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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





This years ETC army lists have been released. They are pre-checked so there may be some mistakes.

Check them out here:

https://www.glasshammergaming.co.uk/2018/07/03/etc-2018-40k-army-lists/

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Lots of lists with either 3 Castellans, 3 Gallants or 3-4 Knights.
   
Made in fi
Fixture of Dakka





3 castellans? That's almost 1800 pts minimum.

Looking at it holy smokey you are right. I presume this is due to ETC format where they are team games with degree of control whom you face so having these adds to strategical toolbox team has. In individual tournament too many lists that would hard counter rofl-stomp them. ETC team tournaments don't tell quite the full picture. It's quite standard to have for example army that's basically designed not neccessarily to win but atleast not to lose big by sacrificing against army your team doesn't have decent tool.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/03 12:21:12


“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

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The basis of most list designs are either balanced (eldar and Imperial Soup) or extreme (Knights and Marines) this means some armies are better suited to play anything well or something specific very well.

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tneva82 wrote:
3 castellans? That's almost 1800 pts minimum.

Looking at it holy smokey you are right. I presume this is due to ETC format where they are team games with degree of control whom you face so having these adds to strategical toolbox team has. In individual tournament too many lists that would hard counter rofl-stomp them. ETC team tournaments don't tell quite the full picture. It's quite standard to have for example army that's basically designed not neccessarily to win but atleast not to lose big by sacrificing against army your team doesn't have decent tool.


I completely agree. The ability to pick and choose what each of your lists face has a massive impact on list building and the outcomes.

Most of the lists on that document (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HMJ7rZ2y_ffBg3rESG0JxjTl8J0B9Uyl/view) likely wouldn’t hold up in standard games/tournaments.

   
Made in fi
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Some are good for generic lists but obviously couple toolbox type of armies are valuable for teams.

Still surprised at three of them. I would have thought 3 is bit overkill and even something like valiant instead would be better. Especially as strategems work only on 1 at a time.

Wonder what army finnish team would be aiming to pair againt that list. They don't have any super hard counter for that that I can see like plaguebearer spam.

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

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Exactly, and some countries base their list building to their meta (look at the difference between Team America and the Europeans as an example). Very different.

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Is it just me or are some of the Drukhari lists mixing Kabal and Wych Cult units and losing out on benefiting from Obsessions?
   
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 KillswitchUK wrote:
Exactly, and some countries base their list building to their meta (look at the difference between Team America and the Europeans as an example). Very different.

yes that's the main weakness for team USA they dont play ETC during the year so they might have some issues playing a format they train with a few during the year.

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Wow, so much eldar and tau. Are any teams not running at least one eldar (soup/de) and 1 tau list?

Chaos is showing up as well with Knights and custode bikers seeming popular as well but no where near the volume of eldar and tau.

Lots of IG and Nids as well. Seems like the meta is pretty varied. Hell there's even a fair amount of admech.

I'm curious how the outlier marine armies fare (mono-BA army, majority raven guard and even a couple deathwatch). The only thing showing up in these lists seem to be raven guard aggressors and blood angel captains (with requisite scouts to fill the battalion)

Lol not 1 GK unit that I saw.

Is any of this being streamed or is there an official tournament report site?
   
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bananathug wrote:
Wow, so much eldar and tau. Are any teams not running at least one eldar (soup/de) and 1 tau list?

Chaos is showing up as well with Knights and custode bikers seeming popular as well but no where near the volume of eldar and tau.

Lots of IG and Nids as well. Seems like the meta is pretty varied. Hell there's even a fair amount of admech.

I'm curious how the outlier marine armies fare (mono-BA army, majority raven guard and even a couple deathwatch). The only thing showing up in these lists seem to be raven guard aggressors and blood angel captains (with requisite scouts to fill the battalion)

Lol not 1 GK unit that I saw.

Is any of this being streamed or is there an official tournament report site?

remember ETC is a team championship so the "meta" there isn't the real meta, lists are made for team strategy to counter some lists they should be paired with. For example those lists with 120 plaguebearers are 1st defender lists just wont give you points great to play against De or Ik's, in a single day tournaments hardly you see more than 60-90 Pb

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Dreaming Shadow representation woot woot!

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 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
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It’s hard to make conclusions on overall 40k because ETC is such a different format from individual player tournaments.
   
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True, but they are gravitating towards the most powerful units for the role they are trying to fill.

I think it gives a pretty good view as to what units are best at the role the general has in mind for that army. It seems super entertaining and the battle reports out of this event are hella interesting to me.

Anyone link the mission packs?
   
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Vigo. Spain.

meleti wrote:
It’s hard to make conclusions on overall 40k because ETC is such a different format from individual player tournaments.

ITC greatly skew lists and many people take it as gospel.
In reality, even if some lists/units that are op arent used in specific formats, all the lists and units youll see will be mostly the op stuff, in bearly all formats.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

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 Galas wrote:
meleti wrote:
It’s hard to make conclusions on overall 40k because ETC is such a different format from individual player tournaments.

