figuring out how to be a business. Keep you customers happy! Now players don't feel cheated (which would of happened if this was in the knight codex). It also helps that giving them free rules for new expensive models is now going to encourage an entire faction (and being chaos that's a huge selection of the player base) to go out tomorrow and buy sed new expensive models with the rules in hand to play them that day!

I wonder who in the office was like "Dave, should we give these guys a copy paste of the Imperial data sheets and just change the keywords? It might double the sales of these £100 models we have laying around". And for once, on that special day, Dave wasn't high on snorting plastic and decided to not hit poor Jimmy for his foolish logical thought. Dave sat there, with the first clear head he has had for 10 years, pondering. Lifitng his head he spoke: "Wtf, you're telling me we could just make a quick post on Facebook, create a new blog in a day and we'll double our sales overnight? Why haven't we just done that for years? It's basically free money!"

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/06/22 13:10:47


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Sure, but they've been doing this pretty well with Forgeworld stuff...by just arbitrarily throwing "hellforged" onto all of their 30K Space Marine stuff and it's miraculously now in 40K for Chaos Space Marines.

I love that they did this - it's great (some of my friends have collected Knights recently), but I do think for the people who were really serious about playing a Renegade Knight list they'll be underwhelmed by the lack of stratagems, warlord traits, better relics, etc.

As you said, perhaps it's a "yet" holdover, but I think it's a good thing overall.
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





cedar rapids, iowa

Yeah I sometimes wonder if their management/sales overthink things sometimes. Making rule updates like this can really impact your gross margin.

 
   
Made in us
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





Ohio

 Elbows wrote:
It's neat, and a nice fix. It's a little sad it's so anemic - I think if they'd done a fully distinct Renegade Knight codex it could have been a cooler army.

Regardless it's great to see Chaos get the point reduction, access to other models, and the change to the command points is huge to both Renegade and Imperial Knight players - something I didn't understand at all with that book.

Overall, cool. And hold onto your butts - you're going to see a ton of Armiger Helverin detachments in Chaos armies now - that's the highlight unit of that whole Codex to me.

My world eaters are loving the idea of having Helverins backing them up.
   
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 sfshilo wrote:
Yeah I sometimes wonder if their management/sales overthink things sometimes. Making rule updates like this can really impact your gross margin.


Kinda makes you wonder why the indexes weren't free PDF's..... but we won't go into that... this thread is about being joyful that GW actually did something that makes them seem like a good trustworthy company for once. It's nice to have a bit of hope.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 lolman1c wrote:
 sfshilo wrote:
Yeah I sometimes wonder if their management/sales overthink things sometimes. Making rule updates like this can really impact your gross margin.


Kinda makes you wonder why the indexes weren't free PDF's..... but we won't go into that... this thread is about being joyful that GW actually did something that makes them seem like a good trustworthy company for once. It's nice to have a bit of hope.


For once? There's about a year or more of these kinds of events. Look harder.
   
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
 lolman1c wrote:
 sfshilo wrote:
Yeah I sometimes wonder if their management/sales overthink things sometimes. Making rule updates like this can really impact your gross margin.


Kinda makes you wonder why the indexes weren't free PDF's..... but we won't go into that... this thread is about being joyful that GW actually did something that makes them seem like a good trustworthy company for once. It's nice to have a bit of hope.


For once? There's about a year or more of these kinds of events. Look harder.


Calm down daedy my boy... this is a relaxing zen thread. Only calm renegades allowed! And this is the first one that has peaked my attention as it's the first one I haven't predicted. The rest I guessed already.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






People are saying the rules are crappy but tbh they dont seem that bad. Sure, it's like Chapter Approved level value, but they give you a reason to field a shooty renegade knight (double dakka cannon+reroll everything strat seems stronk) and a melee renegade knight (Engine of Destruction+Spookymask+Warlord Trait) and if you want to use the new kits, go for it!

Renegade Knights are clearly designed to be worse as a whole army but better as a single-model take. I'd go for a Renegade SH aux detachment over a loyalist one with a Freeblade any day. Gimme dat double dakka renegade with Ironstorm pod into a dark eldar/necron heavy meta pls.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 lolman1c wrote:


Calm down daedy my boy... this is a relaxing zen thread. Only calm renegades allowed! And this is the first one that has peaked my attention as it's the first one I haven't predicted. The rest I guessed already.


