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House Raven SHD +3CP

Knight Warden
Avenger, HF, HS, Reaper, Stormspear
Iron Bulwark
[456]

Armiger Helverin
HS
[174]

Armiger Helverin
HS
[174]

[804]

House Raven SHD +6CP

Knight Warden
Avenger, HF, HS, Reaper
[411]

Knight Errant
TC, HS, Reaper, Ironstorm
Cunning Commander
[411]

Knight Gallant
Reaper, Paragon Gauntlet, HS, Ironstorm
Landstrider
[370]

[1192]

[1996]

Simple, straight-forward list. Errant for anti-tank, Wardens for ...everything. Gallant to Full Tilt into combat and wreck. Helverins to help chip away at stuff. Really not rocket surgery. Raven means advancing and shooting, which gives me better mobility.

Surprising amount of CP to draw from thanks to the FAQ - 10 after Exalted Court is applied with Cunning Commander. I should be able to use the Exalted Court, Full Tilt, and a few Rotates, plus the solid Order of Companions without sweating it too much.

Thoughts? Ideas?

Looks pretty good to me. Let us know how you get on, have you got the models all ready to go?

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Looks pretty good to me. Let us know how you get on, have you got the models all ready to go?

Nope. Got to buy the baby Knights and am smack dab in the middle of a move, so I can't even start this project, but I for sure have all the Knight chassis on-hand. I look forward to getting my studio back up and running because painting Knights is my favorite thing. Of course, I have a Knight commission to do first, but I should be able to get this project done before 2019.

Do you really think cunning commander is worth 1 CP? You take 2 extra traits so pay 3CP. You get 1 back. 1 reroll for game for 1CP...I would rather spend that for rotate ionshield or something else. Or take 2 relics(think you only have the paragon gauntlet) over 2 traits and get endless fury..

Cunning commander I would take only if I didn't want to spend any CP for extra warlord traits. But as you have landstrider and ion bulwark that's not the case as no free cunning commander.

tneva82 wrote:
Do you really think cunning commander is worth 1 CP? You take 2 extra traits so pay 3CP. You get 1 back. 1 reroll for game for 1CP...I would rather spend that for rotate ionshield or something else. Or take 2 relics(think you only have the paragon gauntlet) over 2 traits and get endless fury..

Cunning commander I would take only if I didn't want to spend any CP for extra warlord traits. But as you have landstrider and ion bulwark that's not the case as no free cunning commander.

You know, that is a good point. I only really need Iron Bulwark and Landstrider. That would be 1CP extra for Exalted Court instead of doing the 3CP. I figured the freebie 1CP back was worth it, but honestly I guess not really for the net loss.

Endless Fury is nice. I overlooked it, thinking most of the relic weapons seemed kinda bad. I will for sure toss that in.

So with the single EC and the extra Relic, I still wind up with the same amount of CP as I had before, too. That is good!

Thanks for that tneva!

Your welcome. The cunning commander is weird strategem. If you take no other extra traits it's no brainer as it's free reroll. If you take other trait it's 1 CP for reroll BUT it's less flexible reroll than command point reroll so you would be better of not taking it and save it for command reroll that you can use for other knights if need or for example to reroll number of shots thermal lance fires which cunning commander cannot use...

Free reroll is obvious bad game design. Anything you can add because there is literally no downside is bad. And the less flexible reroll for 1CP than command reroll is obviously bad.

ONLY time that trait is actually sensible(though not worth it) is when it's only trait in your army as you get reroll AND CP but really? Knight army that doesn't take ion bulwark, landstrider, AP-1 weapons are AP0 effectively or some other cool traits knights have? Yeah right.

The more I think about the trait the less sense it makes.

As for endless fury. Yeah that's nice upgrade to avengers. Extra shots, exploding 6's. It hits in average tad short of 12 times with it which is pretty good. Generally the relic weapons don't appeal but this is pretty good. Relic fist is usable though situational.

You guys are missing two points of cunning commander. Yes, you're dumping 2 CP to get 1 and a re-roll basically but you are spending 1 CP ahead of time for a re-roll giving you the benefit of said re-roll without having to use the re-roll stratagem. Which means you have the flexibility of two re-rolls that phase when you would had expected to have only 1. Additionally, you are making the Knight a character allowing you to heroically intervene and being in a army which wants to simply rush the opponent this should not be disregarded to quickly. So yes, is spending 1 CP worth the benefits of...

1) A re-roll which doesn't deny the re-roll stratagem. (Not re-roling a re-roll, ability to re-roll twice dice in a single phase).
2) Making your Knight a character

Rather tame benefits. Especially when knights are short of more powerfull traits which make you character likewise.

tneva82 wrote:
Your welcome. The cunning commander is weird strategem. If you take no other extra traits it's no brainer as it's free reroll. If you take other trait it's 1 CP for reroll BUT it's less flexible reroll than command point reroll so you would be better of not taking it and save it for command reroll that you can use for other knights if need or for example to reroll number of shots thermal lance fires which cunning commander cannot use...

Free reroll is obvious bad game design. Anything you can add because there is literally no downside is bad. And the less flexible reroll for 1CP than command reroll is obviously bad.

ONLY time that trait is actually sensible(though not worth it) is when it's only trait in your army as you get reroll AND CP but really? Knight army that doesn't take ion bulwark, landstrider, AP-1 weapons are AP0 effectively or some other cool traits knights have? Yeah right.

The more I think about the trait the less sense it makes.

As for endless fury. Yeah that's nice upgrade to avengers. Extra shots, exploding 6's. It hits in average tad short of 12 times with it which is pretty good. Generally the relic weapons don't appeal but this is pretty good. Relic fist is usable though situational.

It can be worth it as 3rd trait if your really wanting a 3rd relic for 6 CP and want to lower the cost by 1 the 3rd warlord trait isnt always that good anyway

So any games played yet with the list? I am opting for a similar list and I was wondering how it turned out for you.

Razzmatazz13 wrote:
So any games played yet with the list? I am opting for a similar list and I was wondering how it turned out for you.

Nah man. I am in the middle of a major move, so all my projects are on hold. Won't get to this for a few months, sadly.