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Title says it all. I am building an IG army and want to try the Mordian doctrines. Specifically, the Parade Ground which says a Vehicle within 3" of another vehicle with the same doctrine may add 1 to hit rolls when firing overwatch. I have read the FAQ explaining they now hit on overwatch with a result of 6 or 7 (as opposed to the CRB that only a 6 hits). (page 2 of the IG FAQ top left)
Defensive Gunners says a vehicle on overwatch now hits on 5 OR 6 on overwatch. I do not see a problem in my group, but if I go to a tournament and play defensive gunners with my vehicles which add 1 to overwatch rolls, are people out there arguing that the defensive gunners rule stating 5 and 6's hit on overwatch eliminates the FAQ ruling making the Mordian trait useful?
My reading is that with defensive gunners, my vehicles hit on overwatch on a roll of 4,5, or 6. (given of course they meet all other requirements)
Does anyone see a problem or different interaction?

While my first instinct is to say they "stack", I am not 100% sure. It comes down to whether it's a blanket "exception" like it says or if it's an explicit instruction only allowing results of 6 and 7 to hit.

In short, make something up, because the RaW doesn't give enough information, and because GW sure as hell won't.

Over watch says a hit is a "6 regardless of modifiers" I don't know guard, do both those buffs apply specificly to over watch?

Headlss: In the Astra Militarum FAQ on page 2, upper left column it explains the Parade ground rule adding one to overwatch shots has an exception to the CRB rule on overwatch, namely that a 6 AND a 7 count as a hit, and that as an exception to the rule, the add 1 to overwatch shots does take effect for these units. The problem is the Strategem Defensive Gunners specifically says your vehicles now hit overwatch on a 5 or 6. So the real thing is how are people interpreting these two rules to interact. Does the numbers listed in Defensive Gunners overwrite the FAQ clarification for Parade Ground? My group says they both count, and so a Mordian Doctrine vehicle meeting all the criteria and using the Defensive Gunners Strategem hits Overwatch on a roll of 4,5,or 6 (thus a modified result of 5,6,or 7). I can certainly see a tournament style player in a critical moment arguing the former interpretation.

While the previews are not rules the Mordia article explicitly references how nasty Mordia Lemans will be with Defensive Gunners. I imagine that in most settings the clear intent would be enough to resolve the question if it even came up.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/26/regiment-focus-mordian-sep26gw-homepage-post-2/

It does seem to imply that the strategy does add to the scariness of the doctrine by saying that you can throw it onto the tank. If the strategy and the doctrine overlapped instead of stacking they wouldn't need to mention the strategy in the first place.

Good points guys! I am 100% with it works. Again in my group...no worries at all. In a tournament setting against players I do not know, they might still argue that intent has no meaning, only RAW. So probably not a solution until GW clarifies (if they do)

edwardmyst wrote:
Good points guys! I am 100% with it works. Again in my group...no worries at all. In a tournament setting against players I do not know, they might still argue that intent has no meaning, only RAW. So probably not a solution until GW clarifies (if they do)

Intent does have no meaning. If you're going to a tournament and you know this situation is going to come up, talk to the TO before the tournament starts.

Does defensive gunners say "unmodified 5 or 6"? Or 5+ or 6+?

If it says unmodified it doesn't stack. If it says 5+ it does. If it says something else gee dubs needs to have their writers play Magic competitively for a year or 2 before they are allowed to write any more rules.

Headlss wrote:
Does defensive gunners say "unmodified 5 or 6"? Or 5+ or 6+?

If it says unmodified it doesn't stack. If it says 5+ it does. If it says something else gee dubs needs to have their writers play Magic competitively for a year or 2 before they are allowed to write any more rules.

Defensive gunners says:



So defensive gunners says successfully hit on a roll of 5 or 6...

8th Ed 40k Rules wrote:Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.

Technically a unit with the Mordian Doctrine do not hit in Overwatch if they roll a 6, only a 5 (As they have to add one) because Overwatch hits on a 6, not a 6+ (Unless I missed something saying that rolls of 7+ are the same as rolling a 6. with so many FaQ's in different locations it is possible I missed something).

 DeathReaper wrote:
Technically a unit with the Mordian Doctrine do not hit in Overwatch if they roll a 6, only a 5 (As they have to add one) because Overwatch hits on a 6, not a 6+ (Unless I missed something saying that rolls of 7+ are the same as rolling a 6. with so many FaQ's in different locations it is possible I missed something).

They fixed that with errata.

Page 133 – Mordian: Parade Ground Doctrine
Add the following sentence:
‘These modifiers to hit rolls are an exception to the normal rules which do not allow modifiers when making Overwatch shots – in such cases a result of 7 is also a successful hit.’

I am starting to think my initial feeling was correct, they "stack", because they all specify exact numbers that result in a hit on overwatch.

Say you use both, then roll a 4. You add 1 as per the Doctrine (which explicitly says you may do so even in Overwatch), which means the end result is 5, which is a hit as per the Defensive Gunners rule.

Yep it all works together, as you're told a 5,6 OR 7 hit

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Technically a unit with the Mordian Doctrine do not hit in Overwatch if they roll a 6, only a 5 (As they have to add one) because Overwatch hits on a 6, not a 6+ (Unless I missed something saying that rolls of 7+ are the same as rolling a 6. with so many FaQ's in different locations it is possible I missed something).

They fixed that with errata.

Page 133 – Mordian: Parade Ground Doctrine
Add the following sentence:
‘These modifiers to hit rolls are an exception to the normal rules which do not allow modifiers when making Overwatch shots – in such cases a result of 7 is also a successful hit.’

I am starting to think my initial feeling was correct, they "stack", because they all specify exact numbers that result in a hit on overwatch.

Say you use both, then roll a 4. You add 1 as per the Doctrine (which explicitly says you may do so even in Overwatch), which means the end result is 5, which is a hit as per the Defensive Gunners rule.

Tend to agree. I think they likely intended both to function the same, but spectacularly failed at that, just allowing some units to Overwatch at essentially full BS thanks to the Stratagem!

They suck at writing rules.