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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Finally getting back to playing again, and I have a major tournament coming up and I want to do well in it, so I have come to dakka for some advice.
The first list I have played 5-6 times and tweaked it here and there and I really like where it is. It's pretty melee-centric, lots of movement and a good variety of units. I'm a afraid it maybe to friendly for 60 person tourney. Here it is:

Cult of Strife battalion
HQ
Lelith w/ blood dancer (AoA)
Succubus w/glaive, blast pistol & helm of spite (+1 T)

Troops
9 Wyches w/shardnet (+1 S)
Hexatrix w/power sword & blast pistol

5 Wyches w/shardnet (+1 A)
Hexatrix w/agoniser & blast pistol

5 Wyches w/shardnet (+2 M)
Hexatrix w/agoniser & blast pistol

Kabal of the Flayed Skull
HQ
Archon w/ famed savagery, obsidian veil, husk blade & power pistol (Warlord)

Elites
Ur-ghul
Ur-ghul

Heavy Support
Ravager w/ 3 dissies
Ravager w/ 3 dissies
Ravager w/ 3 dissies

Transports
Raider w/dissie
Raider w/dissie
Raider w/dissie
Raider w/dissie

Prophets of Flesh vanguard
HQ
Haemonculus w/Diabolical Soothsayer (AoA), Vexator Mask, & electrocorrosive whip

Elites
3 Grotesques
3 Grotesques
8 Mandrakes
8 Mandrakes

Heavy Support
3 Talos w/haywire blasters

2000 pts on the dot

Lelith and the Archon each join a grot squad, 1 Ur-ghul with each of them in a raider. The Ur-ghul act as vehicle explosion fodder/overwatch eaters. The succubus joins the 9 Wyches in another raider and the 2 5 man wyche squads go in the last. Raiders screen the ravagers, the Talos fire and fade up field with the Haemonculus advancing up behind them. Mandrakes start in deep strike reserve and look for opportunities to score points.
I have had good success with it and it's a lot of fun to play, but with Imperial Knights & Custode Shield Captains being a thing,
I think I may need some more fire power and probably Agents of Vect. So here comes the new list;

Kabal of the Black Heart air wing
Razorwing Jetfighter w/2 darklances
Razorwing Jetfighter w/2 darklances
Razorwing Jetfighter w/2 darklances

Kabal of the Flayed Skull spearhead
HQ
Archon w/Famed Savagery, Obsidian Veil, huskblade, & blast pistol (Warlord)

Elites
8 Mandrakes
8 Mandrakes

Fast Attack
5 Scourges w/4 haywire blasters
5 Scourges w/4 haywire blasters

Heavy Support
Ravager w/3 dissies
Ravager w/3 dissies
Ravager w/3 dissies

Transports
Raider w/dissie, shock prow, & chainsnares
Raider w/dissie, shock prow, & chainsnares
Raider w/dissie, shock prow, & chainsnares

Cult of Strife battalion
HQ
Lelith w/Blood Dancer (AoA)
Succubus w/Helm of Spite, glaive, & blast pistol (+2 M)

Troops
9 Wyches w/shardnet (+1 S)
Hexatrix w/powersword & blast pistol

9 Wyches w/shardnet (+1 A)
Hexatrix w/agoniser & blast pistol

9 Wyches w/shardnet (+1 T)
Hexatrix w/agoniser & blast pistol

1998 point

More offense, less durability, more shooty, less choppy. So which list?I will only get a few games in before the tournament and I want to practice with the army I am going to play. So any suggestions, tweaks or what not, please give me your insight. Thanks!

   
Made in us
Guardsman with Flashlight




Texas

I still haven't played a game in 8th, but just based on what I've seen/read, you aren't gaining much from flayed skull. It might be better to change the spearhead to black heart for the 6+++ on vehicles. Would also open up the re-roll wounds relic/cp farm trait for the archon, which is apparently super good for ravagers. Looks like a kickass list though! Good luck in the tourney, please post results!
   
Made in us
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






I say stick with flayed skull. You have a lot of shooting coming out of those boats. Multiple Ravagers and Raiders with dissies means a whole lot of shots. And rerolling those ones will be great. The other reason is for the speed. You are carrying wyches who need to get to close combat. That extra mobility from flayed skull can help you get there. The extra speed is also good for tournaments where grabbing objectives will be important.

Between the two lists that is a tough call. I really like the way the coven units are playing right now though. Grotesques and Talos are very tough, and there are some great strategems to be used with them. Additionally, the vexator mask is one of the best relics in the game IMHO.

But there's something to be said for 3 razowring jetfighters w/ dark lances. Although the jetfighters are extremely fragile at oinly 10 wounds. I would lean toward the first list.

DR:80+S++G++MB--IPw40k12#+D++++A++/fWD013R++T(T)DM+

"War is the greatest act of worship, and I perform it gladly for my Lord.... Praise Be"
-Invictus Potens, Black Templar Dreadnought 
   
Made in ca
Wicked Wych With a Whip




Which to uou like running better? The Grots or the fighters?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I've been running the list with the coven units and it's been playing real well for me just not sure if it has enough offense vs a knight list or not.
I have the models for both so that's not an issue..... Definitely like the Flayed Skull mostly for the Archon, but the extra 3" move and vehicles ignoring cover is really good. I haven't missed Agents of Vect with the first list...but I'm torn.
   
