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Hello from Germany.
I'm trying to join the tournament circus with a rather unusual list approach.
The idea behind the following list is to have a bit oft fun with big guys.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [68 PL, 1082pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Chaos Undivided

Rewards of Chaos (2 Relics)

+ HQ [43 PL, 850pts] +

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage [17 PL, 340pts]: Armour of Scorn

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 156pts] 2 Malefic Talons [10pts] Nurgle, Wings, fleshy abundance [1 PL, 24pts]

Lord of Change [17 PL, 330pts]: Baleful sword [10pts], Boon of Change, Incorporeal Form, Infernal Gateway, The Impossible Robe, Treason of Tzeentch, Warlord

+ Troops [25 PL, 232pts] +

Horrors [8 PL, 35pts]: Blue Horror [5pts], 10x Pair of Brimstone Horrors [30pts]

Horrors [8 PL, 35pts]: Blue Horror [5pts], 10x Pair of Brimstone Horrors [30pts]

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms [54pts]

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms [54pts]

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms [54pts]

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [23 PL, 445pts] ++

+ Lord of War [23 PL, 445pts] +

Magnus the Red [23 PL, 445pts]: weaver of fates, glamour of tzeentch, warptime

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts] ++

+ Lord of War [24 PL, 470pts] +

Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts] miasma of pestilence, blades of putrefication, curse of the leper

++ Total: [115 PL, 1997pts

I don't expect to win big tournaments with the guys. I would like to know what your suggestions, ideas and criticisms are. Is this scary enough to go against Imperial Knights lists? I think the list will struggle against Tyranids but I really can't place this list. So your feedback would be very much welcome.
Thank you for your time.

Looks like a fun list to play where your bloodthirster might actually make it into combat considering there is bigger targets for people to focus on. Unfortunately the hot army right now (Dark eldar) will counter you hard with a combination of poison and blasters.

I ran that same LOC in a tourney recently and the poison shooting brought him down in 2 turns. Should be fun to play though!

Slagmar wrote:
Looks like a fun list to play where your bloodthirster might actually make it into combat considering there is bigger targets for people to focus on. Unfortunately the hot army right now (Dark eldar) will counter you hard with a combination of poison and blasters.

I ran that same LOC in a tourney recently and the poison shooting brought him down in 2 turns. Should be fun to play though!

Thank you for your reply. I made a minor change by switching the khorne daemon prince für a nurgle one. That leaves me with two more CPs and a little heal for Mortarion. This only helps a little against poison and D6 weapons but overall I think it would be better for the Army to have more CPs.

I'd consider Skarbrand instead of the bloodthirster. If you're going to drop him in, he's a monster in close combat and his anti fallback rule is really useful for keeping him and other big guys safely locked in combat so your opponent has to attack your chaff instead.
I'd also consider dropping the Lord of Change. He never seems to be worth the points. You could swap in a daemon prince and some flamers (I've always found them the most reliable for the points).
In terms of psychic powers I'd try to squeeze death hex in there. It's a life saver for so many guys eho rely on invul saves, gullliman and storm sheilds especially.
Other than that looks a really fun list to play!

small_gods wrote:
I'd consider Skarbrand instead of the bloodthirster. If you're going to drop him in, he's a monster in close combat and his anti fallback rule is really useful for keeping him and other big guys safely locked in combat so your opponent has to attack your chaff instead.
I'd also consider dropping the Lord of Change. He never seems to be worth the points. You could swap in a daemon prince and some flamers (I've always found them the most reliable for the points).
In terms of psychic powers I'd try to squeeze death hex in there. It's a life saver for so many guys eho rely on invul saves, gullliman and storm sheilds especially.
Other than that looks a really fun list to play!

Hello small_gods. Skarbrand looks super interesting with his ability. But how does he survive? I do not think he will make it into close combat, maybe I am wrong.
When it comes to flamers do you meant Exalted flamers or the normal ones? I think you were talking about the Exalted ones because of them being characters.
Death Hex, of course I will exchange Glamour of Tzeentch for this one.
Lord of Change, hmmm. I have been thinking about dropping him. The thing is that I will trade him for just a Daemon Prince and two Exalted Flamers. I will be forced to change the troops slots into just having three nurglings, 2x3 and 1x4 bases.

I am not sure about those possible changes.

Skarbrand is fairly resilliant although not on knight or magnus levels. He's t7 16w 3+5++. I normally deep strike him in to keep him extra safe. Although in this list there are a few juicy targets and hopefully if you warptime magnus into their frontlines he'll draw most of their attention. Skarbrand will murder alomost anything on a charge and as he degrades he gets more attacks!! I think he'll take 18.9 woumds off a knight on a charge.
I was talking about normal flamers. Cast flickering flames on them and watch them go. I play them out front (after hiding them on deployment) and then if anyone is daft enough to charge them their 12 inch flamers auto hit on overwatch.
I've just been chatting to someone about how good the khorne DP with skullreaver is he'd be my pick for that extra daemin prince.

skarbrand dies in 1 turn against competive armies, De. eldar, Ig, many chaos list shoot off him from the table as soon as they focus it, Magnus dies same you can imagine Skarbrand with a inv save 5++, you must try to play some units against competitive armies. In the list above Skarbrand might find a spot cause it already play Mortarion and Magnus two bigger threats.

 blackmage wrote:
skarbrand dies in 1 turn against competive armies, De. eldar, Ig, many chaos list shoot off him from the table as soon as they focus it, Magnus dies same you can imagine Skarbrand with a inv save 5++, you must try to play some units against competitive armies. In the list above Skarbrand might find a spot cause it already play Mortarion and Magnus two bigger threats.

