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Premise: sorry for the rant and for my english

Just one more example of how GW stands by their word of "we're redoing the game as 8th edition in order to bring balance across the board of all armies", and then pretty much turns around and begins power creeping from codex to codex once again. I'm not saying we didn't get good things with craftworlds, harlequins, and drukhari, but for every good thing we get, we also get a Nerf bat to face on something else.
In this case it's our knights, GW is thoroughly enjoying the sales on imp knights, and to not take away from those sales they are not going to make our knights equitable any time soon.

Its a shame that a classic faction like Craftworlds hasn't got any viable LoW option.

Your opinion?

It is, without argument the worst unit in the Eldar codex (Warlock conclave being a close second). Shame too because I'd like to do one as a fun centrepiece for the army. It's super expensive and its guns suck. One of those two needs fixing. With the launch of the Knight codex it's even worse.

It is a complete turd. Sadly I'm saying this as a narrative player who still won't consider it. It is so bad it'd be a serious penalty, detriment to the person fielding it.

2 things I'd like to see GW change about WKs is a points drop (between 60-100pts) and gaining Spirit Stones.
Both changes are small and could be done in Chapter Approved. Together these changes make the WK playable if not terribly competitive.

I would not be surprised if somewhere back in GW land, someone is saying "Man, those Imperial knights really sold well. We should make a Codex for Eldar knights and add another kit or two".

Something needs to be done as the wraithknight is currently a bag of crap.

They're a unit paying for its past sins in 6th and 7th edition.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're a unit paying for its past sins in 6th and 7th edition.

Which we have discussed and seem to agree is wrong. WKs should pay a points cost that is reflective of their current value, regardless of how well the did in previous editions.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're a unit paying for its past sins in 6th and 7th edition.

Pretty much. Just like Centurion Devastators (which saw a price increase despite already being overpriced), Drop Pods, and quite a few units from other codexes that I can't really name off the top of my head.

FarseerReborn wrote:

Its a shame that a classic faction like Craftworlds hasn't got any viable LoW option.

Your opinion?

There's a fair few "classic factions" who don't

 Galef wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're a unit paying for its past sins in 6th and 7th edition.

Which we have discussed and seem to agree is wrong. WKs should pay a points cost that is reflective of their current value, regardless of how well the did in previous editions.

GW has done that before and you know it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're a unit paying for its past sins in 6th and 7th edition.

Which we have discussed and seem to agree is wrong. WKs should pay a points cost that is reflective of their current value, regardless of how well the did in previous editions.

GW has done that before and you know it.

Yeah, that's what I meant. GW has done it. It is wrong that they've done it and it is wrong for them to continue doing it.
It was their mistake to make WKs so powerful in 7E, why punish the players in 8E?

Non-eldar players clearly see this as "justice", but it isn't always the player's fault. I had 3 WKs in 6E when they were simply Heavy Support MCs
I saw the potential of what could happen if they were made GMCs as so many people were wishlisting prior to the 7E codex.
I was barely able to take 1 after that or else be TFG. Heck, even taking 1 made me TFG if you read this forum.
I liked the model as got the ones I had because "at the time" they were *my* only viable anti-tank.

So I personally feel punished TWICE. First for getting 3 prior to a change that made fielding 3 impractical and Second for going down to 1 prior to a change that makes even having 1 a liability or "waste of points".
All because GW can't seem to get the rule for this amazing model correct and has a tendency to "overcorrect" once an issue becomes known to them.

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One way to protect against potential brokenness would be to make them 0-1.

They need to have their D-weapons sorted out (they're meant to be Titan/SHV killers) and be costed appropriately.

I'd expect them to be more agile than an imperial knight but more fragile.

Currently they do of course need a huge points drop. I have no idea why this didn't happen in CA 2017.

Edit: I can hazard a guess, and it's because GW hire grots instead of inquisitors...

I haven't gotten to go against one, but i did some test fights of IK vs WK, and wow do they suck. If they're going to be stomping around with out an invul save (unless they drop their guns for a shield), then their cost needs to be much lower. Or their speed faster, or something to give them a conceivable edge.

Are they any better when they've got spell effects on them? WK can at least be the target of spells, whereas IK can't.

Are the Forgeworld variants any better?

 Galef wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're a unit paying for its past sins in 6th and 7th edition.

Which we have discussed and seem to agree is wrong. WKs should pay a points cost that is reflective of their current value, regardless of how well the did in previous editions.

They're going to have to cut ties with Frontline Games to do that.

 Crimson wrote:
Are the Forgeworld variants any better?

