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So i want to finish out my blood angles. Really just trying to figure out what i need to buy. Im torn between the helvirens and warglaives. I like the idea of the mobile fire power but the warglaives fit the montra of the rest of the army. I am running two smash captians and maybe mephy. Also two inceptors and some sang guard. I really like the idea of the gallant but i think the warden is a little more flexible. Not sure how i get the turn one charge but i like the idea of a smash captian and a knight charging turn one.

I vote Warglaive and Warden.

Warden gives you flexibility. Warglaive can support your assault troops.

1 Gallant and 2 Warglaives in a Terryn Lance. Give the Gallant the Landstrider trait and an Heirloom of you choice. On full tilt, the Gallant can Advance and still charge an average of 29.5" on turn one. Even without Full Tilt, the faster Warglaives will not be far behind.

That is either a massive wrecking ball to smash vital enemy units or a terrifying distraction carnifex that your opponent will have no choice but to deal with. It's not subtle but if you want something that can match the BAs in terms of getting into the enemy's face and hitting hard on T1, that will do very nicely.

I would go with Gallant.

Gallant w/ion bulwark and heirloom of choice based off opponent. Helverins fill a gap that BA are desperate for. Warglaives suck in comparison because melta sucks.

Use hawkshroud for maximum tank factor. Forget the rest; they aren't worth it.

Thanks so far guys. I like the idea of keeping up with the rest of my force. The helvirens were there as you say to fill a gap that ba have a hard time filling. It woild be funny to outflank warglaives and full tilt a gallant. And the charge a deathcompany smash captian and the gallant turn one.

100% the warden. Any knight will already function as a distraction carnifex, wherever it is. A Gallant is forced to run at the enemy, where it will take loads of incoming damage.

The downside of that 29.5" charge is that it's miles ahead of the rest of your army where your opponent can pour all his damage into it. If all it's done is kill ~40 points worth of screen, before taking a ton of smites and rapid fire plasma, it hasn't done its job.

Instead, I'd go for a house Raven Warden. Give it a gantlet so that it can deathgrip. If your opponent uses screens then a warden can gun them down and burn them, before charging something that's actually relevant.

I'd usually go with Warglaives, though honestly with BA either would be good. Helverins are very good in the current meta, which is full of invulnerable saves. Their high volume of high damage, low-ap shooting is very efficient against stuff like Eldar paper planes. The only problem is that if any of those planes charges it, it's out of the game. This is mitigated by having blood angels hanging around, ready to charge back.

You run blood Angels, what purpose would a Gallant serve that isn't already supported by your own codex? Same with Warglaives. I feel you'd be best served by hellverins and the various shooty knights

Its simple. A melee army needs a melee knight. A house terryn gallant with armour of the sainted ion for a 2+ sv and blessed by the sacristans WLT for the titanic feet. Every unmodified wound roll of 6 will deal +1 MW. You have 15 attacks hitting on 2s.

 p5freak wrote:
Its simple. A melee army needs a melee knight. A house terryn gallant with armour of the sainted ion for a 2+ sv and blessed by the sacristans WLT for the titanic feet. Every unmodified wound roll of 6 will deal +1 MW. You have 15 attacks hitting on 2s.

I agree, take a Gallant with 2+ save, but give it Seneschal for +1 Attack, so now you’re hitting 18 times on 2+ with your Titanic Feet. And you have 6 Attacks against the big stuff with your heavy duty weapons.

 davidgr33n wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Its simple. A melee army needs a melee knight. A house terryn gallant with armour of the sainted ion for a 2+ sv and blessed by the sacristans WLT for the titanic feet. Every unmodified wound roll of 6 will deal +1 MW. You have 15 attacks hitting on 2s.

I agree, take a Gallant with 2+ save, but give it Seneschal for +1 Attack, so now you’re hitting 18 times on 2+ with your Titanic Feet. And you have 6 Attacks against the big stuff with your heavy duty weapons.

You can even have 21 attacks. There are lots of good combinations.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
You run blood Angels, what purpose would a Gallant serve that isn't already supported by your own codex? Same with Warglaives. I feel you'd be best served by hellverins and the various shooty knights

A melee unit that makes it to melee. Other BA units evaporate to shooting before they throw a single punch. Knight shooting sucks for the cost, except maybe the thermal cannon. The Warden is junk, imo.