ITC greatly skew lists and many people take it as gospel.
In reality, even if some lists/units that are op arent used in specific formats, all the lists and units youll see will be mostly the op stuff, in bearly all formats.


Yes, every format has its own impact on what lists are good. The team vs individual dynamic is a particularly important one, though.
   
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I am a little curious as to why lots of guys are running all melee knights. One guy had 3 of them. That seems odd to me.

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 chimeara wrote:
I am a little curious as to why lots of guys are running all melee knights. One guy had 3 of them. That seems odd to me.


How so? They’re quite strong now. The cheapest titanic Knights, with ways to pull off first turn charges, and numerous good stratagems.
   
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But diminishing results. Only 1 can get t1 charge, which is often trap anyway. 2nd could be good for backup but 3rd one is odd one if he could shave points elsewhere.

In shooty game h2h knights are risky. It's opponent who often decides what they attack. Albeit this is again less of issue when you have control to some degree on opponent so can avoid the hard counters

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 chimeara wrote:
I am a little curious as to why lots of guys are running all melee knights. One guy had 3 of them. That seems odd to me.

The idea is to run some very skewed list with the idea to get matchups for it that simply cannot deal with that type of heavy melee knights. You see more "all in" types of builds because you're looking for favorable matchups that some lists will have no counter for. Its a very different format then your general tournament so you don't bring as well rounded of lists
   
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 chimeara wrote:
I am a little curious as to why lots of guys are running all melee knights. One guy had 3 of them. That seems odd to me.

as i said above.... ETC lists are build with a specific team strategy in mind, when ur pairing lists you try yo pair against the list should suffer it more so some lists are extreme of course, for example attackers list are made to maximize points they can make defenders wont give you points and so on...

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I did not know this until recently some of the top US blatantly copy European army lists.

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Oh okay, thanks for 'splainin it.

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So what are peoples predictions? I think it will be:

1) Poland
2) England
3) Sweden

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 KillswitchUK wrote:
So what are peoples predictions? I think it will be:

1) Poland
2) England
3) Sweden


How does ETC work though? Is it 1 team vs another single team round 1, then vs another team round 2 etc, or is it anyone can get selected to play anyone?

   
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Kdash wrote:
 KillswitchUK wrote:
So what are peoples predictions? I think it will be:

1) Poland
2) England
3) Sweden


How does ETC work though? Is it 1 team vs another single team round 1, then vs another team round 2 etc, or is it anyone can get selected to play anyone?



Not 100% certain on exact routine but it's basically country A vs country B. Imagine normal tournament but rather than player you allocate team. Then they in turns assign players. This is part I'm not 100% sure but I think one team starts and puts player in, other team allocates army against it and then declare own player who gets returned by other etc until team members are all assigned.

Then one country's total points are all counted together. Obviously when you are put forward they will face what OTHER team thinks can handle so often armies put forward like this are designed so that they aren't giving easily points. And if there's good counter armies(like plaguebearer swarm against all knight list) they will be against the armies they are good if the other team puts that on(obviously as long as such a counter army is the countered army isn't put forward unless it's sacrifice to get even worse matchup avoided or something).

If above is in error feel free to correct. I'm basing on casual following of ETC tournaments in finnish forum.

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

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Is that for the entire event though, or does each country play multiple countries?

Without knowing who will be playing who, it is pretty much impossible to predict who will win, as, for all possibility Poland could be playing England (for example) pushing one of the teams completely out of the top 3 "expected" standings.
   
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Imagine countries as players in a normal tournament.

So in 5 rounds a country plays against 5 other countries. Individual games are scored 0-20. Tally up the 8 game scores for a team. 86-160 the team wins 2 points, 75-85 you get 1 point, less then 75 you get 0 points. Then swiss pairing of countries based on their points with the total game score as a tie-breaker.

Each round itself starts by country A and B both nominating an army to play (the defender)
A then picks 2 armies to go against the defender B put forth and B picks 2 armies to go against the defender A put forth. (the attackers)
A picks one of the 2 attackers that B offered. B picks one from the 2 attackers that A offered.
You now have 2 games determined.
Repeat again for 4 games.
Repeat again. after nominating the attackers your left with 1 person on each team not put forward. They play. (5 games)
Then each team rejects one of the 2 offered attackers.
Those 2 rejected play. (6 games)
And the defenders vs remaining attacker (8 games).

(So country A puts forward a 80 plaguebearer list, Country B puts forward 2 lists they think can beat it, A picks one of the 2 to face against the 80 plaguebearers. repeat).

Therefor each team wants to have 3 defensive lists they put forward, they have to be able to beat or not lose to badly to what is likely a counter matchup. And 5 lists designed to beat varies defensive lists.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/04 13:19:44


 
   
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For more information on the ETC and how it works, visit here:

https://www.glasshammergaming.co.uk/about-the-etc/

For the rules pack, visit here:

https://www.glasshammergaming.co.uk/latest-rulespack/

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/04 13:44:23


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I think I counted on one hand the number of times Codex Marines appeared. That's almost impressive.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
 
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