How can I be calm when I get to field armigers?! SQUEEEE!
   
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the_scotsman wrote:
People are saying the rules are crappy but tbh they dont seem that bad. Sure, it's like Chapter Approved level value, but they give you a reason to field a shooty renegade knight (double dakka cannon+reroll everything strat seems stronk) and a melee renegade knight (Engine of Destruction+Spookymask+Warlord Trait) and if you want to use the new kits, go for it!

Renegade Knights are clearly designed to be worse as a whole army but better as a single-model take. I'd go for a Renegade SH aux detachment over a loyalist one with a Freeblade any day. Gimme dat double dakka renegade with Ironstorm pod into a dark eldar/necron heavy meta pls.


Okay, even I of all people think that's moaning a bit too much...if i was a Chaos player I'd be over the moon right now! Having updated points alone would have been more than enough. Hell, as an ork player I would seriously consider forgiving GW for 7th edition if they brought out a free expansion that encouraged us to convert imperial GW models, gave us points, real data sheets and so on...

The biggest keyword here is free! They could easily have just FAQ'd keywords into the codex but they didn't. Now chaos players don't even need to buy a new codex to do the same things as an imperial knight!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/22 13:47:42


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah everything about this is great. Good job GW.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





They even threw knights a bone and bumped the SHD to 6 CP (still with 3 knights)
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





And 3cp with 1 questor and 2 armigers. Which btw is huge. Allows pure non knights without ig allies in less competive enviroments to work. Still need cp battery for very competive enviroments but something

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/22 13:57:38


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Nice thing to do for all the renegade knight players. And it is free too. Gives me hope that in some time they will update Grey Knights that way too.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
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 lolman1c wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
People are saying the rules are crappy but tbh they dont seem that bad. Sure, it's like Chapter Approved level value, but they give you a reason to field a shooty renegade knight (double dakka cannon+reroll everything strat seems stronk) and a melee renegade knight (Engine of Destruction+Spookymask+Warlord Trait) and if you want to use the new kits, go for it!

Renegade Knights are clearly designed to be worse as a whole army but better as a single-model take. I'd go for a Renegade SH aux detachment over a loyalist one with a Freeblade any day. Gimme dat double dakka renegade with Ironstorm pod into a dark eldar/necron heavy meta pls.


Okay, even I of all people think that's moaning a bit too much...if i was a Chaos player I'd be over the moon right now! Having updated points alone would have been more than enough. Hell, as an ork player I would seriously consider forgiving GW for 7th edition if they brought out a free expansion that encouraged us to convert imperial GW models, gave us points, real data sheets and so on...

The biggest keyword here is free! They could easily have just FAQ'd keywords into the codex but they didn't. Now chaos players don't even need to buy a new codex to do the same things as an imperial knight!


I'm not moaning? I'm pointing out how Renegade Knights are evidently intended to be designed - less optimized as a whole army, arguably more optimized as a single add-on. Because they're rarer in the fluff.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Karol wrote:
Nice thing to do for all the renegade knight players. And it is free too. Gives me hope that in some time they will update Grey Knights that way too.


That's already in the works, but not free - they'll be updated in December. Maybe GW will be nice and do something in the September FAQ.
   
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Karol wrote:
Nice thing to do for all the renegade knight players. And it is free too. Gives me hope that in some time they will update Grey Knights that way too.


I predict they'll uodate all the 2007 codecies up until IG probably.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:
 lolman1c wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
People are saying the rules are crappy but tbh they dont seem that bad. Sure, it's like Chapter Approved level value, but they give you a reason to field a shooty renegade knight (double dakka cannon+reroll everything strat seems stronk) and a melee renegade knight (Engine of Destruction+Spookymask+Warlord Trait) and if you want to use the new kits, go for it!

Renegade Knights are clearly designed to be worse as a whole army but better as a single-model take. I'd go for a Renegade SH aux detachment over a loyalist one with a Freeblade any day. Gimme dat double dakka renegade with Ironstorm pod into a dark eldar/necron heavy meta pls.