Yes. The Skathach WK comes stock with the ability to DS, which means it avoids being alpha struck. It also has two very good weapon options: Inferno Lance (24" Heavy D6 Melta profile) and the Deathshroud Cannon (48" Heavy D6 8S / -2 AP / D3 dmg or 10" 2D6 Heavy Flamer 7S / 0AP / 1 dmg and both profiles are -4AP on 5+ wound rolls). Dropping out of DS and unloading 4D6 flamer hits is insane. It does suffer from being cost prohibitive though at 630 points with 2x Deathshroud Cannons with 2x Shuriken Cannons.

 Galef wrote:


Non-eldar players clearly see this as "justice", but it isn't always the player's fault. I had 3 WKs in 6E when they were simply Heavy Support MCs

For starters that is a pretty broad stroke to paint everyone with who doesn't play Eldar. Most of us would love to see as many different viable models from all armies so that the game has more flavor and less repetition, and so that more people have armies to play the game in general. almost nobody likes GWs over nerfing, so drop the persecution complex.


Secondly, you talk like 6E triple WK wasn't one of Eldars cheesiest builds lol. Yeah it got worse going forward, but it was not a balanced unit in 6th either

I think it deserves an invulnerable save which is speed based, just like the larger Eldar vehicles and titans. If it's weapons are as poor as they are now, it simply needs a massive price drop (the problem being they're massive models and becoming cheap and weak is a little bizarre). Regardless they just need some serious help. I hope they get it too - I'd like one as a centrepiece. We do the occasional superheavy only/vehicle style games here and it'd be a fun way to participate.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Galef wrote:


Non-eldar players clearly see this as "justice", but it isn't always the player's fault. I had 3 WKs in 6E when they were simply Heavy Support MCs

For starters that is a pretty broad stroke to paint everyone with who doesn't play Eldar. Most of us would love to see as many different viable models from all armies so that the game has more flavor and less repetition, and so that more people have armies to play the game in general. almost nobody likes GWs over nerfing, so drop the persecution complex.


Secondly, you talk like 6E triple WK wasn't one of Eldars cheesiest builds lol. Yeah it got worse going forward, but it was not a balanced unit in 6th either

My apologies, you are right. I didn't mean all Non-elder players, but rather the seemingly large amount of Eldar-haters on the Interwebz.
And yes, 6E triple WK was one of the most powerful builds (accompanied by Serpent spam), but it was nothing compared to 7E. That gap was huge

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Yeah, GW does NOT need to punish units (and therefore players) for how good a unit was in previous editions. They should aim for balance, regardless of how strong or weak something was before.

I'd be fine with erring on the side of caution on formerly strong units, but with CA and FAQs and all that, they've had plenty of chances to fine-tune units like the Wraithknight. They've simply chosen not to.

 Galef wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Galef wrote:


Non-eldar players clearly see this as "justice", but it isn't always the player's fault. I had 3 WKs in 6E when they were simply Heavy Support MCs

For starters that is a pretty broad stroke to paint everyone with who doesn't play Eldar. Most of us would love to see as many different viable models from all armies so that the game has more flavor and less repetition, and so that more people have armies to play the game in general. almost nobody likes GWs over nerfing, so drop the persecution complex.


Secondly, you talk like 6E triple WK wasn't one of Eldars cheesiest builds lol. Yeah it got worse going forward, but it was not a balanced unit in 6th either

My apologies, you are right. I didn't mean all Non-elder players, but rather the seemingly large amount of Eldar-haters on the Interwebz.
And yes, 6E triple WK was one of the most powerful builds (accompanied by Serpent spam), but it was nothing compared to 7E. That gap was huge

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No worries. I hate how GW overnerfs units, they need to focus on holding onto what works and just retuning the unit. WK is one of too many examples of them doing the opposite. I understand it's not easy but damn.

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Are the Forgeworld variants any better?

Yes. The Skathach WK comes stock with the ability to DS, which means it avoids being alpha struck. It also has two very good weapon options: Inferno Lance (24" Heavy D6 Melta profile) and the Deathshroud Cannon (48" Heavy D6 8S / -2 AP / D3 dmg or 10" 2D6 Heavy Flamer 7S / 0AP / 1 dmg and both profiles are -4AP on 5+ wound rolls). Dropping out of DS and unloading 4D6 flamer hits is insane. It does suffer from being cost prohibitive though at 630 points with 2x Deathshroud Cannons with 2x Shuriken Cannons.

They are quite neat but like the regular one come off badly against a similar costed units, as for a handful of extra points the Scorpion Tank comes with one heck of a BFG and an inv save that doesnt reduce dakka