1) How does he die turn 1 if he's not on the table?
2) What is the point of units in this list if there is already Magnus and Mortarion on the table. In what world would someone with anything other that chaff themselves focus attacks on some cultists or horrors? If anything by including half a blob army you are going to make the opponent's troop heavy selection better.
3) This might not be the list that's winning all the major ITC events but there is still room for other sorts of armies than hoardes. People have been playong and doing well with, hive tyrant spam, tesseract spam and knights so is this not the chaos version of that?

i mean 1st turn opponent can shoot at him, if you drop him and fail a 9" charge (not impossible) you dead, remember things like grim reapers which can intercept him when he come from reserves (just an example)
the only thing i can say is... play the list against a competent opponent and you will figure all the weaknesses, in a forum is hard convince someone that some units are really under performing, i play high competitive ETC tournaments so i know why i said that, imho.
The most important thing is.... have fun with the list.

Thanks for your input guys.
Skarbrand, hmm. I just put a list together in the sense that I think small_gods was talking about:


Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [23 PL, 445pts]
Lord of War
Magnus the Red [23 PL, 445pts]
Selections: Death Hex, Warptime, Weaver of Fates

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts]
Lord of War
Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts]
Selections: Miasma of Pestilence, Plague Wind, Blades of Putrefaction

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [61 PL, 1085pts]
Chaos Undivided
Rewards of Chaos (2 Relics)

HQ
Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]
Selections: Malefic talon, Wings, Warlord
Tzeentch
Selections: Daemonspark, The Impossible Robe, Flickering Flames

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]
Selections: Daemonic axe, Khorne, Skullreaver, Wings

Skarbrand [18 PL, 360pts]

Troops
Horrors [8 PL, 35pts]
Selections: Blue Horror, 10x Pair of Brimstone Horrors

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]
Selections: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]
Selections: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]
Selections: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Elites
Flamers [8 PL, 168pts]
Selections: 5x Flamer, Pyrocaster


What I think will happen to Skarbrand is that the enemy can forget about him turn1, he is to slow and just cannot reach the enemy lines fast enough.
Or, when in reserve Magnus is still shot dead turn 1 and I have to live with the risk of not getting the charge with Skarbrand turn 2.
What I was really hoping for was that Skarbrand would be able to draw the enemies fire away from Magnus but having his wings shredded by Khorne himself means he is not that suitable for this endeaver. Or maybe he is I don't know. When I try to put him and the flamers in reserve I see my CPs go down fast.
Or to put it in other words: I'm still stuck in the process of finding my big guys list.

OK, decisions, decisions... Here I come up with a potentcial alternative to my initial list. What do you think? LoC, will he be missed? Are the changes towards the Skullreaver wielding khorne Dp and his brother in crime the tzeentch Dp Warlord the right way vor is it just not worth? What do you favour? List 1 vor 2?

Battalion, Chaos Undivided

Rewards of Chaos (2 Relics)
HQ
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage [17 PL, 340pts]
Selections: Armour of Scorn

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]
Selections: Daemonic axe, Khorne, Skullreaver, Wings

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]
Selections: Daemonspark, Malefic talon, Warlord, Wings

Tzeentch
Selections: Flickering Flames

Troops
Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]
Selections: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]
Selections: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]
Selections: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]
Selections: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Elites
Flamers [8 PL, 168pts]
Selections: 5x Flamer, Pyrocaster

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [23 PL, 445pts]
Lord of War
Magnus the Red [23 PL, 445pts]
Selections: Death Hex, Warptime, Weaver of Fates

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts]
Lord of War
Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts]
Selections: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 3. Plague Wind, 4. Blades of Putrefaction

i would play a Loc with impossible robes instead of Bt and perhaps pink horrors instead of 3 nurglings+flamers Tomorrow i will try this


++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [50 PL, 971pts] ++

+ HQ +

Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch [9 PL, 166pts]: Glamour of Tzeentch, Temporal Manipulation, Weaver of Fates

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [9 PL, 180pts]: Diabolic Strength, Gaze of Fate, Helm of the Third Eye, Malefic talon, Wings

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [9 PL, 180pts]: 5. Otherworldly Prescience, Gift of Chaos, Infernal Gaze, Malefic talon, Warlord, Wings

+ Lord of War +

Magnus the Red [23 PL, 445pts]: Death Hex, Infernal Gateway, Warptime

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [31 PL, 554pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle

Rewards of Chaos (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: Corruption, Hellforged sword, Wings
. Nurgle: Virulent Blessing

Poxbringer [4 PL, 70pts]: Fleshy Abundance

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 196pts]: 27x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 6. Curse of the Leper

++ Total: [105 PL, 1995pts] ++

similar to yours, just get Magnus into supreme command to maximize his bonus. I might switch plaguebearers and Nurgle Dp for a LoC with impossible robe

Hoi!

Reality bit my list hard in the a... I played a few games over the past weeks. Just yesterday I played against a IG List with some mighty firepower. Well, it didn`t went anywhere close to acceptable. The list is done, that I learned. In a Tournament at best a 50%er.

The things I learned:
Go first or have good book at hand.
Do not missplace Mortarion, he is the on that needs to get warptimed and crush the screens, not Magnus!
The Bloodthirster can nearly deal as well as Morty with little buggers like IG infantry.
Magnus is really Mr sacrifice. Once he leaves play (hopefully, but not realistically in turn 2+) warptime etc is gone...
Don`t think you can pull it of and win frequently against tournament players.

Or to put it in other words :
I need a new list that makes me happy playing this game.

that list cant handle top tier lists right now im sorry, it's a nice casual list but nothing more, Mortarion+Magnus+Bt in same list... 1200 pts in 3 models when focused die. If you want play Mortarion+Magnus dont play Bt, play something like i posted, pretty more strong and more competitive, keep warptime on Ahriman so they cant strip of so easily.