Okay, even I of all people think that's moaning a bit too much...if i was a Chaos player I'd be over the moon right now! Having updated points alone would have been more than enough. Hell, as an ork player I would seriously consider forgiving GW for 7th edition if they brought out a free expansion that encouraged us to convert imperial GW models, gave us points, real data sheets and so on...

The biggest keyword here is free! They could easily have just FAQ'd keywords into the codex but they didn't. Now chaos players don't even need to buy a new codex to do the same things as an imperial knight!


I'm not moaning? I'm pointing out how Renegade Knights are evidently intended to be designed - less optimized as a whole army, arguably more optimized as a single add-on. Because they're rarer in the fluff.


I wasn't saying you're moaning. I was saying the people who are upset with this free index are moaners. I was referring to the people you were referring to, not you. You silly billy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/22 14:06:33


 
   
Made in ca
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

Good move on GW's part. I'm work blocked, so I can't see all the specific rules. If they're garbage, its a nice gesture marred by poor execution (a trend at GW), but if the rules are good, then I'll commend them for listening, reacting, and pulling it off well.

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Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




I predict they'll uodate all the 2007 codecies up until IG probably.

I just hope they do it before the summer ends,when september comes I am going to a new school and I don't think that town has any stores to play at, plus living in a boarding school means strickt rules on going out etc.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut



London

Plus an extra 6 CP's...
   
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 Blacksails wrote:
Good move on GW's part. I'm work blocked, so I can't see all the specific rules. If they're garbage, its a nice gesture marred by poor execution (a trend at GW), but if the rules are good, then I'll commend them for listening, reacting, and pulling it off well.


The rules and poitns, from what I can see, are all the same as the imperial knights codex. However, they're the full data sheets, just like a codex. You don't have to buy the codex at all. Their special rule is that their warlord get's objective secured even if there are more models (and if the other had the same rule then the warlord counts as 10 models). Their relic give -1 and -2 leader ship depending on range. Their strats are ,+1 inv and reroll all hits and wounds. Overall, not the worst rule in the world. A little boring but for the ability to zue the new models without buying a £25 codex it's great.
   
Made in gb
Intoxicated Centigor





I was expecting updated point values for the renegade knight with the codex FAQ, but I didn't expect rules for all knight patterns, and in a free document no less. Today is a good day to be a heretic.
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User





 lolman1c wrote:
... Their strats are ,+1 inv and reroll all hits and wounds. ...


The second one is reroll all failed hit rolls in the shooting or fight phase, not hits and wounds

   
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Legendary Dogfighter




england

I dislike the fascination GW now has for destroying all individuality though.
Be nice if you could have more variations in weapon combos on these things instead of just combo A and combo B
   
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

ValentineGames wrote:
I dislike the fascination GW now has for destroying all individuality though.
Be nice if you could have more variations in weapon combos on these things instead of just combo A and combo B

The Questoris classes get more variations than their Imperium counterparts. You get to double up on specific guns still.

It's just the Dominus and Armigers which don't--which is the smart move since people would be crying about needing to buy two kits to make one thing.
   
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ValentineGames wrote:
I dislike the fascination GW now has for destroying all individuality though.
Be nice if you could have more variations in weapon combos on these things instead of just combo A and combo B


Eye, but I very much predict you'll be getting something. Or they wouldn't call it an index.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I think it is funny how closely GW was able to replicate all the rules and options of the Dex IK with an 8 page faq. A few less options, and nothing like Freeblades, but othersize, so close.

I would point out that the rule of three does affect the Chaos side more with Armigers. You can only field a max of 9, where the Imperials can field 18 if desired. Not a huge deal, but something.
   
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Legendary Dogfighter




england

 Kanluwen wrote:

It's just the Dominus and Armigers which don't--which is the smart move since people would be crying about needing to buy two kits to make one thing.

Like how getting a Plasma Cannon in a tactical squad requires 2 box sets?
Or a heavy weapon team in a guard squad requires two box sets?

But buying 2 £95 knights to get two gatling cannons is ok...

The logic escapes me...
   
 
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