Martel732 wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
You run blood Angels, what purpose would a Gallant serve that isn't already supported by your own codex? Same with Warglaives. I feel you'd be best served by hellverins and the various shooty knights

A melee unit that makes it to melee. Other BA units evaporate to shooting before they throw a single punch. Knight shooting sucks for the cost, except maybe the thermal cannon. The Warden is junk, imo.

Its true, BA infantry is quite squishy. But its not so bad like you say. We can re-roll failed charges, and its unlikely you will fail all charges. And we can get a 5+ FNP. We dont die so easily. But a gallant is a nice big distraction carnifex, hopefully allowing our infantry to live another turn.

It's pretty bad. 5+ fnp is not nearly enough, and takes up a relic slot. I've lost 15 dc and 8 sanguinary in one turn of shooting.

Basically it depends on whether you are looking at something to compliment your army's strengths or cover its weaknesses.

Do you go for a threat overload of dangerous charging units or do you get some supporting fire for your BAs.

Both are valid approaches and which works better may well depend on the opponents you are facing.

Mandragola wrote:
100% the warden. Any knight will already function as a distraction carnifex, wherever it is. A Gallant is forced to run at the enemy, where it will take loads of incoming damage.

The downside of that 29.5" charge is that it's miles ahead of the rest of your army where your opponent can pour all his damage into it. If all it's done is kill ~40 points worth of screen, before taking a ton of smites and rapid fire plasma, it hasn't done its job.

Instead, I'd go for a house Raven Warden. Give it a gantlet so that it can deathgrip. If your opponent uses screens then a warden can gun them down and burn them, before charging something that's actually relevant.

I'd usually go with Warglaives, though honestly with BA either would be good. Helverins are very good in the current meta, which is full of invulnerable saves. Their high volume of high damage, low-ap shooting is very efficient against stuff like Eldar paper planes. The only problem is that if any of those planes charges it, it's out of the game. This is mitigated by having blood angels hanging around, ready to charge back.

The gallent being miles away is strictly better than being close. You want to blow it up. Like really badly. An exploding gallent will win the game against the meta army choices, as they skew melee at and the gallent is good at soaking shooting. And then next turn you are dumping your blood angel murder captains into the fray

The gallent is also an overwatch soaker, which is real important in blood angels.

If you are going to include 1 knight - it should be a Castellan. If you can't afford that it should be a crusader (this might actually be a better choice because it gets a 3++ for 1 CP instead of 3).

These Knights are miles ahead of the others.

Gallant and warden are kinda meh...Choosing between the 2 I'd have to go warden in a single knight detachment. Cause you give it Missle launcher/ endless furry/ and 4++ save warlord trait and It gives you a reasonably well balanced knight for the cost. The crusader being only another 40ish points is a no brainer though. A weapon you'll never use compared to a d6 str 9 melta cannon with 36" range. Yeah - I'll take the mega melta.

It depends

Castelan is the AV shooting option if you need a tank cracker

Crusader is a more efficient CP choice and is 100pts cheaper and is better at shooting the mid T values e.g. custodes

Galant is a distraction carnifex - in terms of its cost its not making it back but it will distract your opponents shooting nicely and as cheaply as possible.

U02dah4 wrote:
It depends

Castelan is the AV shooting option if you need a tank cracker

Crusader is a more efficient CP choice and is 100pts cheaper and is better at shooting the mid T values e.g. custodes

Galant is a distraction carnifex - in terms of its cost its not making it back but it will distract your opponents shooting nicely and as cheaply as possible.

Not saying the Crusader is bad - I bring 1 every game - but Castellan is more efficient vs everything.

No it isn't as discussed on other threads the castellan is effective and optimised vs T7/T8 it is less effecrive the weaker the T value of the target- a crusader kills more guardsmen in shooting. It also has a worse WS this means that this is effectively compounded once you get into CC range. So yes it is a strong AV option no it is not strong vs everything come up against that hoard with no vehicles and your castellan strugles to do anything

The Crusader is often more points efficient against targets with an Invulnerable save (like other Knights). The higher AP of a Castellan's weapons are wasted against such targets.

 Karhedron wrote:
The Crusader is often more points efficient against targets with an Invulnerable save (like other Knights). The higher AP of a Castellan's weapons are wasted against such targets.

Shieldbreaker Missiles.

SJ