Made in ca
Wicked Wych With a Whip




Ahh. You have no kabals. And no bikes. I get tones of blasters from warrios and bikes.

The talos haywire should help.
   
Made in us
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






I agree, dissies and talos haywire should run down knights pretty effectively. Even the mandrakes will be able to chip in with their mortal wound causing shooting.

DR:80+S++G++MB--IPw40k12#+D++++A++/fWD013R++T(T)DM+

"War is the greatest act of worship, and I perform it gladly for my Lord.... Praise Be"
-Invictus Potens, Black Templar Dreadnought 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




you can use agents of vect with any list - you dont need the specific kabal to use it.
   
Made in ca
Wicked Wych With a Whip




bawlmeat wrote:
you can use agents of vect with any list - you dont need the specific kabal to use it.


Better re-read your codex. Its one Kabal only, the one that bumps you up the power from pain track.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Headlss wrote:
bawlmeat wrote:
you can use agents of vect with any list - you dont need the specific kabal to use it.


Better re-read your codex. Its one Kabal only, the one that bumps you up the power from pain track.


RAW that actually isn't true. RAI/Common sense, yes you do need a BH detachment.

However, every tourney I have seen the TO has specified that you have to have a kabal of the black heart detachment to unlock it.
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Headlss wrote:
bawlmeat wrote:
you can use agents of vect with any list - you dont need the specific kabal to use it.


Better re-read your codex. Its one Kabal only, the one that bumps you up the power from pain track.


nah mate - youd better re-read. every other kabal/cult/cabal strat actually specifies who can use it in the text. agents of vect does not.

of course, pretty much everyone is going to play it as requiring the right kabal to use it, but as its written - no it does not specify at all.
   
Made in ca
Wicked Wych With a Whip




bawlmeat wrote:
Headlss wrote:
bawlmeat wrote:
you can use agents of vect with any list - you dont need the specific kabal to use it.


Better re-read your codex. Its one Kabal only, the one that bumps you up the power from pain track.


nah mate - youd better re-read. every other kabal/cult/cabal strat actually specifies who can use it in the text. agents of vect does not.

of course, pretty much everyone is going to play it as requiring the right kabal to use it, but as its written - no it does not specify at all.


So you are claiming that even though it clearly says its a black heart strategem, you don't need any black heart units to use it?

Well ok, as written you might be right. But In that case expect your opponents to use it back on you. It doesn't say you need any dark elfs at all.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




You still have to have a dark eldar detachment in order to unlock dark eldar strategems so that is not accurate.
   
Made in ca
Wicked Wych With a Whip




Manfried wrote:
You still have to have a dark eldar detachment in order to unlock dark eldar strategems so that is not accurate.


I mean that makes sense but where does it say that?
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Headlss wrote:
Manfried wrote:
You still have to have a dark eldar detachment in order to unlock dark eldar strategems so that is not accurate.


I mean that makes sense but where does it say that?



your counterpoint is ridiculous, and you know it. youre using hyperbole to make a bad point.

its very simple: every other kabal/cult/coven specific stratagem *specifically states* in the text of the stratagem which units must be present in the army/on the tabletop in order to use the strat - agents of vect very clearly does not follow this very simple formatting rule/system seen with the other stratagems. now this is likely due to an oversight on behalf of GW, mistakes happen after all, but beyond a tourney specifically house-ruling (which apparently most are doing) that a player must have a BH detachment in order to use agents of vect, according to the rule written on the strat itself, no, you very clearly do not need to.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/20 05:25:55


 
   
Made in ca
Wicked Wych With a Whip




bawlmeat wrote:
Headlss wrote:
Manfried wrote:
You still have to have a dark eldar detachment in order to unlock dark eldar strategems so that is not accurate.


I mean that makes sense but where does it say that?



your counterpoint is ridiculous, and you know it. youre using hyperbole to make a bad point.

its very simple: every other kabal/cult/coven specific stratagem *specifically states* in the text of the stratagem which units must be present in the army/on the tabletop in order to use the strat - agents of vect very clearly does not follow this very simple formatting rule/system seen with the other stratagems. now this is likely due to an oversight on behalf of GW, mistakes happen after all, but beyond a tourney specifically house-ruling (which apparently most are doing) that a player must have a BH detachment in order to use agents of vect, according to the rule written on the strat itself, no, you very clearly do not need to.


Of course my counter point is ridculous. I think your point is ridiculous.

But you are right, as written, on that rule you don't need to have anything on the table. Thats becuase it affects your opponent and not you. So it doesn't specify what kind of model it targets. But it does clearly say its a black heart strategem.

Now since your argument is you can use black heart strategems with out black heart units, my obvious, next logical step is to say "why can't an Ultramarie army use it, they don't have any black heart units either." There is no text on that strategem that says you need dark elfs.

You think thats dumb, I agree. My "show me where it says you can't do that" comment was an appeal for someone to find the rules to prevent that. Its probably in the base rules about strategems.


Moving this to the rules fourm. I would like to know the answer but its not sbout the list anymore.


Sorry for hijacking your threat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/20 14:12:20


 
   
 
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